Opinion on the loudness war?

opinion on the loudness war?
sitting here pissed off
fuel my rage

What happened in 1999 other than Smash Mouth

...

grow up

man i just want music to be dynamic without making my ears bleed ya feel me?

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no one cares except for you

Implying you don't automatically turn up music with high dynamic range.

of course i do, thats how you hear the range

boi, this

that's also how you make your ears bleed. If you turn up the volume to hear the quiet passages, the loud passage be too loud to bare.

no no no no
quiet parts stay quiet
loud parts stay loud
at halfway volume on amp
new music all loud or too quiet to hear
baka

Streaming services are starting to normalize songs by "loudness" so maybe eventually it will go away

>what is percieved loudness

How will that change anything?

if a song is constant clipping even if you turn it down to a reasonable level it just doesnt compare to something recorded properly

>new music all loud or too quiet to hear
at half way volume new music is half way volume. neither too loud or too quiet. thats what compression means.

Well loudness is different from volume, idk how to explain just look it up.

maybe on an iphone it is

that's a personal matter. Most people today prefer the compressed sound since you are able to hear every detail of the sound.

yes, so if the volume of loud tracks is pulled down -2db, how will that make people not brickwall their tracks?

All tracks will be normalized to have the same loudness

No, on any soundsystem it is.

normalizing dosen't bring back dynamic range.

I'd say albums are starting to get mastered better and the loudness war is starting to reverse itself.
There's still lots of shit mastering but I'm hearing much less clipping on newer releases then there were circa 2003. I think people are slowly realizing how fucking awful it sounded.

But if every track has the same loudness, eventually producers and engineers will stop sacrificing dynamic range for loudness

this

No professionally mastered music is clipping. loop up "limiter"

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Every track will not have the same percieved loudness. compression makes the music feel like it is louder than it is. that's why they do it.

man this whole argument has been backwards
thanks for clarifying :)

I fucking hate having to turn the volume up so i really dont care about the loudness wars

thanks for visualizing my point.www

you know...that thing. that picture
is a meme

Use normalization then.

should be
"i hate having to turn the volume down"

Alright let me give you an example.

I'm a mastering engineer, working on Track A. I decide to limit the track very hard to make it sound louder. The track's loudness is around -6 RMS, which is fairly loud.

Meanwhile some other guy is mastering Track B. He decides to not limit the track at all, and the track's loudness is around -13 RMS which is relatively quiet.

Then we both upload the tracks onto Spotify, which turns Track A down so that it also has levels of -13 RMS. But Track A has much less dynamic range and it sounds worse...

not an argument

except brickwalling only sounds worse if you are a shitty mastering engineer.

this guy isnt wrong

that's why I only buy vinyls

also you ignored my point about percieved loudness. Track a will still feel louder even with -13db rms.

jeez all u want is loud loud loud
go listen to pink noise you sadist

>Track a will still feel louder even with -13db rms

It actually won't, you can try it yourself if you have an RMS meter

wow what an argument

It's a meme because it's factually incorrect...

>Then we both upload the tracks onto Spotify, which turns Track A down so that it also has levels of -13 RMS. But Track A has much less dynamic range and it sounds worse...
Does Spotify do this always, or does turning off volume normalization prevent it from happening?

its an option you can chose

just poking fun m8 ;^)

Compression make the quieter sounds louder, and the louder sounds quieter, makiong a more full sound. While unmastered, you won't be able to hear all the details of the music at -13db rmswww

It's factually correct that you might have to turn down the knob it you go from a quiet song to a loud song. It's factually incorrect that the loud song will sound worse because of low dynamic range.

