Iggy Azalea

Is she the first musician ever to have a career ruined because of cultural appropriation?
Extra question: Is cultural appropriation a serious problem or a meme?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_drum#Use_in_popular_music
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>dude lets celebrate diversity
>but don't you dare use aesthetics created by my fellow niggers

Her career was ruined because people realized she was shit.

Cultural Appropriation is mostly a college leftard meme.

its a shit meme, if you follow it through you end up with no assimilation, rival cultures, sectarianism, etc
no idea how libs got tricked into peddling it

>Her career was ruined because people realized she was shit.
She is shit, but many people listen to shit music through their whole life without a problem. Iggy was heavily attacked because of the cult appropriation accusations

how was her career ruined? what happened?

I don't think cultural appropriation is a problem...

If someone is offended and depressed over cultural appropriation, the initial reaction might be to say cultural appropriation is a problem but I think there is obviously deeper issues to explore if that's the case... Getting rid of cultural appropriation just seems to me like treating a symptom rather than a problem

cultural appropriation...sounds like they want to place IP laws on *everything*...are they communists/anarchists or not?

it's old news...
check google

OP lives in an echo chamber.

how so? she was trashed by every major music publication and was probably the most hated musician on earth at some point (maybe #2 after Kanye)

She doesn't have enough talent to redeem her from this criticism. I only see shitty White Hip Hop artists getting trashed for cultural appropriation. I haven't seen Action Bronson or Eminem getting shit on for anything other than misogyny, which hasn't exactly killed their careers.

Cultural appropriation is only bad if you're willfully ignorant of the source or make fun of the source while profitting off of it (which she did)

she fell out of fame because she's the worst pop rapper of this decade bar none

This.

She was essentially mocking it with how shitty she was.

Someone like Eminem and Aesop Rock understand the culture and they never get criticized for "appropriation". Keep in mind Iggy is also australian

Cultural appropriation is a meme coming from the American academia.
I can see a problem when you caricaturize something like African culture in a offensive manner, without irony (making a commercial song going like "OOMGA BOOMGA lol" for example).
But if you just want make a song with a talking drum and a sabar, how you get "the consent of the members of the originating culture" ? And isn't rock music "cultural appropriation" at its core since it's African rhythms with European instrumentation ? Should we stop listening to any kind of popular music then ?
This is the kind of nonsense only American liberals on steroids could create.

>69928936
Liberals != Anarchists and communists

>But if you just want make a song with a talking drum and a sabar
Why would you want to do this if you weren't in that culture?

>make fun of the source while profitting off of it
how did she make fun os southern hip-hop?
please have in mind she lived in florida for five years and was actually involved in the scene. this isn't a total outsider trying to mimick southern black woman attitude

>And isn't rock music "cultural appropriation" at its core since it's African rhythms with European instrumentation ?
The first rock artists were black.

>I can see a problem when you caricaturize something like African culture in a offensive manner

Which is almost exactly what Iggy azalea is. Plenty of white artists make rap albums just fine

>But if you just want make a song with a talking drum and a sabar

No one cares about this

>rock music

The history of rock music is in fact rooted in racism and cultural appropriation, it's important to understand that, but that doesn't mean stop listening to Elvis or whatever.

Appropriating other people's aesthetic tastes has to be the most oppressive thing in the world

>Which is almost exactly what Iggy azalea is
No it isn't. Her music is in no way a caricature, it's just bad

I don't have a problem with her but I can see why people would. She's a white girl from Australia (land of racists) doing a whole over the top black accent. On top of it, she has a HUGE history of racist comments on twitter and the likes.

She only had one hit.

Oh the "talking drum and a sabar" is referencing something she actually did?

>she has a HUGE history of racist comments on twitter and the likes.
is she /ourguy/?

Because talking drums sound great and they haven't been used a lot in popular music up until this point ?

Whoops meant to reply to

No Sup Forums is a liberal board

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_drum#Use_in_popular_music

Maybe because it sounds cool to them? Music is just sounds and feelings, and "cultural appropriation" shouldn't interfere with artistic endeavors (unless the artist is genuinely hateful or wishes to use the instruments in a way that overtly depicts the culture in a mocking fashion, which is unlikely in serious artistic circles). If an instrument functions to fulfill an artistic vision, the artist should not be confined from the use of that instrument. The arrangements on Have One On Me by Joanna Newsom employ many Balkan and Turkish instruments, ambient musician Jon Hassell employs mbira and talking drum in Vernal Equinox, and countless other musicians borrow from different cultures to create the feeling they wish evoke in the listener. To extend the concept of cultural appropriation to restrict artistic style is simply excessive and ridiculous.

The fact that there is a section collecting the dozen of uses of it in non-Western African music is telling.
The TR-808 and the bass guitar Wikipedia pages doesn't have a "Use in popular music" section.

