/balk/

Catholicism Edition

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youtube.com/watch?v=IN675OGwVok
youtube.com/watch?v=9KDJ2Ud87mw
youtube.com/watch?v=pZVNS4p8sPo
dw.com/en/kosovo-fears-for-us-ties-under-trump/a-37186938
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyed_Serbian_heritage_in_Kosovo
youtube.com/watch?v=rkPtPd1740o
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

at least be Byzantine-rite if you're gonna be a Catlick on the Balkans

It was confirmed last thread that I am Greek

We are still βροτηερσ

i saw a choir once singing oustide the local catholic church here while i was riding my bycicle, i stopped and listened to them for a little bit, there were some real qties there too

>lmao retard. We have always helped when help was needed, and everybody knows that.
wrong, diaspora are widely known as scum and human garbage and cowards

Fifth for true faith, the one true Orthodox Catholic church.

t. t*rk

You people are so pathetic, I swear to god. Being peaceful with you has been the greatest mistake ever. Bulgaria should exterminate you roaches.

don't be tempted, brat

Kek this.The only respectable Diaspora is non-nationalist one

i played violin in my schools choir to mix and mingle with qts

i agree that we should exterminate the roaches but what i said about diaspora is unironically true

kek, tempted to join you mean? no way son, im scared of being a heretic and angering god

>The only respectable Diaspora is non-nationalist one

:^)

I'll think about it when I throw your corpse into a mass grave.

who the hell is catholic in your country tho

pussy is the gateway to heresy

sure thing, t*rk

>gateway to heresy
i hear you on that my ex gf tried to get me to join the orthodox church

You have no idea how cringy your """"""""threats""""""""" are Montenegrini

what makes you think i'm a turk? i hate turks but diaspora, especially nationalistic pseudo-patriot diaspora is fucking autistic

i have no idea tbqh

i always assume most of them are croatian or something, but they could be macedonian, i have no idea

frankly, unless you come crawling and praise the Church while scolding the half-believers born into it, as a proper Orthoboo - we don't want you

>Just in the last thread a Serb told me all he wants is peace in the Balkans and he fucking hates the diaspora that chimp out in Sup Forums.

No Serb that knows what happened to his people in Kosovo can ever want peace. The only thing a true Serb can want is total extermination of all Shqiptar vermin!

youtube.com/watch?v=IN675OGwVok

>whore montenegrini
XD

catholics are the master race prove me wrong


pro tip: you can't

shut up whore

even if i were seriously religious i wouldnt want to, for me most orthodox churches seem to be used just to justify autistic nationalist things. maybe it would be different if they weren't by state.

im not sure how anyone thinks that if god exists he would give a shit which way you cross yourself or if you have a pope or a patriarch, thats my opinion tho

>da mi bie tiq turci, tiq turci arnauti

what exactly did they mean by this

i'd be disappointed in him if he didn't make threats like a true serb

karadzic: "if you declare independence bosnians will no longer exist"
youtube.com/watch?v=9KDJ2Ud87mw

seselj: "if NATO bombs us, we will suffer, but albanians will no longer exist in kosovo"
youtube.com/watch?v=pZVNS4p8sPo

yeah empty threats like those behind a pc or comfy politician chairs

i feel bad for serbs 2bh

every country around them has genocided them except romania

did you know basically half of Greece is still under the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople rather than the Church of Greece?

Shqiptar roaches are scared:

dw.com/en/kosovo-fears-for-us-ties-under-trump/a-37186938

>Threat like a real Serb
So,make a "prediction" that won't happen
>Bosnia got independent
>Bosnians still exist
>Serbia got bombed
>Guess what happened to Albos in Kosovo

macedonia, bosnia, montenegro?

i'm talking about countries, not non-countries

and they didn't exist when the genociding happened

i was talking more about serbian orthodoxy. i dont know as much about greek's situation

either way i feel a lot more strongly about my second statement

manwhore

>>Guess what happened to Albos in Kosovo
even more poverty and even more of a failed state which is literally run by organized crime and is a hotbed for radical islam?

