Analysis time

I see everyone claiming this is the most smart capeshit ever, prove it. Explain the "Martha" thing, give me some examples where the visuals reflect the themes, give me something. I want you all to actually try and analyse this film and prove to me that it really deserves a second viewing.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Un2-MY0rQxs
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>he cant comprehend kino

sucks to be you, kid

It's actually quite simple: reddit hates BvS so Sup Forums likes it. These simple-minded retards literally let reddit decide how they should feel about a movie

I agree with OP, but I wanna see some views on the extended cut before writing it off completely.

batmans mom's name was martha so is superman's mom name. batman then realized he was "joe chill" and that superman was like him.

you care more about reddit than anyone ITT lmao

>knowing what reddit likes

you have to go back

OP here, yes! I'm actually really anticipating the extended/director's cut because apparently it's R-rated which gives me hope that it might be more like Watchmen (which I love, the opening sequence reminded me of the Watchmen because the Comedian was there)

/thread

its just Sup Forums contrarians and memers

There's more Clark Kent apparently, but I don't see how it will help besides better contextualising Supes' arrival at the Batmobile chase.

I'll dump the visual stuff that I have and later tonight come back to discuss it, got to walk the dog OP.

I see the Martha thing as Bruce realizing that he's on the other side of the gun that killed his father. After all, his dying words were "Martha", and they would've been Clark's last words too if he hadn't stopped.

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OP here, this looks great, thank you for that! It's 1 am where I live and I'm just in that film analysis/discussion mood

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oh I can "comprehend" kino alright, but the negative aspects of this film were so distracting that I just want people to shine a light on the positives.
and yeah this is OP.

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OP again, dang it, I was hoping for more Bruce Wayne (he was the best part of the film for me)

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The Callan Mulvey thing is just absolutely hilarious. A big slap in the face to Marvel. I have yet to see any of the BvS detractors discuss it.

Ask away, I'll come back in about an hour to join in on the convo.

there is

Damn user that really does make sense. Bruce saw himself as the murderer of his parents stopping him in his tracks. It also explains why he snapped back to his old self and woke up. It's really simple.

I genuinely loved BvS and an honestly not shit posting or just being contrarian.

The "Martha" thing isn't just 'lol we have the same mothers lets be friends'. Firstly to cover why people complain why Superman said Martha instead of my mother or whatever. I remember hearing somewhere from someone who studies psychology that in the previous scene with Superman talking to Lex on the rooftop, Lex is repeatedly saying Martha and it becomes a psychological 'conditioning' and makes sense he would use the word Martha to Bruce. "Martha Martha Martha", "If you fly away, Martha dies. If you try to save her, Martha also dies".

Onto the main point now. Saying Martha is what made Bruce pause at first and was a key word to spark his flashback. The visuals and editing order is very important in this scene. You see the spear and Batman from Superman's perspective, pointing at him. We then see in the flashback a close up of the robber's gun shooting his mother. This then cuts to Bruce as a child falling down the cave, from the light into the dark. Then most importantly, it directly cuts to a close up of Batman in real time, symbolizing his fall to what he has become now. It then goes to his father, saying with his dying breath, "Martha", just as Superman is doing now. It is now that Batman realises he has become the very person that ruined his life. He is now the criminal in the alley, holding the weapon over an innocent person. Lois runs in and claims that Martha is his mothers name which shows that Superman has a human side to him. It ends with Batman throwing the spear away in disgust (shown by his facial expressions) because of what he has become.

Finally, we get Batman promising to Superman that Martha will not die tonight. He is finally getting his chance to save Martha, something he couldn't do when he was younger.

It is all here in this video from 4:38 onward if you want to check everything I said.

youtube.com/watch?v=Un2-MY0rQxs

OP here, thank you so much for these images/analyses, these are great!