>Maybe because it sounds cool to them?
Why would it? They arent a part of that culture
>Music is just sounds and feelings
There are always reasons for the feelings
>To extend the concept of cultural appropriation to restrict artistic style is simply excessive and ridiculous.
Not if the artist has no place using those cultures to their benefit without context.
Not sure your point of this.

>Music is just sounds and feelings, and "cultural appropriation" shouldn't interfere with artistic endeavors

no one is saying that

>The arrangements on Have One On Me by Joanna Newsom employ many Balkan and Turkish instruments

And that's perfectly fine because she's not making a mockery of the culture and is being earnest by including them in.

Iggy Azelea is a dumb, racist, priviledged white bitch from Australia that doesn't understand the slightest thing about Black or American culture and how sensitive we are about it. She thinks she can waltz in put on a fake southern accent, disrespect other races, shake her ass and make money.

Not being apart of a culture doesn't restrict someone from enjoying the sound of an instrument. The artist is borrowing from the culture to pursue an artistic goal. Why would an artist place boundaries on what they wish to create because certain elements are taken from somewhere else?

>Not being apart of a culture doesn't restrict someone from enjoying the sound of an instrument
Why would you enjoy it?
>The artist is borrowing from the culture to pursue an artistic goal
Hence it's cultural appropriation
>Why would an artist place boundaries on what they wish to create because certain elements are taken from somewhere else?
Because it would be cultural appropriation

>Why would it? They arent a part of that culture
How do explain that touaregs are using electric guitars then ? It's not part of their original culture, it's an American thing.
Cultures aren't static little things.

>Not sure your point of this.
My point is that those few examples aren't a lot. The TR-808 is so used that its Wikipedia page doesn't need to state that Cocteau Twins used it on their first album.

>How do explain that
If it's your point of view, you should be able to explain it. it's not my job
>The TR-808 is so used that its Wikipedia page doesn't need to state that Cocteau Twins used it on their first album.
That's because that is an object not tied to a culture's belief or traditions.

Do you want people to have their specific kind of music according to their ethnicity and skin color in a segregated world, with no exchange allowed between them ? Are you a white nationalist ? You sound like one with a liberal vocabulary.

>Why would you enjoy it?

Why does anyone enjoy a certain sound? Is there any answer to that question? At the end of the day, music is still music, despite the culture it comes from. The sound of a talking drum can be just as enjoyable as that of an electric guitar to any given person, no matter where they are from.

>Because it would be cultural appropriation

I understand that "cultural appropriation" entails the use of an element derived from a culture without that culture's permission. What is the negative consequence of cultural appropriation in an artistic setting if there is no ill-intent? The use of an instrument should be dependent on its timbre and the artist's vision, not its place of origin.

Your queer black muslim intersectional feminist echo chamber is calling for you.

>with no exchange allowed between them
Do you know what an exchange is? How would this other culture benefit form some whitey stealing their ideas?
>Why does anyone enjoy a certain sound?
If it's your point of view, you should be able to explain it. it's not my job
>Is there any answer to that question?
I am asking you this. What is your answer?
>music is still music
It isn't. Do you also think words are just words?
>the sound of a talking drum can be just as enjoyable as that of an electric guitar to any given person
Why? if you can't tell me, it's not true.
>What is the negative consequence of cultural appropriation in an artistic setting if there is no ill-intent?
Is selfishness truly not ill-intent?
>The use of an instrument should be dependent on its timbre and the artist's vision, not its place of origin.
An artist's visions is guided by cultural norms, so this is a moot point.

Well, they use electric guitars just because they sound nice, like talking drums.
But I'm more interested in your point of view, because according to you, there was no point for them to use these guitars since it wasn't part of their culture till now.

Please refrain from ad hominem attacks. It weakens your argument.

It's surprising the thread has got this far without someone posting a pic of her ass

I bet u eat dah bootie bitch

Delivered

>Well, they use electric guitars just because they sound nice, like talking drums.
Why do they "sound nice"? What's nice about it, specifically?

Do you really think an artist, when making music, says
>Oh this sounds nice!

>there was no point for them to use these guitars since it wasn't part of their culture till now.
Them who?

Why does this chick look like Lindsey from Arrested Development

>Why do they "sound nice"? What's nice about it, specifically?
I don't know, ask the touaregs. It has something to do with the timbre and harmonics it generate.

>Do you really think an artist, when making music, says
>>Oh this sounds nice!
I'm a musician and that's literally what I do when I'm tweaking my synths.

>Them who ?
The touaregs. You know, Tinariwen and all.

>I don't know
Nice argument
>I'm a musician and that's literally what I do when I'm tweaking my synths
You don't sound like a very good musician if your art is reduced to simply "it's nice"
>The touaregs
I am not familiar. Who are they?