I'm not a fan of serves by any means, but really I don't see how anybody (let alone Kosovars) could somehow view Kosovo's independence in a positive light after seeing what their independence has actually contributed to their lives and to the world in general.

Why is everyone named Ivo such a cunt?

yeah, gotcha. I was being cheeky but unfortunately the Orthodox church fractured in a way the Catholic one didn't for historical reasons

most orthodox converts in the usa seem to be uber-traditionalists or people really interested in theology

my country is run by organized crime too but our gdp is on the rise

explain this

>More poverty
Meme.Kosovo albanians are millions times better than if they were part of Serbia.

i'd be a cunt too if i only had 3 letters in my name 2bh

I will fight against those turks, those albanian(bandit) turks

your country is part of the EU

this

im being cheeky too i dont care so much about all of that stuff. i dont like protestants though, american protestants are fucking retarded.

pic related

but why did he sing it in 100% correct bulgarian

if you think that serbian orthodoxy promoted wild nationalism, especially during the 1990s, you know shit about serbian orthodoxy

Yet Serbia will be poorer than Albania next year. I dont give a fuck about both of them 2bh, but I cannot loose the feeling that a country like Serbia, basically the reason for 8/10 wars in the region, should reconsider its own approach.

go back to reddiт, cringy kid

ok but compare it to where im coming from

go suck some russian dick, bootlicking whore

Because Prizren dialect.

t. гopд peдитop

>obsessed with sucking cock
jesus fuck i know redditors are faggots, but this much?

>that a country like Serbia, basically the reason for 8/10 wars in the region, should reconsider its own approach.
they are fucked bro, willingly. they will be ukraine tier in 10-15 years.

even super educated people are all for what they're doing geopolitics wise

don't samefag, it only makes you more cringy and awkward

I'm not sure what you mean.

Will our boy do it this year?

i don't know serbs are pretty nationalistic about orthodoxy, it's part of serbian nationalism of sorts

on the internet when i see orthodox shitting on catholics it's always serbs

Kak si novak? Svikvash li s Sup Forums?
Haresva li ti?

you have to go back

Also this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyed_Serbian_heritage_in_Kosovo

youtube.com/watch?v=rkPtPd1740o

i almost had to get in a fight in serbia for being catholic

somehow, they are italoboos at the same time

whore

sure, but the clergy itself was one of the most vocal opponents to wars in 1990s. it is part of serbian nationalism only when arguing against croats and bosniaks

because they agree that croatia shouldn't have dalmatia

I think Kosovo should annex Albania, not the other way around. Albania has had like 20 years to get their shit together now and they've still barely done shit yet babby Kosovo has already surpassed Albania in HDI, about to do so in GDP per capita, and other general living standards.

Kosovars are more pleasant, energetic, future and goal oriented than Albanians. Kosovo has more of a claim to be called the home of Albanians than Albania does tbqh.

Prove me wrong.

is anything you wrote right, though?

lets be honest the whole adriatic coast was built by italians

i can assure you that no italians aside from internet autists give a fuck about dalmatia or any of that tho, italians moved past that bullshit a long long time ago

imagine if italy sent a train to Nice this year with "Nice `e Italia" written on it kek

>sure, but the clergy itself was one of the most vocal opponents to wars in 1990s. it is part of serbian nationalism only when arguing against croats and bosniaks

of course, im not talking about the church and priests

>lets be honest the whole adriatic coast was built by italians
um, no it was not? venice didn't control eastern adriatic prior to 1358. and after the ottoman conquest she got a serious competitor in dubrovnik.

as for the italians, yes, they stopped caring after the commies gjenocided what was left of them on the coast

you're also forgetting that italy and france were built on civic rather than ethnic nationalism

italy uniting was sort of the same thing as yugoslavia except there wasnt a chimp out. im sure if you guys were more civilized people yugoslavia would still be around.