You sir, are a genius. This is the perfect explanation and exactly what I was looking for, so thank you so much! I can appreciate that scene a lot more now thanks to you. Oh and yeah, this is OP.

i don't know about stress disorders and shit like that, but i took the martha thing as bruce being literally triggered

to me it's obvious that the flashbacks the audience sees are what's going through bruce's head, images flooding through his mind and so on
but i don't know enough about psychology to comment on it also being a part of bruce being a fucked up dude ie the pills the drinking the nightmares

Haven't bothered to look at the images, but there are some parallels between this and the gilgamesh myth:
>Batman is Gilgamesh. A powerful king.
>Superman is Enkidu. A powerful being destined to fight him, but ends up being friends with his rival.
>Lex has the same role as the gods from this poem. He sends a Superman/Enkidu to fight Batman/Gilgamesh, but this ends up backfiring.
>Lex kills Supes like the gods killed Enkidu.
>After this, Batman decides to search the other metahumans, like Gilgamesh trying to fing inmortality.
>Doomsday is the giant bull.
Fun fact: A militar project called "Gilgamesh" created Bane.

No worries. If you have any questions feel free to ask. When I first watched the movie I was hesitant to decide how I felt about it and thus went back for a second time (I've actually seen it 5 times in total now). I only understood this Martha scene on the second viewing. From then on I realised this is a movie that doesn't spoon feed you everything with exposition and random explanations. Instead, it goes back to the old-school style of film making which is all about using visuals to tell a story and letting the audience interpret and figure it out themselves - which is what led to me loving this movie.

Muh jesus imagery

>he cannot understand the most basic metaphors and symbolism

You should stick to Transformers.

Well I believe this Bruce is completely fucked up from whatever shit he went through in his past - exploded Wayne Manor and beat up Robin suit - guess the Joker got to him good. We can see Bruce is tormented by this Batman persona with his nightmare and one of the opening lines something like "in the dream, it took me into the light, a beautiful lie", referencing this alter ego he developed to deal with his shitty childhood. It is also reflected in his completely brutal methods (as an example the branding is very important in this movie for Bruce's character arc). He also believes "We're criminals Alfred, always have been" as well as thinking that killing Superman will be the only thing in life he does that matters - see the Moby Dick picture someone posted previously.
Yes this Batman was fucked up due to his 20 years in Gotham, but by the end he is redeemed. Batman may have won the physical battle, but Superman won the moral one.

OP here. Thanks again, you're great and seem like a really smart guy - do you have a YouTube channel by any chance? If I had to ask about another scene it would have to be the scene in which Superman catches Lois - how did he know, how could he be so fast? If he could prevent Lois from falling to her death so fast then why didn't he do the same when those reporters got killed at the beginning? It's cool if you don't have an explanation or anything, it's just that this scene is the most annoying to me because it's the most cliché superhero moment ever in what seems to be a more "deep" film... unless that scene has some deeper meaning that I completely missed too :P

+1 for all the autism it took to make this, -10000 for being a perpetual manchild and analyzing a baby--tier superhero movie. And not even a good superhero movie at that.

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>manchildren genuienly think there's thematic weight and intelligent ideas in their mass-produced conveyer belt products marketed to little kids
>literally men in spandex hitting each other

Wow, I've literally seen this on like 5 other Batman v Superman threads. Fuck off.

Nah no Youtube channel I stay away from all that. When Superman catches Lois is sort of a culmination of a few things. First you have to remember Superman has super hearing so he can obviously focus in on Lois' location if she's in trouble. This is shown in the first scene with Africa (literally flies across the world), but also with the Doomsday fight where hse is underwater banging on the stone, you can see he hears that. It is also why he couldn't find Martha because she was gagged up not moving. He also has super speed (think how fast he managed to get across the world at the end of Man of Steel).

More importantly, you can see that one of the previous scenes, Clark has that discussion with his father (ghost/vision?). In this scene Pa Kent tells him the story of how although he thought he did the right thing protecting his farm, he ended up unintentionally hurting others in the process which caused him to have nightmares about the horses dying. It is then that he says to Clark that the nightmares went away when Pa met Clark's mother. Leading Clark to realise he needs Lois in his life to be happy. This scene is what makes Clark come back to Metropolis, so him saving Lois wasn't so implausible because he was back already. He came back for her and it just so happens she needed his help at the time.

