Is Metal dead?
There hasn't been any innovation for over a decade and a half.
>Inb4 Djent, Crabcore shit, Screamo and other nonsense
That's not Metal and certainly not the kind it used to be in the past in the sense that it appealed to millions.
What happened? How did it stagnate so bad? Very seldom do I listen to something genuinely new, but even then it's not necessarily innovative and it's still stuck in a subgenre that's known to me.
metal is still alive and well just that the media doesn't cover any of it. Innovation on the other hand is pretty low
It's not necessarily that it's dead as a genre, Wacken still fills up to capacity, but the innovation and any new shit hasn't been in the scene easily for a decade and a half.
Maybe I'm a bit out of loop.
>I don't like it so it's not metal.
>caring if music appeals to the masses
>I haven't heard anything new so nothing new exists.
>new genres and subgenres simply come into being instead of old music slowly changing into new.
The problem is that you want another scene not innovation.
I find that in the 2010s, there has been a larger focus on rhythmic stuff with metal though.
Deathspell Omega - Paracletus
Liturgy - Aesthetica
Mgla - Exercise In Futility
Jute Gyte - Perdurance
the traditional quality of their riffs can be debated, but listen to their rhythm sections. They are far more varied this time around compared to earlier stuff. So this time it's the riffs that set the base for the drums to go crazy with their rhythms rather than the drums setting the base for the riffs to go crazy.
>Power Metal is older than NWOBHM
What?
I knew before making the thread some over the top, smug asshole would come along and talk shit as if what I'm saying is not fucking true.
Kill yourself, son.
>Unironically recommending Liturgy
I gather you're fairly new around here? In 2012 recommending that album here could never be done without a hint of irony or b8 behind it. I hate it, desu.
Mgla and Deathspell Omega are fine, still haven't listened to Jute Gyte but I'll give it a go tonight, my man.
Picked a random image to start the thread, don't mind it.
I know Liturgy's reputation here. And I personally don't like some of the bits from it either, but it's definitely an example of the newer wave of bands that are more centered around crazy percussive parts. If you gonna listen to Perdurance, pay the main attention to the drums not the riffs. Riffs sound like basic bitch tier black metal, but it's trying to keep together the weird polyrhythmic multiple time signatures stuff from the rhythm section.
As long as it's something new. Many a times in the genre from anything done in the 80s (be it Glam, Death, even Industrial and a lot of BM) the drums were taking a backseat to get that "stadium" feel and they were muffled, so that always bugged me.
Thanks for the recommends my dude.
>no innovation
Fuck outta here.
>Kill yourself, son.
his first and last points are completely right
...
>Screamo
>metal
??
nice b8
>His
Your*
And it's a strawman.
Anything with harsh vocals and guitars is Metal, friend, haven't you heard? :^)
you can't just say there hasn't been any innovation just because you don't like it
why are metal fans such faggots?
probably cause most metalheads are closeminded neckbeards that detest anything that doesnt sound like a million metal albums released before it
what are some of your favorite metal albums?
stay mad nu-male
>Deafheaven and Liturgy are considered metal
>Screamo isn't
>Grindcore is
>even though 50% of screamo sounds more like grindcore than emo.
When will this meme die?
triggered fat neckbeard detected
I'm 100% sure that that isnt the kind of Screamo OP was whining about.
the only one who sounds triggered here is you, friend
>Deafheaven and Liturgy are considered Metal
By you people, not by me.
Did ya'll seriously miss the days long threads dissing both or something?
You responded to someone insulting fat neckbeards, thus you must be a fat neckbeard. End of story.
Oranssi Pazuzu - Värähtelijä (black metal with a heavy psych bent, 2016)
Murmuüre - Murmuüre (hard to figure out whether this is metal or ambient you decide, 2010)
Peste Noire - L'ordure à L'état pur (yeah we have had black metal/folk combinations before but nothing this odd, 2011)
Thy Catafalque - Rengeteg (avant garde metal with weird electronic bits)
Pyrhhon - The Mothers Of Virtue (tech death + math rock + noise rock)
Antediluvian - Logos (caverncore + Incantationcore)
>It's only metal if I decide it's BRUTAL enough \m/
i thought they were more associated with hardcore than black metal
Not him but everything I've heard by Deafheaven just sounds like emo/screamo
who are you quoting?
