Mfw I realized that people only pretend to like jazz and classical

>mfw I realized that people only pretend to like jazz and classical

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Blues > jazz

This is fact

Sure, Jazz is a bit of a poseur genre at times I can see why you'd dislike it, but what is it about classical that makes you think people only pretend to like it?

its pretty gay

Well it really doesn't help that 99% of it all sounds exactly the same. There's only so many different sounds you can make with pianos and violins

Literally everyone I know that likes jazz knows how to play their instrument very well. It's a genre actually meant for playing, not so much for listening.

>There's only so many different sounds you can make with pianos and violins
You say that like timbre is the only thing that can yield an emotional response in music.

>Jazz is a bit of a poseur genre
You should stop associating music with a certain image; you are the poser in this instance.

You don't have to fake it anymore.

Convert!

The sad thing is there are probably people here who unironically think this.

Remember when nobody cared about classical on Sup Forums a year ago, but now all of a sudden everyone loves and it and is wikipeding "impressionism" while scrobbling Scriabin, Shostakovich, Schubert, and others they think are lesser known to let everyone know how cultured they are? These are the same people that see no irony in shitting all over pop, and talk about "surrealism" on RYM and mu/mu discord.

Why is Sup Forums cursed with an endless stream of poseurs?

>Remember when nobody cared about classical on Sup Forums a year ago

/classical/ has been a general for years
The first Sup Forums classical last.fm group was in 2010
The original classical essentials chart was made in 2010

>emember when nobody cared about classical on Sup Forums a year ago
No.

that's half true about jazz

it's true about some people who like classical--you can always tell them pretty quickly though because they always list off composers like Schoenberg, Stravinsky, and John Cage.

>Schoenberg, Stravinsky, and John Cage.
What's wrong with these?

youtube.com/watch?v=U8TcrMFFqJg

You are wrong

>but now all of a sudden everyone loves and it and is wikipeding "impressionism" while scrobbling Scriabin, Shostakovich, Schubert, and others they think are lesser known to let everyone know how cultured they are?

To be fair, this is actually a good thing. Competition and elitism made this board great in its heyday, it pushed people to find more niche albums and vary their interests. Sure, for some its vanity and a fake expression of real enjoyment, but that's a lesser evil than 'poptimism' to me.

This.
I don't understand why they all don't just listen to synth pop and hip hop like they all clearly want to. I mean, there's so much time they could spend listening to good music but instead they're listening to shit that nobody even enjoys.
There's so much money and time they waste learning about the music, buying records, going to concerts, etc. It just doesn't make any sense. That's without even going into all the poseurs who pretend they want to play this stuff. Some classical/jazz fans must waste half their lives or more trying to seem more intelligent. I don't get why anyone would expend all that effort just to impress other people.

A poseur will either deny, or is incapable of seeing that they are in fact, a poseur. They will contort logic and reasoning in a condescending tone to try to establish superiority and merit to their weak argument proving otherwise. It's pathetic.

This guy gets it.

>A poseur will either deny, or is incapable of seeing that they are in fact, a poseur.
Just like you.

>He doesn't listen to both hip hop and synth pop and collective improvisation

Why are you on Sup Forums?

But I never even directly said anything about myself ITT.

>a contest with ever increasing pace to see who is more a snowflake
>a good thing
>underage logic

there's nothing wrong with composers like that individually

group too many of them together, though, and it starts looking like a dude who's favorite books are:

Finnegan's Wake
Absolom! Absolom!
Infinite Jest
The Metamorphosis

--see what I'm saying? A list of "hard" or "intellectual" or "challenging" books with nothing fanciful, fun, or pleasurable even as a side-note. That guy doesn't like reading; he likes being seen with smart-seeming books.

There's noting wrong with Infinite Jest individually, and especially if you see it being paired up with something like Catch-22 or a Confederacy of Dunces, you can see where a dude is coming from. A list of anything that just jumps right to the top-shelf in terms of "intellectualism" though should set off alarms.

It says you're not having fun, which is a big red flag.

Every post in this thread is projecting so hard. I am loling. If you don't get jazz or classical that's fine but don't assume everyone is as close minded as you. There is complex and obtuse jazz, but also simple jazz, relaxing jazz, and catchy jazz that makes you want to dance

Sibelius, for instance. That's a composer who's a lot of fun to listen to, but you get absolutely no classical street cred or intelligent points from listening to him.