Other than that, yes he did get a bit lucky in timing.

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Does it trigger you, kiddo?

/thread
we need to be more like reddit

Sorry I forgot the reporters thing. I'm assuming you mean the bombing scene. At that point he wasn't looking for the bomb. He didn't know there was a bomb because he is still new and is quite sloppy which he later discusses with Lois on the balcony in saying "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". It's actually brilliant because this is foreshadowed in the Africa scene with Lois when she says to the African guy "I'm sorry, I didn't know." and he replies with "Ignorance is not innocence". Something that is directly related to the bombing!

But yeah because he didn't realise there was a bomb, he wasn't able to do anything by the time it went off. He doesn't have the Flash level of speed unfortunately.

The 2nd time you watch it, you realize Henry Cavill is playing Clark Kent/Superman is playing God, and Ben Affleck is playing Batman is playing the Devil, who with the help of God, destroys sin and becomes a good man again. That's the hope Jor El talks to Clark about in Man of Steel, so it wraps up the story nicely.

So you have fictional characters playing historically fictional characters. I'm talking going back thousands of years.

But they also allude to other works of art where fictional characters represented similar concepts. Moby Dick, the Wizard of Oz, Zorro, etc. There's also a lot of pop culture references that are still being uncovered. One thing I never see anyone mention is that Luthor is heavily influenced by Breaking Bad (ding ding ding ding, using a wheelchair to create and explosive device, etc.)

So the real emotional weight kicks in when Superman dies, because you realize not only do God's prophets make sacrifices, but God himself does as well. He chooses to sacrifice himself for the greater good of humanity, and HOPE they follow his ways to make the world a better place.

Snyder's touch is very subtle, but masterful IMO. In some situations, we see Superman viewing Batman as the Devil, and vice versa, we see Batman viewing Superman as God (for instance, the Martha scene).

It's woven together very well. It's a shame nobody really gives a shit, focusing on things like Wonder Woman. Who ironically, couldn't give a shit about Batman or Superman as well. It's like Snyder creates things knowing exactly how people will react to it. He's a smart man, or, smarter than your average faggot on this board would lead you to believe.

>Explain the "Martha" thing
It was Superman manipulating Batman
>scene starts "Bruce we need to talk"
>fight happens
>"you're killing Martha"

Clark studied up on Wayne and learned about a very public murder and realized his mother had the same name. It wasn't random at all. It was designed to give Batman pause long enough for Sups power to kick back in. He was just lucky Lois came along as well.

People claiming that scene is some amazing citizen kane bullshit and believing it are retarded but those who couldn't understand something that basic are even more so.

Well if YouTube isn't your thing then you need some other outlet to shine your amazing analytical skills - honestly I think you deserve praise dude. Thanks for trying to explain the scene, I still think it's flawed and super cliché but at least it somewhat makes sense. It's like 2 am here so I'm super tired and can't think of another scene to ask you about, so if you wanna post anything else interesting about the film or its themes or whatever then (obviously) feel free to man. Once again, thank you for all this!

Nailed it.

Yeah it is cliche but that doesn't bother me because Superman saving Lois happens all the god damn time in the comics so it is no issue for me personally. Every movie has its flaws and I think it is so stupid how much people shit on BvS so I just want it to get the recognition it deserves. I am not one of these 'Marvel vs DC' shills but good god I can absolutely butcher Civil War and yet so many people praise that movie despite having terribly worse flaws than BvS.

OP here, thank you for this. To be honest I don't really care for the comparisons between religion but I will admit they're quite interesting if you take everything into consideration. Now that you brought up Wonder Woman... does she actually serve any deeper meaning to the film? I'll be honest, I'm starting to appreciate the film A LOT more just by reading everything in this thread.

I think I should stop saying "OP here", it's pretty obvious when it's me hahaha, but yeah I agree so much! I went to see 'Civil War' recently and was quite disappointed, I don't see how anyone could be "Team Iron Man" as Iron Man's side makes no sense whatsoever... the serious scenes are laughable but I will admit I enjoyed the airport battle quite a lot - although the characters were shoehorned in as fuck.