Nice strawman.
I enjoy some of the cheesiest Metal in existence because it has a certain quality to it besides self-professed "TRANSCENDENTAL QUALITIES". Kys.
>recommending actually good metal to him
>Pyrhhon
>Antediluvian
Haven't listened to these yet, so I will tonight aswell.
>Thy Catafalque
Fucking hate this band so much, man.
>Thinks I'm that out of loop
Kys.
i don't follow that logic
metal just doesn´t have any inheritors capable of bringing thousands of people into a stadium, so yeah, pretty much stagnated in this sense. But you know underground and shit
Do they have sources for any of those timepoints?
>strawman
>Kys
ebin memes
your dumb
...
>He still hasn't offed himself
Why not?
See
...
i didn't, i just came to the conclusion that most of the criticisms don't hold water, especially those attempting to show they're not metal
after all it only comes down to seeing them as people not within your in-group, same with core fans really
I'm not even defending those bands, but implying that since Deafheaven received critical acclaim it can't be considered metal is pretty ridiculous. Roads to Judah is pretty cookie cutter post-metal/atmospheric shit, but I'll bet you'd consider WITTR as metal. You can dislike their music but it's silly to think just because you don't like something it doesn't belong in said genre. And also not everything is that black and white, you can have music that's stylistically both hardcore or metal or screamo or whatever, if you don't like the band that doesn't make it appropriate to ignore the stylistic traits that would define it being 'metal' or 'punk' or whatever. Just like you could make the point that something like Arise! by Amebix or Speak English or Die by S.O.D. is both punk and metal, it's silly to cherry pick things about bands you like or dislike while ignoring stylistic elements. Deafheaven has atmospheric black metal elements, while it also has clear screamo and clear post-rock elements.
Can you give us a complete list of what is included in the "other nonsense" category, so we can see if you just dismiss all new innovations in metal music as not metal or if theres an actual discussion to be had?
I agree. Today's middlebrow "art-metal" has nothing on '80s Queensryche
>wants inovation
>wants "the kind it used to be in the past in the sense that it appealed to millions."
I just want retards to leave.
/thread
>strawman
>self-professed "TRANSCENDENTAL QUALITIES"
they must think Rainbow Rising is the first power metal album or something
Eh, there's a lot I don't consider Metal for several reasons, but it's not something I feel like discussing now since it couldn't be further removed from my OP.
>Deafheaven received critical acclaim and it can't be considered Metal
DO you like, breathe Strawmans or something?
Read above and take a hike, Deafheaven is as Metal as Hawkmoon. Give it a break already, JfC, haven't you Deafheaven geezers been humiliated enough when the album came out?
Read above. Read the thread, while you're at it.
Strawman.
>/threading your own post
Sad.
>Inb4 poor shoop showing you didn't
>Inb4 2 poor shoops with different Sup Forums skins
?
blackgaze, post-black, post-metal, black death, and ortho black have all happened recently. There's been massive innovation, you just don't listen to it pretty clearly.
>Implying screamo is metal and not post-hardcore
also atmospheric death metal and atmo tech death with djent influences have been big. Listen to more new music op, maybe you'll learn something.
Literally quoting him, in both his points.
Are you a retard or a troll?
See Smug asshole #2.
Again, I'm not that out of loop, I just see nothing too innovative recently. Which should be pretty standard for 5, 6, 7 years, but not more than a decade and a half.
>Calls other retarded
>Whilst behaving and speaking like one
Sure showed me, son.
>Being such a insecure contrarian hipster that you refuse to admit something belongs to something just because it kinda didn't like it's buzz
black/death is a new genre?
>DO you like, breathe Strawmans or something
Well that is pretty clearly the reason most people don't consider Deafheaven to be metal, as I stated earlier if you consider WITTR as atmo black but not Deafheaven you're a fucking hypocrite, the quality of their music is completely irrelevant.
>haven't you Deafheaven geezers been humiliated enough when the album came out?
nice strawman, I never mentioned whether I like or dislike the band, I'm not defending their music, I'm refuting your shitty logic.
