Frenchman reporting in. Just wanted to get something off my chest

Frenchman reporting in. Just wanted to get something off my chest.

I keep reading articles and comments online that say that the burkini ban is "un-democratic" and similar statements but I fail to see how this argument makes any sense.

There are many types of democracies with small differences here and there but at the end of the day, the fundamental definition of a democracy is that the power is held by the people. That is why we have elections and the people decide who should represent them. Of course, not everyone has the same views and vote how they wish which is why the majority always wins and everyone, including the minority, accepts that decision and lives with it. This is how a democracy works.

Now, getting back to the issue of burkinis. The way I see it, it's very simple:

> People vote for the mayor of whatever town
> Mayor is now the elected representative of the people
> Mayor = The people
> Mayor introduces burkini ban = The people introduce burkini ban
> Democracy prevails

Am I missing something?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opération_Harmattan
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Local politicians are proxies of the locals to report to a mayor, the mayor is a proxy for the city's supposed interests, he passes shit on to state politicians, they pass it on to whoever is above that.

Either way just ban leftists and Islam.

Just surrender to them like you surrender to everything else

Parce qu'une loi interdisant le port d'un vêtement est une aberration. C'était juste une façon de montrer à ses électeurs que le maire était anti-musulman. Pour info je suis blanc et athée donc sans parti pris.
Si tu crois encore que la démocratie en France est un gouvernement du peuple par le peuple, je te conseille vivement de te réveiller et de t'instruire. C'est une oligarchie ici.

Tu es stupide, comme tous bon citoyen du monde.
Tu ne comprends pas que le Burkini, ou n'importe quel autre prétexte utilisé pour emmerdé les musulmans, sont dans le but de déclencher une guerre civil.
Alors maintenant tu es au courant, alors stop être un pigeon, bisous.

>Am I missing something
-the constitution
-bill of human rights

Un des rares français un tant soit peu intelligent que je croise ici oO

It's not undemocratic, it's illiberal.
I'm as anti-Islam as they come but frankly this is just showing how pathetic you pussies have become. you're too afraid to take on scary men with guns so you choose to harass harmless women on the beach.

I understand how one may argue that passing a law which forbids people from wearing a certain garment (whether religious or not) may be considered "wrong" or immoral, however, it certainly is NOT "un-democratic." If that is the will of the people, the so be it. If the people elected an Islamophobic representative, then so be it. No democracy is perfect and there is no such thing as a "perfect" system. We can argue all day, every day, about what is "good" or "bad" or "wrong" however, we must accept the decision of the people and its elected representatives because that is the only way a democracy can work. If the people cannot even accept the very fundamental principal behind a democracy, that is when we are doomed.

>guerre civile
Sérieusement ?
Quel serait l’intérêt de faire un guerre civile ? On a déjà l’état d'urgence.
Et c'est plus pour récupérer des votes pour les élections ainsi que de masquer de vrais problème. Genre loi travail passée en scred pendant les vacances.

For everyone's understanding, what this user said is that the ban on burkini is a pretext to piss off muslims and to provoke a civil war.

Basically: Pissing off muslims in France = Civil war

Do you really not see the problem with that???

Thank you. Yes, it might be illiberal and many other things for that matter. I just wanted to show everyone that "undemocratic" is not one of those things.

Nope.

Better now then having their numbers get even greater.

Oh car il y a des gens qui s'amuse à essayer d'invoquer le Messie, du coup, bah ça passe par l'apocalyspe.

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> you think democracy is ochlocracy
you are an idiot, democracy protects minorities too. or do you think nazi germany was an democracy?

I guarantee it would be all over the news if it was a white male punching a nigger

Well, the people elected Hitler into power, so technically he was a democratically elected leader. Also, please go back to plebbit faggot

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What's the pretext for banning the Burkini, though? Didn't the mayor say it was some sort of safety issue?

You probably think USA is an democracy too. You are the faggot without arguments, summerfag. Do you even read what ochlocracy is?

>democracy protects minorities too
that's not part of the definition of a democracy.