So when people list him, I go "okay, you're having fun."

inorite

Whats everyones favorite songs in the Billboard charts right now?

billboard.com/charts/hot-100

>He doesn't listen to both hip hop and synth pop
d- on reading comprehension
>collective improvisation
Nice maymay

kek

black beatles and starboy are well made pop songs

>mfw I realized that people only pretend to like rap and country

Jazz serves a cultural function in the music scene. It is a signifier for musical "adulthood." To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside "mere" rock music. This ostentatious display of "sophistication" is an insult, and I find the graduation cappers transparent and tedious. Certainly there must be interesting music one could call "jazz." There must be. I've never heard it, but I grant that it is out there somewhere.
Jazz has a non-musical parallel: Christiania, the "free" zone in Copenhagen. In Christiania, like in jazz, there is no law. People are left to their own inventions to create and act as they see fit. In Jazz, the musicians are allowed to improvise over and beside structural elements that may themselves be extemporaneous. Sounds good, doesn't it? Freedom -- sounds good.
The reality is much bleaker. Christiania is a squalid, trashy string of alleys with rag-and-bone men selling drugs, tie-dye and wretched food. Granted Total Freedom, and this is what they've chosen to do with it, sell hash and lentil soup? Jazz is similar. The results are so far beneath the conception that there is no English word for the dissappointment one feels when forced to confront it. Granted Total Freedom, you've chosen to play II V I and blow a goddamn trill on the saxophone? Only by willfully ignoring its failings can one pretend to appreciate it as an idiom and don the cap.

>Nice maymay

t. brainlet

That has to do with your view of art.
I don't think music has to be fun or pleasant to the ears.
But I can say I wholeheartedly enjoy it, still

I do not approve of poseurs. However I would rather see a board littered with people aiming for a higher quality of art than a standard diet fed to them from businesses/cultural trends.

It's not about being a snowflake, if anything it's more about conformity, aspiring to be as well reversed as the next person.

Just because you don't like Jazz, doesn't mean other people don't.

...

Sure.

I still get suspicious when there's nothing "easy" in someone's repertoire, though. Like Copland. No one full of shit ever reps Copland because he's easy. And Copland's fucking great.

or maybe, in a perfect world, everyone goes at their own pace and is unpretentious about they like.

this whole thing has made an ever increasing pressure to, ironically, conform in being a non conformist. so if you like avant shit, shit on pop, you fit in perfectly - a colorless conformist.

ideally, you could talk about top 40 pop, hungarian trad, and free jazz all in the same thread coming from different people, and each would be talked about in its own merit and handled with respect.

never going to happen in places like rym or mu though.

Idk. I used to think the same, but the more I listen to music the more I gravitated towards these forms of music. At first yeah I used to have the token Bach, Davis, Coltrane in my favorites. But as someone who enjoys the aural artform enough to want to dedicate my free time partaking in it, the simplicity of most of the pop stuff we talk about here just doesn't seem to cut it. The more seasoned a listener one becomes, the more they are open to picking up on the various subtleties and parts, thus classical music becomes more viable of a listening option because it offers more moving parts and subtleties than anything else.

Theres an argument being made that so much of it entails the same timbres of strings, winds, horns, and keys. But it's a far more versatile set of timbres being offered than acoustic/electric guitar, bass, drumset whose format still to this day even dominates non-rock music like hip hop.

These days I listen to mostly classical, some kind of punk/metal/industrial/noise as they offer a kind of visceral energy that classical doesn't have, electronic music which either offers a more groove oriented dance kind of music or it offers the widest set of timbres, some jazz due to what it offers in terms of musical improvisation as a medium, and folk to see originations of cultures as how cultures once used to be viewed as.

>he wasn't here during Sup Forums's Golden Age (2009/2010)

I miss the special snowflake and exploration to the shitty my pop is more mainstream than yours shite of today

>pretending it was any better back then

the only good thing was that discussion had slight levels more substance

the tourist was the early adopter of poseur-fighting and i salute, the only """""good"""" tripfag back then

This, as a guitarist I gravitate mostly towards things like metal and jazz fusion because they offer a combination of improvisation, technical mastery and energy that isn't found in a lot of other genres, other than probably classical but that's hard to play on the electric guitar unless you're Yngwie Malmsteen.

Any musician who doesn't strive to have a technical mastery of their instrument is a hack, and if you're going to have a technical mastery of your instrument then you're going to naturally gravitate towards genres like metal, jazz, folk and classical. Saying that people only "pretend" to like classical and jazz is asinine because otherwise the genres wouldn't be so prevalent towards all of our modern history.

>99% of it sounds the same

Horribly false.

I don't understand , why is this so difficult to grasp?

Like what you like. Is it so crazy to understand that someone could genuinely enjoy top 40 pop, but also genuinely enjoy classical?

I get where you're coming from and the lists you made are indicative of someone trying a little too hard to seem intelligent but without having a conversation with them about music or literature, I think you're being really presumptuous to just jump to the conclusion that they don't actually enjoy that stuff.

>I think you're being really presumptuous to just jump to the conclusion that they don't actually enjoy that stuff.

I mean yeah I'm a judgmental dude lol

>brainlet
Is this a typo? What were you trying to say?

Utopia doesn't exist.

But given the trade-off, I'd take poseurs over poptimism. I don't even hate pop, but an Anonymous message board is the worst place to talk about it, everything is a point of humour or a quotation rather than a legitimate discussion or music experience.

I refuse to believe some of the pop listened to here actually provided and beauty, healing or inspiration to the lives of the listener involved.

>'pretending it was any better back then'

It was massively better back then. Sup Forums was a powerhouse on Sup Forums.

I never said that.