Not the person you're replying to but I'm Wonder Woman isn't necessarily in the movie for some symbolic reason that I can see, I'm sure someone out there is able to come up with something (I don't care about the religious stuff either, but it is part of the history of these characters in the comics). I guess you could say stuff like she is the voice of love, reason and compassion in the Justice League, something that other character's don't necessarily have, but we won't see that until future movies. She is in there to naturally set the universe up for the coming movies. You probably knew this already but she was there due to Lex's research into his metahuman thesis (which was also critical for the whole Superman hate/kryptonite story) so it felt logical she would get dragged into it if she wants to keep her identity a secret.

On-the-nose symbolism and visual references don't really make up for the awful script, dismal characters and the editing and tonal issues

You can gather up as much evidence as you want, but it doesn't fix the foundation of this whole mess.

Once again thank you, you really are great. But damn, you just reminded me of that idiotic sequence... why the hell did all those files have logos? I was actually laughing in the cinema because the set up for The Justice League is literally Batman and Wonder Woman chatting like "ayy lol look at these super secret files lex has, he even made logos for them" - what the heck was up with that? Hahaha

Personally, I think there *is* something semi-mystical going on with Diana in the movie. Notice how she always pauses and makes sure that Bruce is seeing her. I think there may be some sort of significance to who it is that forms the league. She came to check out Lex, wasn't impressed, and, at least it appeared so to me, was waiting on Bruce to put the pieces together for himself.

I'm betting that plays into something in her solo film.

kek, this is new

so people who disagree with your opinion about capeshit are being paid off by the jews?

Because Lex's real plan was to form the League to fight off the "alien menace" - whichever of Clark and Doomsday survived.

He was going to commercially "brand" his pocket heroes at some point. Notice any files missing?

holy shit, how can one director be so subtle and brilliant?

Do you think he browses Sup Forums? I wonder if he read my analysis of his film.

All those things you just complained about are subjective really.

Awful script? It was pretty damn great to me. So many quotable lines and lines that actually had meaning behind them. Big step up from MoS particularly.

Dismal characters? I don't know who you're talking about really. I cared for most of the characters and loved Lex, I didn't come into it expecting a particular character to act a certain way. Yet I can understand why people hated him, once again, subjective.

Editing, yes this is one of my issues but really it just boiled down to switching a couple scenes around and throwing in some more establishing shots. At least the in-scene editing between lines and fight scenes were edited fine.

Tonal, subjective. I enjoyed seeing a dialogue heavy first half which really deconstructed the core of these characters and why they were so tormented. Yet I know others may not like it, just as I hated the tone of most of Civil War.

Heh, I have no idea, but sometimes I suspect either he does, or knows others that do.

I recognize the symbols for Wonder Woman, Captain America, and Flash, but whats the upsidedown V on the far right?

I agree with you.

>"No man in the sky ever came down to save me from my father's fists and abominations."

How about your own, Lex? That good enough?

I'm glad you enjoyed the movie.

That's Aquaman. Notice how neither Superman or the Batman have a file? Bruce removing his own before forwarding them on to Diana makes sense, but why would he remove Superman's? My guess is that they weren't there to remove in the first place, because Lex never included them in his "League," as he planned on one of them being dead and the other one a wanted murderer.

Logos are complaints I see about BvS but it seems he didn't create them. Wonder Woman has the W sign in her armour on the photo Lex has of her. The Flash, when you look at his file names that briefly appear on the screen, one of them is 'the red streak'. This is the name the media first gives to Flash because that's all people see of him. So it seems Flash is already a hero (with the red suit) and thus probably already has this logo. As for Cyborg and Aquaman? Those I'm not too sure on but I don't care. I'm an engineer and I've worked at a company that used logos for different projects. Is it strange and unconventional? Yes definitely. But then again so is Lex and it wouldn't surprise me if he did it even to mock them because thats what he does.

Once again though, such a small thing that has nothing to do with the plot really, whether there are logos or not does nothing to the story.

But also as shows, probably Snyder being a cheeky bastard.

>Captain America