>Kosovo
>Albania

irrelevant. they can annex each others corpses to fertilize Serbian soil

i don't get the civic nationalism meme

a nation is an ethnic group, if not what's the difference?

i'll beat the shit out of you so hard one day that it'll bring your brains back

>italy uniting was sort of the same thing as yugoslavia except there wasnt a chimp out. im sure if you guys were more civilized people yugoslavia would still be around.
>what is ww2

don't ask me i'm specialized for the ottomans

not the same as italy at all

italians all over italy identified as italian and nothing else, and they rebelled against their own governments in favor of garibaldi and the savoyards

in yugoslavia no one identified as yugoslav, serbs saw yugoslavia as their mini-empire and all others wanted out

the problem was that there was no yugoslav identity

read Anthony D. Smith

>serbs saw yugoslavia as their mini-empire and all others wanted out
whoa there mr rudolf bićanić, no one asked the serbs if they wanted yugoslavia

dude, that is completely wrong. no one saw themselves as italian and today region is still >>> being italian. ethnically and linguistically someone from naples was further than someone from piedmont than a croat and a serb.

it's a hard pill to swallow but italians were more civilized in the 19th century than yugos were in the 90's

Bulgaria is the only historically relevant south slav state. Prove me wrong.
Protip: You cant

France, like Italy, China and several other countries, isn't really a single ethnic group. Of course, with time they've sorta merged into a single ethnic group, but originally France was a clusterfuck of different ethnicities. Most of them spoke Gallo-Romance languages, but even then, many of them spoke Italo-Romance languages, or even completely different languages in some cases (Breton, Basque, etc.). The only real "ethnic" component was that the central government imposed its preferred language/dialect as the standard (although, believe it or not but it isn't even the Parisian dialect which is the standard, but rather the Touraine dialect), and by extension the entire culture of Paris/Touraine gradually replaced that of other parts of France. But even then, the "core identity" was never about an ethnic group, and following the revolution it wasn't even about any religious element. This is also why the French attach such importance to their language; it's pretty much the central point of their national identity.

Isnt there a movement for an independent northern italy?

yea but it's memes and would never happen. there are some super autist northern italians on Sup Forums tho that might skew your view of it.

1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.

2. This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests.

3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh.

4. The penalty [of sin], therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

5. The pope does not intend to remit, and cannot remit any penalties other than those which he has imposed either by his own authority or by that of the Canons.

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven.

7. God remits guilt to no one whom He does not, at the same time, humble in all things and bring into subjection to His vicar, the priest.

8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to them, nothing should be imposed on the dying.

9. Therefore the Holy Spirit in the pope is kind to us, because in his decrees he always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.

10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory.

11. This changing of the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory is quite evidently one of the tares that were sown while the bishops slept.

12. In former times the canonical penalties were imposed not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.

You're 100% wrong. Italy united because Italians were a nation divided into petty states.

And what the fuck does "civilized" mean in your context? You talk like a fucking numale

13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties; they are already dead to canonical rules, and have a right to be released from them.

14. The imperfect health [of soul], that is to say, the imperfect love, of the dying brings with it, of necessity, great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater is the fear.

15. This fear and horror is sufficient of itself alone (to say nothing of other things) to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.

16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety.

17. With souls in purgatory it seems necessary that horror should grow less and love increase.

18. It seems unproved, either by reason or Scripture, that they are outside the state of merit, that is to say, of increasing love.

19. Again, it seems unproved that they, or at least that all of them, are certain or assured of their own blessedness, though we may be quite certain of it.

20. Therefore by "full remission of all penalties" the pope means not actually "of all," but only of those imposed by himself.

21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope's indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved;

22. Whereas he remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to the canons, they would have had to pay in this life.

23. If it is at all possible to grant to any one the remission of all penalties whatsoever, it is certain that this remission can be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to the very fewest.

24. It must needs be, therefore, that the greater part of the people are deceived by that indiscriminate and highsounding promise of release from penalty.