For the record I'm not really a fan btw
>Deafheaven is as Metal as Hawkmoon
Well according the a quick youtube listen Hawkmoon is black metal, although I'm fairly certain you meant Hawkwind which is still pretty irrelevant, nice red herring tho
Also considering you seem to be the strawman police, you should really check this statement:
okay heres what I meant by "other nonsense"... none of these are metal
>slams
>breakdowns
>guttural vocals
>sludge related things
>metal/noise fusions
>bands that have members with short hair
>music made after the 80's
butifel
...
How does your linked post even relate to my post? How is the black death/atmo death trend not innovative? Like what the fuck do you want dude, what would be innovative to you, because this is literally a massively innovative trend that is going to permanently shape metal.
Yeah
youtube.com
ebin
Also that wasn't me threading my own post, nice try though
inb4ing any proof against your retarded assumption means it must be a shop is pretty sad in itself though
you know black/death has been a big thing since at least the '90s, right? Even as early as '86 or 87 depending on what you make of the whole thrash/death/black soup that existed then
>CTRL-F: strawman
>11 hits
Wow, I didn't expect to meet such an intelligent person on a singaporean knitting board
I see you came in here just to be a faggot, good job so far.
You're the hipster here, if anything.
>Being this much of a newfag
Smdh.
>pretty clearly the reason most people don't consider Deafheaven to be Metal
It's like you enjoy talking out of your ass. WITTR is shit and it's still Metal, Deafheaven is hipster masturbatory nonsense. It has nothing to do with "critical acclaim" you knob, it's recognising simple shit. Sludge and some strings of Doom sound similar, doesn't make them the same subgenre.
It's like you started listening to music yesterday.
>Muh strawman
>Doesn't even know what a fucking strawman is
You're embarrassing to look at.
>Red herring
A typo is a red herring now? You sure fucking know your fallacies my man, god damn (not).
>Rest is you showing that you're newfag scum
It's like you don't know the faggot behind Liturgy called it "Transcendental Black Metal" and made a fool out of himself as much as you're doing right now.
Kys.
It's a very minor innovation, like splitting hairs in the subgenre. There's an abyss of difference between NWOBHM and BM, not that much between all the sub-subgenres of Black Metal (DSBM, NSBM, Atmospheric BM). It's essentially the same.
Why are you so mad, nigga?
Called it.
"NO U".
and it has evolved since through... INNOVATION
There is a massive difference between the black/death of the 80s, black death of the 90s, and black death now. Like, night and fucking day.
80s black death
youtube.com
90s black death
youtube.com
current black death
youtube.com
honestly "black/death" is just a shitty term for it, the only reason it's not fully recognized as a separate genre is because we don't have a great name for it yet.
>hey, let's just get an entirely new genre completely unrelated to any other genre 40 years after metal was created
that's not even remotely how things work. Also
>comparing black metal to NWOBHM
you're retarded, it would be better to compare it to the early 80s extreme thrash like slayer, venom, and Bathory, of which it took literally over a decade to come to the traditional second wave sound. Compare black metal in 2017 to black metal in 1994 and there is a gigantic difference, aside from bands who purposely try to recreate an old sound.
of course
Still doing a good job it seems :)
“Hipster” is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else’s authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.
It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.
Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you’ve probably sensed the pattern on your own).
You can’t define what “that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle” actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That’s because you don’t use “hipster” to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.
The twist, of course, is that if it weren’t for your own insecurities, nothing that a “hipster” could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - “Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I’m certainly not like those filthy hipsters!” - so you project those feelings.
Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, “ironic” Them.
tl;dr: if you believe hipsters exist, you are a plebeian.
>Smdh.
>Kys.
>You're retarded
>Whilst failing to understand a simple, valid comparison showcasing clear differences between subgenres
Again, why are you so mad? Is it because you don't have a point?
After you, kys.
>This old pasta
Kek.
>i like liturgy urfaust sunbather, the list goes on
...
>it's pasta so it's invalid
Okay then tell me exactly why Deafheaven isn't metal without using buzzwords this time or avoiding the argument by pointing out a non existent fallacy.
>You're embarrassing to look at
lmao
Also nice reading comprehension, obviously I'm not calling your spelling mistake a red herring
And yeah I do know that hunter called Liturgy Transcendental Black Metal, which I agree is fucking pretentious and retarded but you can be a fool and still make metal music, I don't know why you keep conjoining the two ideas, you must be autistic or something.
>inb4 ad homiem
You can dislike Liturgy and Deafheaven as much as you want but that doesn't change the stylistic elements that make up their music.