1815 worst year of life

THIS. You can't blame a single politician for his actions, certainly not if an entire fucking country elected him. Blame the people. You cannot have a political system by which the powers lies with the people but the people don't the responsibility that comes with that power.

THIS

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opération_Harmattan

its not really undemocratic since they were free to challenge it in court
afaik they did so and it got overturned
now its up to those in favor of the ban to challenge that ruling at the next highest level of court
this may go back and forth up until the highest instance to get the final ruling on it

this is exactly how democracy works
calling it "undemocratic" shows you have no idea how this system works and at best is a cheap attempt at discrediting the people who like the ban

a democracy acts in the public interest. discriminating minorities isn't public interest. and now don't tell me that people could hide bombs or guns under burkinis.

but since french anyway going full retard right-wing i don't wonder anymore. next you are telling me that french increase of cyber observation is public interest too.

this is all bullshit made by politicans. some terrorist attacks and you can legitimate every bullshit. it's all about geopolitics. discriminating an whole ethnicity because less than 0,000000001% are terrorits is full retard and so are you.

holy shit u are dumb. after his election, hitler successively removed all checks and balances that would have been there to stop him. after that the democracy changed to a dictatorship. i can tell you are a leftist pleb, because you don't even know what you are talking about. "democracy protects minorities" top fucking kek.

THIS. also european democracy is based on the thought of humanism ...

constitution protects minorities, not democracy, you fucking inbred.

because french isn't doing right now the same...

> activates emergency laws
> gives more power to police/military
> begins discriminating minorities
> wants new security/observation laws+
>... its called trick 17

democracy is based on constitution you nazi scum

Altough it's a shitty political move from the mayor that law makes perfectly sense, the Cote d'Azur has around 10 millions tourists every year and I'm pretty sure said tourists don't want to see women in burkini and they do more for the economy than muslims since that region basically relies on tourism

Since alot of the tourists are men the mayor should allow raping the local women, because i think the tourists do more for economy than those lazy bitches since that region basically relies on tourism

>a democracy acts in the public interest. discriminating minorities isn't public interest
wtf? thats quite a leap of faith

"equality" only means everybody gets an equal say but democracy still adheres to the vote of the majority
modern democracies chose freely to expand this concept to the point where minorities get protected yet there are reasonable exceptions to that rule e.g. banning the burka or burkini

holy fucking shit, were your grandparents brother and sister as well? constitution has nothing to do with the form of government. please go back to school and stop sucking your mullah's dick.

the entire burkini ban is beyond dumb and literally illogical. Let us protect these women from men that tell them what to wear by telling them what to wear. Good shit.
The only people that support this are intolerant and have the social maturity of a child.

>musulman

not a bad idea.

they are still calling themselves democratic tho. as is turkey. it's a farce.

>large portion of french population is arab
>most of them muslim
>the ''inteligent'' thing is to cut that profit so weak willed and close minded people won't have to look at other peoples cultural habits
??? The gain is so small compared to the loss it baffles me that anyone with a brain supports it.

I remember they taking back the african one, it was offensive.

It makes no sense, that's a false equivalence. Neither I implied muslims were lazy, just that you can't possibly jeopardise the main industry of an area to appeal a fraction of a minority, most of the muslims don't go to the beach anyway.

but in democratic countries democracy is based on consitution, they are like the basic rules for the countries democracy. and sure alot of constitution saying which form of government the country has. look for example constitution article 20 of germany which says "germany is an democratic republic"

Who cares if they are peaceful or not , filled up is filled up.

>safety issue
I'm guessing it was along the lines of ''they might hide a bomb under!!!''. Problem is the best way to walk around with a bomb is in a backpack (see Marathanon Bombers) not a burka/hijab because those will evidently attract more attention. I have yet to see a single correct and logical reason for banning burkinis that isn't based on other people being uncomfortable (everyone has the same right to comfort)

franchement,se baigner habillé, faut pas etre un peu naze ?