25. The power which the pope has, in a general way, over purgatory, is just like the power which any bishop or curate has, in a special way, within his own diocese or parish.

Northern and Southern Italians are as different as day and night m8, they share only the language. Basically every region ive visited in Italy is somehow unique and doesnt match the other. Take Apulia for ex, look at the architecture

26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession.

27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory].

28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone.

29. Who knows whether all the souls in purgatory wish to be bought out of it, as in the legend of Sts. Severinus and Paschal.

30. No one is sure that his own contrition is sincere; much less that he has attained full remission.

31. Rare as is the man that is truly penitent, so rare is also the man who truly buys indulgences, i.e., such men are most rare.

32. They will be condemned eternally, together with their teachers, who believe themselves sure of their salvation because they have letters of pardon.

33. Men must be on their guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to Him;

34. For these "graces of pardon" concern only the penalties of sacramental satisfaction, and these are appointed by man.

35. They preach no Christian doctrine who teach that contrition is not necessary in those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessionalia.

36. Every truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without letters of pardon.

37. Every true Christian, whether living or dead, has part in all the blessings of Christ and the Church; and this is granted him by God, even without letters of pardon.

38. Nevertheless, the remission and participation [in the blessings of the Church] which are granted by the pope are in no way to be despised, for they are, as I have said, the declaration of divine remission.

you realize they were petty states and ruled by foreigners since the roman empire broke up until the 19th century right? 'italian' is just what they spoke in tuscany.

and by civilized i mean no chimp outs, if it were in the balkans south italy would have chimped a few times, sardinia would have chimped for independence, and venice would have chimped for independence.

39. It is most difficult, even for the very keenest theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the abundance of pardons and [the need of] true contrition.

40. True contrition seeks and loves penalties, but liberal pardons only relax penalties and cause them to be hated, or at least, furnish an occasion [for hating them].

41. Apostolic pardons are to be preached with caution, lest the people may falsely think them preferable to other good works of love.

42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend the buying of pardons to be compared in any way to works of mercy.

43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work than buying pardons;

44. Because love grows by works of love, and man becomes better; but by pardons man does not grow better, only more free from penalty.

45. 45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a man in need, and passes him by, and gives [his money] for pardons, purchases not the indulgences of the pope, but the indignation of God.

46. Christians are to be taught that unless they have more than they need, they are bound to keep back what is necessary for their own families, and by no means to squander it on pardons.

47. Christians are to be taught that the buying of pardons is a matter of free will, and not of commandment.

48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting pardons, needs, and therefore desires, their devout prayer for him more than the money they bring.

49. Christians are to be taught that the pope's pardons are useful, if they do not put their trust in them; but altogether harmful, if through them they lose their fear of God.

50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the pardon-preachers, he would rather that St. Peter's church should go to ashes, than that it should be built up with the skin, flesh and bones of his sheep.

>no one saw themselves as italian
>t. history pro

51. Christians are to be taught that it would be the pope's wish, as it is his duty, to give of his own money to very many of those from whom certain hawkers of pardons cajole money, even though the church of St. Peter might have to be sold.

52. The assurance of salvation by letters of pardon is vain, even though the commissary, nay, even though the pope himself, were to stake his soul upon it.

53. They are enemies of Christ and of the pope, who bid the Word of God be altogether silent in some Churches, in order that pardons may be preached in others.

54. Injury is done the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or a longer time is spent on pardons than on this Word.

55. It must be the intention of the pope that if pardons, which are a very small thing, are celebrated with one bell, with single processions and ceremonies, then the Gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.

56. The "treasures of the Church," out of which the pope. grants indulgences, are not sufficiently named or known among the people of Christ.

57. That they are not temporal treasures is certainly evident, for many of the vendors do not pour out such treasures so easily, but only gather them.

58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the Saints, for even without the pope, these always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outward man.

59. St. Lawrence said that the treasures of the Church were the Church's poor, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.