>if you can't tell me, it's not true.
What is this bizarre logic? If you're asking me to explain why people psychologically enjoy different timbres, you're asking for an argument that talks in circles ad-nauseum.

>Is selfishness truly not ill-intent?
It is not selfishness to use a certain sound in a piece of art. Nothing is stolen.

>An artist's visions is guided by cultural norms, so this is a moot point.

Not only is the reasoning of this statement non-sequitur, the statement itself is incorrect. Artistic vision is rarely guided by cultural norms, and even if it was, why would that render my point invalid? I stated that the use of an instrument should depend on its sound, which holds true despite cultural influence on art. The culture from which an instrument is derived does not significantly influence the feeling evoked by a sound. At a surface level, a sound can make one think of a specific culture, but sounds can be used in a wide variety of different contexts.

This argument has continued long enough, so this is my last word on the subject. Thank you for the discussion though.

There is a YUUUGE difference between iggy azalea rapping and the beastie boys.

Iggy talks and raps like a black chick from Atlanta. She's a white girl from Australia. She may as well be shucking and jiving on stage.

The beastie boys sound like they are white boys from Brooklyn. They may be rappers, but they mix their own cultural past with the medium. They don't act like Lil Wayne.

Iggy has basically copied, in all possible ways, the sound of a black woman from the south. She is stealing, the beastie boys are incorporating, that's the difference and the reason why black people think Iggy is a problem and Ad-Rock is a rap god.

And no, cultural appropriation isn't a huge problem, but it does diminish the identities of minority populations who are trying to cling onto their own culture

of course cultural appropriation is a problem. what a stupid question.

Her career was never hot, she just had some big singles bouyed by major features and heavy label promotion. People only thought she was big because Rita Ora carried Black Widow and Charli XCX carried Fancy. She is a classic example of a failed industry plant.

Hopefully she's smart enough to invest in some high yield Index funds.

Otherwise it's back to STRAYA CUNT

Don't blame Iggy, I'd pretend to be someone else too if I came from a shithole like Australia

dude you are totally missing the point. Black people don't care if white people rap or enjoy hood culture, they get offended when they completely rip-off a cultural identity and then act smug when they get shit for it. Iggy totally adopted a black southern woman way of speech despite being from goddamn Australia, and was a bitch when she was criticized for it

smudging cultures is natural, totally copying one is weird and to many, offensive

I think that black people should stop culturally appropriating computers we invented to make beats on software we designed.

>we

Jews aren't white

I'd cum in that tbqh

>Nice argument
>ignore the next part where I mention timbre and harmonics

>You don't sound like a very good musician if your art is reduced to simply "it's nice"
I was talking synths and timbres, andwhy you would use one instrument in one song. And you obviously never programmed one before.

>I am not familiar. Who are they?
Use this thing called Google.

Nice bait. I think I fell for one similar to it before, I'm pretty sure it was you too

>we

Are you a little Asian kid?

Iggy would have never lost her fame if she was any good. Nobody actually liked her. The cultural appropriation accusations (in her case they were valid) were the spark, but her actual terrible rapping and fake accent is what really did her in. The music industry doesn't give a fuck about cultural appropriation, if she had a fanbase and could sell out concerts she would still be all over the radio. Best example is Justin Bieber, he has been despised on the internet his whole career, but his name prints money so he stays.

the fuck are you on about

btw it becomes a "we" as a collective race when blacks say "you stole a culture WE invented"

Charles Babbage wasn't a jew soooo

>high yield index fund

You wot m8

Normally I think "cultural appropriation" is horseshit but in this case it was so extreme that I can understand why people were annoyed. What she did is basically the equivalent of a black guy dressing up like pic related, bleaching his skin, flying to Dublin and trying to make a career singing traditional Irish Sea shanties in a thick, fake brogue. Also, imagine that this black guy had no talent, a generally prissy attitude and a habit of starting shit with actual, authentic Irish musicians. This is basically Iggy Azelia.

basically this

this nigga gets it

probs a combo of that "freestyle" clip from her concert and her sounding like a bit too much like nicki minaj

>Her career was ruined because people realized she was shit.
No, her career was ruined because her time was up.

