a modulation works when it fits the form. Chromatic passing tones without functional meaning sound more Mozartish that romantic. For romantic sound you need a functional dimension.
Austin Lee
having what (since i'm not sure how to analyse them) are pretty much whole passing chromatic chords in the harmony is not very mozartish (though i know what you mean in a melodic sense)
how do the late romantic composers create that constantly falling sound and is there a system behind when to borrow which chords from parallel keys or what
Juan Howard
I'm not sure if I get what you're talking about, but one tool romantic composers often use are diminished chords, meaning chords that are built by three minor thirds. If you put another third on top you get back to the root tone, so the chord is permutative. In addition it consists of two tritones which gives it a strong leading quality. So you have a chord that is very vague and can change it's tonality ad lib, and it has a strong urge to solution, this makes it possible to form passages that have a drive but leave the listener in doubt
Asher Morris
i'm just asking if there's any logic to /which/ non-diatonic diminished chords to employ and /when/, among other tools they use
i can tell which chords they're using in which contexts but i'm not quite sure why
Aaron Price
that's the point, you can use whatever chord you like, you just have to dissolve the leading tones correctly. But since you can always use the enharmonic equivalent you have a virtually infinite pool of diminished chords
Isaac Foster
>logic :(
Jaxson Barnes
i wont be disappointed if there isn't one, but if there is i want to know it
Juan Scott
don't listen to this guy he doesn't know what he's talking about
late romantic harmony explores pan-triadic and chromatic relationships that often have nothing to do with classical functionality
Camden Reyes
Any tips on how to differentiate a sentence from a period?
Christian Morgan
that's not typical for the romantic era, it's already used commonly by Beethoven and Schubert
Samuel Mitchell
echoeing a motif adds a bar
Jayden Barnes
being happy about a /comp/ thread turned into accepting that it's already dead. No wonder these threads come up so rarely
>Beethoven No. >Schubert Yes, but chromatic relationships in Schubert are spaced out and filled in between by classically functional passages. That's what makes him early romantic as opposed to Liszt or even later, Strauss who juxtaposed chromatically related harmonies as often as they felt.
Bentley Clark
>No citation needed just from the top of my head: beginning of Waldstein sonata, development section of 25th sonata, third movement of 5th symphony
>chromatically related what is that even supposed to mean?
Cooper Cox
>what is that even supposed to mean? It means related in non-diatonic ways. Maybe it's related by voice-leading distance, maybe it's through an augmented chord, maybe it's enharmonic. *Those* are among the romantic techniques the guy above was asking about, not "do what you feel" or "try using a diminished chord"
Grayson Rodriguez
i don't know, in my opinion romantic music is still based on diatonic thinking. In the late romantic era it began to dissolve, but with it the romantic music faded. To your other point: either something is related or it's separated. As you describe it it's rather chromatically separated. The thing about romantic music is pretending to be non-diatonic while still being it, that's where the heavy use of diminished chords comes from. It actually covers all your points: voice leading and enharmonic
Grayson Jenkins
You're not wrong, you're just simplifying it to the point of being almost wrong. The lecturers at the Paris Conservatoire weren't standing at the front of class saying "just do what feels good because we're Romantics". There are specific harmonic techniques and it's misleading to say they are based on caprice.
To the guy who originally asked the question, if you're still here read about augmented chords, I promise they are exactly what you're looking for. I know a few good books if you're interested.
Eli Turner
not the other guy, but aren't augmented chords more typical for impressionism, since they don't have any function at all?
Kayden Williams
They have no classical function, yeah, but their "Romantic" function if you will, is to connect six different tonalities within a single chromatic step. Schubert did this all the time as mentioned above, though between his augmented relationships he wrote traditionally functional progressions.
There is way more to the augmented chord, but that's one of the general ideas of the thing.
Ian Davis
that's pretty interesting, but isn't this the exact same thing a diminished chord does, only that the diminished chords consists of two tritones and can therefore be used as a dominant chord?
Nathan Clark
>therefore be used as a dominant chord That's the point, is that augmented chords help you get to new tonalities, or at least new harmonies without suggesting classical-functional dominants. The fifth relation of classical harmony (and its suggestion via a diminished chord) is too heavy and just doesn't sound very "Romantic". So the logic behind the augmented chord has nothing to do with function and has only to do with semitonal distance, which is what gives it that very subtle "sliding" harmonic feeling that people often associate with Romanticism.
Blake Morgan
>that very subtle "sliding" harmonic feeling that people often associate with Romanticism.
or, as he described it here >that constantly falling sound
Cameron Hernandez
that's interesting
Caleb Brown
do you by any chance know what device Dukas uses in the beginning of the sorcerer's apprentice? It's a falling sequence of the kind I could imagine the other user had in mind