60. Without rashness we say that the keys of the Church, given by Christ's merit, are that treasure;

61. For it is clear that for the remission of penalties and of reserved cases, the power of the pope is of itself sufficient.

62. The true treasure of the Church is the Most Holy Gospel of the glory and the grace of God.

63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last.

64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.

65. Therefore the treasures of the Gospel are nets with which they formerly were wont to fish for men of riches.

66. The treasures of the indulgences are nets with which they now fish for the riches of men.

67. The indulgences which the preachers cry as the "greatest graces" are known to be truly such, in so far as they promote gain.

68. Yet they are in truth the very smallest graces compared with the grace of God and the piety of the Cross.

69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of apostolic pardons, with all reverence.

70. But still more are they bound to strain all their eyes and attend with all their ears, lest these men preach their own dreams instead of the commission of the pope.

71. He who speaks against the truth of apostolic pardons, let him be anathema and accursed!

72. But he who guards against the lust and license of the pardon-preachers, let him be blessed!

73. The pope justly thunders against those who, by any art, contrive the injury of the traffic in pardons.

74. But much more does he intend to thunder against those who use the pretext of pardons to contrive the injury of holy love and truth.

75. To think the papal pardons so great that they could absolve a man even if he had committed an impossible sin and violated the Mother of God -- this is madness.

76. We say, on the contrary, that the papal pardons are not able to remove the very least of venial sins, so far as its guilt is concerned.

77. It is said that even St. Peter, if he were now Pope, could not bestow greater graces; this is blasphemy against St. Peter and against the pope.

78. We say, on the contrary, that even the present pope, and any pope at all, has greater graces at his disposal; to wit, the Gospel, powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written in I. Corinthians xii.

79. To say that the cross, emblazoned with the papal arms, which is set up [by the preachers of indulgences], is of equal worth with the Cross of Christ, is blasphemy.

80. The bishops, curates and theologians who allow such talk to be spread among the people, will have an account to render.

81. This unbridled preaching of pardons makes it no easy matter, even for learned men, to rescue the reverence due to the pope from slander, or even from the shrewd questionings of the laity.

82. To wit: -- "Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial."

83. Again: -- "Why are mortuary and anniversary masses for the dead continued, and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded on their behalf, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?"

84. Again: -- "What is this new piety of God and the pope, that for money they allow a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God, and do not rather, because of that pious and beloved soul's own need, free it for pure love's sake?"

85. Again: -- "Why are the penitential canons long since in actual fact and through disuse abrogated and dead, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences, as though they were still alive and in force?"

86. Again: -- "Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?"

Kosovo is macedonian

87. Again: -- "What is it that the pope remits, and what participation does he grant to those who, by perfect contrition, have a right to full remission and participation?"

88. Again: -- "What greater blessing could come to the Church than if the pope were to do a hundred times a day what he now does once, and bestow on every believer these remissions and participations?"

89. "Since the pope, by his pardons, seeks the salvation of souls rather than money, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons granted heretofore, since these have equal efficacy?"

90. To repress these arguments and scruples of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the Church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies, and to make Christians unhappy.

91. If, therefore, pardons were preached according to the spirit and mind of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved; nay, they would not exist.

92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Peace, peace," and there is no peace!

93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Cross, cross," and there is no cross!

94. Christians are to be exhorted that they be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, deaths, and hell;

95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven rather through many tribulations, than through the assurance of peace.

Yes I realize that, it doesn't change what I said, they were Italian, no matter what petty state or foreign occupation they were from you fucking brain damaged moron everyone south of the alps was Italian and spoke Italian dialects you fucking obnoxious twat

Of course they don't want independence from the motherland they fought and died to unite, that would be like Cretans wanting independence from greece

Let's imagine the Turks stopped conquering after they took control of Anatolia, lets imagine they were totally uninterested in Europe. Let's say however that Byzantium would have still fell.

What would the Balkans have come out looking like?