People like her are completely disposable to the music industry.

it was a meme career to begin with

>hey look at me I sound like shit but I have a gigantic ass

Iggy's not even that bad: Fancy is a tune. The New Classic had admittedly more bad songs than good but it's not like she's killing music or any of that shit

Don't belong to them.

not an argument

>is the sky purple?
>not an argument

false analogy

not an argument

LOL
U ARE THE THICKEST M8
seriously bud, take a break from all that thinking, you deserve it!

you still haven't explained how cultural appropriation is a problem :^)

>What is this bizarre logic
Well you made a claim. If you can't explain it, well, you should probably discard it. I might as well tell you that there are wild red and orange zebras in Austria.
>you're asking for an argument that talks in circles ad-nauseum.
Sounds to me like you've built an argument with circular logic. Oh well
>It is not selfishness to use a certain sound in a piece of art
Art exists for selfish reasons, so this is not relevant
>Not only is the reasoning of this statement non-sequitur
You don't seem to know what a non sequitur is.
>Artistic vision is rarely guided by cultural norms
Incorrect.
>why would that render my point invalid
You mean why did you make an argument on a faulty premise? Ask your self that.
>I stated that the use of an instrument should depend on its sound,
Ok...
>which holds true despite cultural influence on art.
...*except* that one's perception of the value of the sound depends on your construct shaped by your culture. Do you understand now?

I doubt it.
>ignore the next part where I mention timbre and harmonics
You mean the part where you didn't answer my question? Tossing out two buzzwords you read somewhere won't answer it
>And you obviously never programmed one before.
Oh are you a >twing tang kinda guy? kys
>Use this thing called Google.
Not an argument. Try again.

I'm not going to, you fucking toddler, because I wasn't asked and I don't owe it to your dumb ass.

then refrain from posting, shithat

I don't have to explain everything for little kids like you. It's not an obligation.

How about, since you're the one with opinions dissenting from secular societal norms, you explain why it isn't?

I'm not the one who made any claims. The burden of proof is on now please stop shitting this thread with your autism

I was the one who posted that, asshole.
I was answering OP's objectively idiotic question.
You are being a feckless prick.

>I was answering OP's objectively idiotic question
>ugh why are you even asking? It's evident!
>I don't have to explain anything, I'm just always right
Either provide a substantial opinion or leave, sissy

You're an embarrassment desu and a garbage human being.
You ought to be be ashamed, though I don't expect fifth graders like you to fully understand the concept of shame yet.

She lucked out with one hit and then her second album bombed cause she has no talent

If she'd had followup hits all the SJW butt hurt in the world wouldn't have stopped her

>ctrl+F 'exoticism'
>0 results
For a thread with a giant debate about cultural appropriation, it's surprising that no one addressed the key point. If you're a musical artist and you use instruments from another culture, it's very easy to fall into the mindset that you're using them because you want your song to sound 'exotic' which can unload a shit ton of (negative) connotations on that culture, depending on how you make it. Take for an example, the paintings of Paul Gauguin who equivalated the 'exotic' Tahitian culture with free sexuality (read his journals if you want to see his rape-y view on Tahitian women) and showed it through several paintings of naked women and vivid, sensual colors. (For the record, I do enjoy Gauguin's paintings)

What I think this user is trying to get at is that if you like the sound of an African drum, ask yourself why. Is it because it sounds refreshing to the ear because you haven't heard it before? Nothing wrong with that, there's no harm in learning about other cultures. Is it because it evokes feelings of a primitive lifestyle much different than a Western-centric first world country? Well, that's when it becomes a problem. No one wants their culture to be reduced to a couple of adjectives.

Obviously no one wants to go through a moral monologue every time they hear a hammered dulcimer, but more often than not the "problematic" stuff makes itself very clear (see: Iggy Azalea).

shit meme, because non-whites rely on white inventions

>inb4 "muslim inventors"
gj, you just destroyed your own argument.

I'll never understand that outrage. Everybody fucking "culturally appropriates" now with all that dumb ghetto culture shit

people seem to forget that Macklemore, Vanilla Ice, and Snow exist. Also white artists making traditionally African or Afro-descendant music who made it really big, then faded into obscurity

>one use of a foreign instrument to evoke feelings in the context of a song through associations with the instrument's native culture = reducing that culture to just that one stereotype forever and ever

Could this cultural appropriation meme be any more retarded?

lol no. By that logic we should be bowing down to Jews. And the only reason you have a computer is because a muslim invented algebra.

Taking actual pride in one's race is probably the lowest of the low.

>inb4 b-but black people

Black people have been subjugated and oppressed for so long. Black pride is saying that it's okay to be black, unlike white pride, which is about hatred.

>>reddit

>speaks with australian accent
>goes deep south black female accent when rapping
wew lad youre a memer

youtube.com/watch?v=KVGRN7Z7T1A
it wasn't that bad

You just reduced my argument to the most radical situation and showed why that radical situation is flawed.

All I'm saying is that if you go in with the mindset of reducing a culture to a stereotype, then that's what you're gonna get. There's nothing inherently wrong with using instruments from other cultures. Judge for yourself when someone takes it too far.

>Is cultural appropriation a serious problem or a meme

It's a meme that people made into a serious problem for no reason other than to get more opportunities to virtue signal.