J'mappele fuq jou
Croque monsieur
Voulez vouz coucher avec moi
Baguette

mieux que pas ce baigner du tout

should be fine french are great with wars

Regardless of if its democratic or not, it's fucking retarded. People should be free to do what they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others, and wearing a stupid ass swimsuit doesn't do that.

i know that, but it's not the line in the constitution that protects minorities. it is merely stating the form of government. minority protection is widespread throughout art 3, 4, 5 GG and more.

c'est pas ça le problème le problème c'est que dans un pays laïc ce genre de choses devrait pas arriver, c'est vraiment honteux qu'on s'attarde sur ce genre de merde alors qu'on a des problèmes tellement plus importants

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People just throw buzzwords to sound smart especially when it comes to leftist cry reports and arguments. It's like how everyone calls everything fascist but if you ask them to define it they'll at the most just be like "um it's like nazis you know?".

quesque ça peut te foutre

>The only people that support this are intolerant and have the social maturity of a child.

no you fucking dimwit actually its quite the other way around
burka and burkini are politicial symbols
not allowing these kinds of things to get any tractions means standing up to the ideology they do represent
tolerating intolerance is just stupid but I guess you cant wrap your head around that

Fun fact: France invented bikini

i don't see the point of your post

these things shouldn't be put into a vote or be controlled by the state tho

and as someone who hates burkinis and everything along those lines, banning it FUCKING STUPID
if I believe that my free ideas are better than islam then these women or their children WILL embrace them if dialog and speech is free

the state should protect women's right to wear a burkini and most importantly their right to not wear it and not be forced by their families to do it.

that's how you have progress. when armed police show there it just makes them feel different and disagree with your point of view just cause of this.

hate and intolerance - under the cover of secularity christcucks try to wage their own holy war. Problem is they wont win, cuz they attack the surface, not the core. All religion must be eliminated at the core of its delusion, not at its expression.

Let me rephrase it slightly :

>> People vote for the mayor of whatever town
>> Mayor is now the elected representative of a majority of voters
>> The mayor only represent that majority
>> When a mayor decide to do something, this doesn't mean he's got a permanent ticket to do whatever he wants.


Acquire some notions of Law (Consitution ?) and some notions of ethics (in which way wearing burkini is a danger for the other people there ? In which way wearing burkini is a danger for the people wearing it?)

For the others, stick to english, please. In an international website, common practice is to speak english, in order to let everyone contribute and understand what's discussed here. Even if your english skill (like mine) is nonexistent

>everyone that follows islam or live in islamic families are trying to be political
No you fucking retard, they are trying to enjoy a day at the beach. The day you actually visit another continent and get fucked on for being white maybe you'll understand tolerance is the way to go. These women aren't protesting christianity, democracy or the french goverment, they are simply trying to enjoy their day at the beach. Who are you to walk all over their rights and decide what they wear? ''standing up to the ideology'' of arab men telling women what to wear by telling arab women what to wear? Actually think instead of repeating what you read you fucking tool. You actually care about islam not getting traction? Go volonteer to an organisation that helps ex-muslims or donate money to them, they help women that actually don't want to be controlled by islamic men to get out of their communities safely.

The fundamental definition of a democracy is that people are given the illusion of power, and true power is held by whatever lying fuckass wins the popularity contest via media exposure.

>People vote for the mayor of whatever town
>Mayor got sixty gorillion dollars from mining corp
>used it for campaigning, made false promises
>almost nobody knew about the other candidates because there is no mandate for voter education for fair campaigning because that would be unamerican
>Mayor = Actually the mining corp
>Mayor introduces a new silver mine, pollutes municipal drinking supply, runs dry two years later and destroys local econony
>democracy prevails

Thanks, france.

Lottocracy > democracy

Anyone who knows which representative position they're going into probably has an ulterior motive
And allowing candidates that choice encourages low standards among voters ("oh, they're just a member of the house, who cares if they're a high school drop out" "THE PRESIDENT? BETTER BE EXTRA SCRUTINIZING")

with democracy, when the Muslim population reaches majority..its will be all over.