>Deafheaven
>You have scrobbled
>It's like you don't know the faggot behind Liturgy called it "Transcendental Black Metal"
i know, i've read his essay, it's shit but you're deliberately reducing HHH's points and his music to that caricaturized statement
>and made a fool out of himself as much as you're doing right now.
he didn't, he's the hero music needs.
...
It is.
There's pasta in response to that pasta, pasta in response to that one and so on for another 3-4 turns, it's meaningless drivel.
Already did, but by all means don't read that and then ask me to tell you why.
>Backpedalling already when called out on not knowing jackshit about fallacies
Liturgy has absolutely nothing on it that makes that pretentiousness worth while, it's complete shit in every aspect and that's pretty much universally agreed. An American kid decided to make Black Metal into something more than it was, anyone from the original scene would laugh at something so retarded, contrived and forced.
>MUH AD HOMINEM
So basically you admit to being everything I called you, nice.
>Stylistic elements
Already addressed this, sharpen your reading comprehension kiddo.
What on g-d's name are you blathering about?
Yeah you're right it is simple shit
>if I don't like X it cant' be Y, because I like Y
...
>Whilst failing to understand a simple, valid comparison showcasing clear differences between subgenres
Alright I'm going to assume you're trolling, you didn't give that comparison, I did. It's not valid to compare black metal and NWOBHM as much as it's not valid to compare atmospheric sludge metal and power metal. They're entirely separate branches on the metal tree, of course they sound drastically different. You want someone to come up with an entirely different genre of metal outside of any kind of other genre, and I'm telling you that's not how innovation works. It takes time to come up with these things, often decades. Just because modern tech is drastically accelerating innovation in general, does not mean there's going to be an entirely new genre ever 5 years. It took decades to transition from the Classical period to Romanticism, and the evolution from early romantic to late romantic took a full century. Things take time, just chill nigga.
Deafheaven's bandcamp
>What on g-d's name are you blathering about?
just that you're so hotheaded you lack the self-awareness to see when you're making a strawman after being so quick to call others out on it
>It's not valid to compare subgenres of the same genre
Are you legit autistic or something?
Consider suicide, snide shit.
...
>Doesn't know what a strawman is
Jesus Christ, there's a sticky on one of the boards containing a lot of logical fallacies, go there and learn the definition before you spout that shit, dummy.
yo, Deafheaven is metal though
Damn, this one is going straight to the cringe folder.
>same genre
Metal isn't a genre itself, it's an umbrella genre that includes other genres just like rock or electronic. It started as a sub genre of rock, but it has evolved way beyond that. Also you are entirely ignoring all of my points and hand picking things you disagree with and using one liners. What would be innovative to you senpai? What would innovation in metal sound like to you?
All you've done is proclaim that because Liturgy or Deafheaven is "shit" or "hipster masturbatory nonsense" you literally have not even touched upon how it isn't metal sonically which is all that matters. You're confusing image and perception of the listener with the actual music. Once again It can be retarded contrived and forced and pretentious and it can be the worst piece of shit ever made, that doesn't make it not metal. Metal is not the opposite of shit.
Also nice reading comprehension again I was referring to the probability of you calling me out for ad hominem for pointing out your likelihood of being on the autism spectrum based on your inability to differentiate ideas.
>already addressed this
No, I addressed it and you avoid it because you can't prove Deafheaven isn't metal, you just go on insulting them based on their merit which again has nothing to do with the original point, I've already stated I'm not a fan of them either.
There's no way this isn't bait at this point it's starting to get really embarrassing that you think only good metal bands are metal and everything else is some other shit, simply because you don't like it.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
K.
>Metal isn't a genre
JfC.
not telling you to kys, just saying you obviously came in here to be a faggot and i wanted to let you know what a good job you're doing :)
an umbrella term isn't a term that designates several related subgenres, it's a term that's employed to designate several loosely related things for the sake of convenience.
Metal is a genre
with subgenres
what you meant to say is it's an umbrella genre that INCLUDES blackgaze/post black metal, or whatever you want to call it. Meaning that Liturgy and Deafheaven are indeed included in the umbrella of metal
>There hasn't been any innovation for over a decade and a half.
This just simply isn't true, just look at shit like Blackgaze
Deafheaven is metal. Black metal.