I'm not saying all compression is bad. Even before the loudness wars, everything was compressed, it just wasn't limited as hard, or at all. If people want to use intense limiting for artistic reasons (Flying Lotus, brostep producers) that's fine, I don't think anyone is going to take away your limiters. It's just not going to be mandatory anymore to limit things so intensely. I personally think less restriction on musical style is better. Limit if you want to...or not.

see post above yours

>Compression make the quieter sounds louder, and the louder sounds quieter, makiong a more full sound.
>a more full sound

you mean a more compressed sound, you absolute retard

seriously do you fucks even listen to what you're saying? thread is full of fucking underage morons who listen to exclusively hip hop or rock or some shit and don't realize that in music some things are SUPPOSED to be quieter than other things

you should all just kill yourselves

dont tempt me

I agree.

Track A will still sound louder because compression leads to higher perceived loudness. Retard

I made that post

Compression brings out more detail in a sound. Sorry if you don't like my termonology.

RMS measures perceived loudness. So if both tracks are normalized to have the same RMS, they will both have the same perceived loudness. There are also more advanced loudness measuring units like LUFS which are more accurate, but RMS is often good enough.

>RMS measures perceived loudness
Wrong

It's not a perfect measurement, but it was used for years for that purpose and it still does a pretty good job. We also have LUFS if you'd rather consider that.

das a nice brick wall

Why would this make you angry? If something is poorly produced to the extent that you don't like listening to it, don't listen to it. There's still a lot of music out there that isn't subject to the loudness wars, go try that instead.

dynamics usually make no sense in pop/rock/edm music. why would you even bother?

How do they not make any sense?

the arrangements usually employ no subtle elements and the music is meant to be in your face and catchy and full of hooks the average listener will probably use a shitty smartphone or laptop speaker to listen to your music, so it makes even less sense

stop trying to define what it is 'meant' to be and take it for what it is
fucking hipster

do you even know what 'pop' implies? it is meant to be that way; it is that way and has been for a long time

feeling quite cynical today arent we?

I think you're extrapolating your opinion on what pop music should be from the position of someone who thinks it's below them. Rock/pop music is made by hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands of completely different people from just as many backgrounds all bringing their influences in and there is no "mean to be" because of this.

Pop hasn't meant just "popular" in a very long time. There is tons of pop music that gets no mainstream popularity and is made because the person making it likes the general constraints of pop music, and this also causes the genre to expand to fit these people's various influences into the genre itself.

Jeez, i'm obviously talking about the mainstream trends. Reread my posts. And no, I do listen to pop music and it has these exactly characterists: loud, compressed, in your face, catchy. It has been like this for a freaking long while

Your first post said nothing about the "mainstream", just pop and rock as a whole, at least just from reading the post. I somewhat agree with you if we're talking strictly top 40 but I don't think anyone here is. And even then, why should you dislike the mainstream taste changing?

not even strictly top 40, these are the prevailing production trends of these genres as a whole. if your music is somewhat similar to the mainstream acts, it will be loud and compressed and lacking dynamics. it's just what it is, and no, I don't particularly dislike it. this is just me attempting to show you how it would be counter-effective to employ dynamics in these particular genres, generally

throw dynamics out the window
shit is just too loud
when i have to set volume to 25% for a comfortable level something is wrong

it's fine for terrible pop music you're only going to listen to if it's not up to you. it's more annoying when acts that you like hop on the bandwagon. Flying Lotus and the Flaming Lips specifically are very guilty of this and both self-produce, so you can't blame the fuckin' record labels.

This isn't really trending anymore anyways. Quieter-sounding mixes are getting more popular

I have my computer volume set to 8% right now for comfortable listening. It depends on your setup though. Even quieter albums don't let me turn my volume up too loud.

why is that too loud?

>read thread

itt Sup Forumsmales who think they're better than sound engineers

its just sad music is being made to listen to on earpods now
makes me somewhat regret spending any amount of money on stereo gear

i wrote 10% of this thread and the point is makes no sense.

you should feel extra stupid then

>music is being made to listen to on earpods now
depends. listen to any ECM or Raster-Noton: the dynamics are still there

thx ill check it out

the only thing i feel stupid about is wasting my time on whiners