I said I prefer when Sup Forums was about exploration instead of 90% top 40 memerap, waifupop and shitty radio rock.

2-4 are all pretty decent desu

Same thing as a manlet but you have a tiny brain instead of a tiny statue

name one thing wrong with Ed Sheeran

Oh! Very clever user. I'll have to use that maymay in the future.

HE'S A GINGER!

Go to bed Ed

youtube.com/watch?v=aV2r0SzovJA

>I refuse to believe some of the pop listened to here actually provided and beauty, healing or inspiration to the lives of the listener involved.


This just means you lack the life experience to get anything out of simple "just" pop. If you have to have some kind of nuance forced in a horribly unsubtle way into your music to feel anything, you're emotionally stunted.

>I'd take poseurs over poptimism
You would take people FAKING enthusiasm for music over people that genuinely enjoy what they like?

Fuck off faggot, holy shit you're a poser yourself.

The only thing wrong with there is waifupop, as it's more geared towards celeb cocksucking than the music.

I don't have an issue with memerap or radio rock as long as there's substance to the discussion.

...

i thought you kysed i take it back

I can't see myself ever suiciding

What does poseur-fighting mean anyway

theres been a severe influx of people that listen to stuff for the image, doesnt matter if the music as actually inferior to something they make sure to shit on like pop, as long as its "avant" or whatever they force themselves to like it, worst part is theyll be condescending to your sincere tastes because theyve deemed it inferior for no reason.

now, it may have always been like this, but its become worse, the trends these people follow have decreased in time, very brief from one thing to another, for instance 2 months ago it was MPB, now its a classical fad we're in the middle of right now


at this point, half of mu are the exact same as the 'crosley' tumblr type they make fun of, image obsessed and with no self awareness - they'll shit on drake, but hail animal collective when they blatantly dont know anco didnt do shit except for ripoff beach boy harmonies half of their career and do random accoustic strumming with gimmick tuning the other

how did you post a picture of a minecraft youtuber without getting banned?

Yeah that doesn't sound too different than how it used to be

>can't speak another language
>all other languages sound the same

same logic - just admit you don't understand what you're hearing, you dismissive fuck

the point is, the trends have gotten so fast that you cannot even pretend theres any substance to it

and its gotten so obvious there are people that take pride in EXCLUSIVELY listening to pop, to spite these "avant' types

theres no middle ground of sincere appreciation and recognition of talent and skill in both top 40 pop, and the more obscure experimental shit - plus, most are so vain at this point they cant differentiate the two, only go off image/obscurity as two main factors

>talks about scrobbling

guess you don't have the actual records. sad

huh? i meant more as in people that use lastfm tend to be poseurs/image oriented

younger people go through these phases - it's always been this way; if you see it on mu, that's probably just a byproduct of mu skewing younger

I don't have over 200 euro of jazz records because I pretend to like it lol, just wish I had an Ink Spots album

I listen to a lot of jazz and baroque music but I feel like I only have a surface level understanding and enjoyment of the music.
Like I feel it but I need the most energetic and discordant jazz or the most beautiful and spiritual classical in order for it be anything but elevator music. I can enjoy free jazz, avant jazz, hard bebop but not modal jazz for example since I don't really understand what I'm listening to. Anybody else felt the same way before? Any tips of how to appreciate a wider variety of music?

Simple, pay careful attention to everything instead of just kinda glossing over the stuff. Look at every single little sound, where it's coming from, where's it going, what it's trying to do, etc.

You gotta stop listening to music like you're reading a picture book and start listening to music like you're reading a real book full of words.

It can be a bit exhausting in the beginning for sure. But it comes in super easy once you get used to it kinda like going to the gym your first two weeks vs going to the gym after that.

Imagine being so insecure about your own failure to appreciate a genre of music you actually convince yourself everyone else who listens to it is just pretending to like it.

poseur self defense.

if you listen to it, youre not a poseur by default, but all poseurs do listen to it.

>Headhunters
Is that Dagoth Ur on the cover?

Most who listen to jazz don't understand it and just listen to be cool.

That being said, tons of people do get it and enjoy it, myself included

except no one sans fedora actually thinks jazz is cool

I realize this is not the place for this, but Infinite Jest is hilarious. Why should I be ostracized for being smart enough and literate enough to enjoy a book or group of books that you don't like? And furthermore, what business is it of yours whether I'm having fun? Maybe I have self-esteem issues and don't deserve fun. And FURTHERMORE if my list of things I enjoy was all fucking Dan Brown and Britney Spears you'd be telling me I'm a fucking idiot who only cares about having fun. I'm sorry I'm not at the exact right coordinates on your hedonism vs. poseurism continuum to be considered a truthful person and worthwhile conversant.

Sup Forums is so full of self-aggrandizing nerds jesus christ

Just come out and say it dude. You don't like classical music and you resent the fact that in your persecuted delusion someone might have the audacity to look down on you for enjoying music that you full well know is inferior to something like Bach or Beethoven.

Admit it.

You've pretty much only heard the top 40 of classical on the radio.

imagine -- a thread where every post is bait. remarkable.