Oh my god, I didn't know there was so much people with a functional brain in a single thread there:

not an argument

stop trying to read in between the lines if you are unable to do so

I never made this out to include all muslims let alone claming they are all inherently political
afterall only a small minority of muslims even wears the burka
those who do so are usually part of a radical understanding of it (e.g. wahabism) and as such are trying to gain political influences as to broaden their influence on western societies
whether thats in a peaceful way or not doesnt matter
it has to be shut down from the start

People use a lot of words without care about their nuances or even if the word remotely applies to a situation. The people who want to say this whole situation given by OP is "un-democratic" either don't give a shit if the word applies or don't know if it applies and just knows it as a buzzword.

They can't just put in place of un-democratic "I don't like this" (what they really want to say most of the time) so they have to put a buzzword that they think fits. It's just like how people will call anything they don't like fascist.

it was banned after french teenagers and africans were fighting on the beach. they said it was an islamic symbol that would raise tensions.

anyway they should let them wear what they want and drown them in it.

>as is turkey
/someone else - i know this is an unpopular opinion, but i don't see anything wrong with turkeys politics. All their hate thowards the kurds comes from kurds doing attacks in turkey. Two weeks ago some suicide bombers exploded in a wedding - 70 dead, mostly children. Attackers were probably kurds. Didn't follow the news till then, but there were probably more attacks against turkish civilians again. And then there was an attempted coup - which was also beaten down mercilessly. All people who aperrently supported it get purged and the west cries because they don't get much of a trial. But that's the thing - turkey and other middle eastern countries don't work like the west does. These people need a strong leader who will whip the shit out of them if they misbehave, otherwise you end up like syria. Or lybia. Or any other middle eastern country that used to have a working civilization that wasn't in favor of the west because it had a 'brutal dictator' as head of the government.
>pic related, thank god this 'terrible dictator' is gone, so we can enjoy years of civil war in lybia ultimately destabilizing the entire area

>burka and burkini are politicial symbols
>not allowing these kinds of things to get any tractions means standing up to the ideology they do represent
Can you seriously tell me why you are better then the people you are trying to stop? Why do your rules about womens clothing are better then theirs? Is it because you're a westerner? Is it because you're not muslim? What is it about moderates that you don't understand? What is it about restricting their religious freedoms that you find more comfortable? Do you really think this generation of muslims will have a smaller fraction of radicals because your restrict their mothers, sisters and daughters freedom? This can only make things worse. People like you and your equivalent in the muslim community are LITERALLY the problem. You are literally the same thing that you are trying to stop (but you're a westerner so you're actually correct :^)

Minority protection is garenteed, can't be changed by votes. That's what your missing dumbfuck

Only polititians raise tensions via their recuperation of bombings. They can wear what they want if they don't disturb anyone.

In France, you don't have the right to wear a SS uniform and swastika on you. So what is the problem with baning this shitty wear ?

Also, in France, if you're employed by the state (fonctionnaire), you don't have the right to show your religion, for a principle of treatment equality. At the same time, you can be a police officer in UK and wear a hijab...

Nichons ou casse toi

And what if they disturb people? If this was a perfect world all muslims who came to europe would adapt to the respective culture including the clothing in order to blend in with the country. But they don't give a fuck what we think and we have to take it like fucking bitches because "muh racism". And this gives you a clue about their relationship thowards the west.

Impositions democratically arrived at should be subject to rights. Pure majority-rules democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

Now, whether or not you have a right to wear your Islamist battle uniform on a French beach is another matter.

>I can't stand people being different then my culture
Literally intolerance

>not sure if stupid or trolling
I was actually just referring to moderate muslims and how they dont even wear the burka
Im perfectly with those people

read again the burka is a political symbol of radical islam (wahabism and such)
those kind of beliefs are the diametrical opposite to the norms of western society

>Can you seriously tell me why you are better then the people you are trying to stop?
if you cant figure out why western society is "better" than radical islam then feel free to move to the middle east
Im sure youre going to have a great time

In which way someone wearing a burkini disturbs people ?

who the fuck cares about that additional piece of clothing?! I get the problem with burkas... when the whole face but the eyes are covered... but burkinis?! C'mon. Enough problems as it is. You don't have to invent them.

>defending Muslims
>allowing degeneracy to erode society and rot away your culture in the name of "freedom for all"
How about freedom for people who matter

you know the wedding was a kurdish wedding? so it doesn't make sense at all. and erdogan is literally doing genocide with kurds. he even supported ISIS and is bombing the kurds which fight against ISIS and i highly doubt that the military riot wasn't well known before. they already had an list of ten thousands of people which got incarcernated. and he fired nearly every judge and military commander aswell police which isn't 100% his opinion which destroyed the division of powers which an basic element of democracy. also he is surpressing other political parties and press. this guy is going full hitler right now and turkey people are too stupid to see.

I can when I go to their country

> or they end up like lybia or syria
so they shouldn't need some US freedom? those countries were just influenced by US geopolitics. every country don't want to accept US $ as currency for oil gets invaded sooner or later. same was with iraq.

>moderates don't wear burka/hijabs
That's bullshit
>My culture is better then an other
For you. It's THEIR choice what culture they prefer and you have no right telling them what is correct. I love western culture and the liberties that typically come with it but I (and you) am in no position to tell others it is the only correct one. That is part of our liberties and we should uphold them even if it might make things uncomfortable for a minority.

do you know what is it called when you don't like sth so other people have to stop it?
fascism

Incredible bait

>no argument
Summer Sup Forums at work

Agnostic, blanc, Terrien...

Le corollaire a tout ça c'est que si le monde musulman ou un pays, le Maroc ou autre, subit pendant 10-15 ans des attentats par des chrétiens, revendiquant Jesus, qui se font sauté avec d'énorme croix en forme de dynamite, et bah t'évite de te déguiser en Jesus demain pour allez prendre ton café chez moktar. En arguant que ta foie est plus importante que tout et que t'as le droit de t'habillé comme tu veux.

Je fais allusion à la scène du moment chez le restaurateur.
Quel abrutis inconscient aussi celui la... il a bien servi notre cause.. " Je suis raciste, mais au moins les racistes comme moi posent pas des bombes " a t'il dit au deux femmes voilées. Propre...

Donc voilà, une petite projection de la situation à l'inverse permet de relativiser.
En démocratie l'asservissement visible de la femme n'a rien a y faire.

C'est dommage d'en arriver a faire des "lois" anti vêtement religieux. La manoeuvre est inélégante, mais en même temps ne pensez pas à construire une tripoté d'églises à Djerba..
Tu te pointes pas au commissariat ou dans un banque avec une réplique d'arme! Même en mousse putain !

Tous les attentas sont revendiqué par un Islam radical, et voilà qu'ils nous demande de pas faire l'amalgame avec des symboles religieux vestimentaires venant de cette même radicalisation ?!

Je n'aime pas les racistes, je déteste toute forme de clivage.
Mais on parle de nous détruire là.
J'en suis réduit à me dire que je préfère faire un amalgame que de me faire buter. Et là c'est le début de la fin... il faut absolument éviter la peur.
Rappelons qu'elle même n'évite pas le danger.
Alors ne tomber pas dans le piège. Même si c'est compliqué de rester conciliant avec un peuple dont une grande partie veut nous envahir/ conquérir/ ou éradiqué.

Le problème est que le mal est difficile a identifier. Il est présent dans la culture de l'Islam mais je reste convaincu qu'il nest pas l'Islam.

well in my copy of the dictionary democracy is defined as "a bunch of gold coins" why wouldn't you want a bunch of gold coins?

>conservilards btfo

Democracy without boundaries is just mob rule.

I don't care about the ban, but I think it is futile and pointless.

Well one can argue that if you like that culture so much you stay in the country that has seen the birth of it, and that exporting it in another country goes against the liberties of the people who are perfectly fine with the usual culture of said country

trips of truth
> ITT: lots of butthurt french racists shouting liberte on the streets while saying people what they have to wear

For you. It's THEIR choice what culture they prefer and you have no right telling them what is correct.
true! we should just let them do whatever the fuck they want in their countries whether that is pushing gay people from roof tops, stoning adulterers to death or killing people for apostasy
lo and behold they never get their hands on WMDs though /s

>That is part of our liberties and we should uphold them
upholding them actually means not tolerating their intolerance dont try to turn the tables on this one