Is it impossible to make innovative/Avant-Garde music and have it be enjoyable?

Is it impossible to make innovative/Avant-Garde music and have it be enjoyable?

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youtube.com/watch?v=lhNxvoXOKcI
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youtube.com/watch?v=04etL7ILb38
youtube.com/watch?v=7pEltqAXbdQ
youtube.com/watch?v=TOrnUquxtwA
youtube.com/watch?v=jQybgJCswF0
youtube.com/watch?v=Cx5qYm6kvw0
youtube.com/watch?v=hGTYa25VI-s
youtube.com/watch?v=7-FMglTIO30
youtube.com/watch?v=xiorncOFpcg
youtube.com/watch?v=hkV-loGS-eI
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Just use avant garde techniques to make enjoyable music. Experimental for the sake of experimental is only useful when you want to try something out that hasn't been done, but most things have and are just waiting to be used with proper application

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It's possible. Just make it 50% experimental, 50% pop. Grimes, Bjork, Kate Bush prove it you could do it.

Grimes is anything but avant-garde

>never listened to Halfaxa

Name one Avant-garde technique employed on that album

is death grips avant-garde?

experimental not avant-garde

more than Grimes

No

>more than Grimes
archive.rebeccablacktech.com/mu/thread/69759296

Bjork is not avant-garde

I really want this Grimes meme to die

how is this a meme?
why do you want it to die?

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There are avant-garde elements all over her music. This is her most avant-garde thing she ever done: youtube.com/watch?v=lhNxvoXOKcI

Actually listen to it.

Top kek

What are the "elements" exactly?

If you want that "meme" (it's not even a meme, but anyway) to die it doesn't mean it's not true...

>implying you have to use some written techniques to make cutting-edge music

Unexpected twists in her music. It could be anything from weird samples, weird sound effects, weird singing, weird melodies and beats. weird lyrics, whatever. e.g. youtube.com/watch?v=L_hFrJ-FM2o Don't tell me you heard something like this before!

these 4 already do that

>this is what Sup Forums consider Avant Garde music

This thread is embarrassing.

Report and move on.

lol

try this for weird kid
youtube.com/watch?v=6X7E2i0KMqM
grimes is pop music nothing more

tbf OP started out with go 2 entry level "avantgarde" artist stockhausen so its his/her fault

I don't think so. enjoyable music is usually diatonic and that makes it unexperimental. Perhaps a cross between pop and electro acoustic music

You are really shit at detecting bait

Stockhausen's music is extremely enjoyable, far more than most of what Sup Forums circlejerks over.

>delay pedal
>unexpected, weird,
user pls

Do you call that weird MUSIC? It's just a dude making funny sounds. Most people could understand the intention of that "piece". There are lots of similar really old fair/popular theater performances. Try again.

>grimes is pop music nothing more
I said it's half experimental, half pop. That makes her so praised.

At least he's actually Avant.
Tim Waits and some other expiry end pop stars are far from that.

*Tom
*experimental
I can't spell today.

It's not about what you used it, but how you used it.

I could say...
>Stockhausen
>tapes
Pffffffffffffft.

Literally what's the difference?

Avante-garde is diametrically opposed to "pop" music, though. They're mutually exclusive.

>They're mutually exclusive.
You could put them together in one place: pop melodies mixed with lots of avant-garde features. That's an avant-garde thing to do.

youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfpi2H8tOE

Try this on for size.
dropfile.to/GfW4vzm

you just admitted it yourself. she isn't avantgarde
experimental pop isn't avantgarde
if you wanna go that route pcmusic/sophie is "avantgarde" compared to grimes

Experimental means trying new things. Avant-garde means trying things that are not often tried.

Under that definition both Björk and Grimes are avant-garde. Also, Björk has definitely been experimental, I'm not sure about Grimes though (still listening to her discography).

That guy that said Kate Bush doesn't know what he's talking about.

thats fine because laurie made an 8 minute pop song
grimes hasn't
(You)

Avant-garde literally is about radically departing from music tradition, while pop is about reinforcing and capitalizing off norms-it's all about being recongnizable. You cannot reconcile those two things.

>Avant-garde means trying things that are not often tried

No it doesn't. Avant guarde refers to the vanguard, the front line soldiers in a war, the first to get there

The OP asked
>Is it impossible to make innovative/Avant-Garde music and have it be enjoyable?
I believe it's NOT possible to make 100% avant-garde music and be enjoyable. So, the compromise is to introduce pop features (more or less). Grimes, Kate Bush, Bjork did it the other way: they introduced avant-garde features in their pop music. That's the only way to make experimental music enjoyable, by taming it with something pleasant.

>if you wanna go that route pcmusic/sophie is "avantgarde" compared to grimes
Now we're have a measuring contest, who's more avant-garde? It depends on the listener. IMO Sophie = trash music anyway.

normal melodies with some expressionistic qualities combined with babbys first digital delay and loops. nice, but not particularly avant garde if you ask me (and you didnt ask)

>Report and move on
unfortunately being a pleb isn't a bannable offense

>That guy that said Kate Bush doesn't know what he's talking about.
I said it. Apparently you didn't listen to her weirder albums such as The Dreaming, Never For Ever, Lionheart and The Kick Inside.

(You)

What Avant-garde features? You still have not specifically pointed them out.

You could. Simply have pop sounds mixed with peculiar, unheard of sounds. Expected and unexpected in the same song.

Except grimes does not produce unexpected, peculiar sounds.

Whatever you say dude, but you still didn't post something similar to that song, Omega. If you believe that has been done before ("normal melodies with some expressionistic qualities combined with babbys first digital delay and loops" my ass) then you better post it. Go ahead.

>Tom Waits
>pop

Have you ever once listened to his music?

you just have to have the right mindset and take some time to get used to it

>Except grimes does not produce unexpected, peculiar sounds.
Say what? Apparently you didn't listen to her music. Just some random examples to prove my point:
youtube.com/watch?v=FTvanzhR6ok
youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYRUYnr5bA
youtube.com/watch?v=04etL7ILb38
youtube.com/watch?v=7pEltqAXbdQ

These songs are unique. Prove me wrong.

I did listen to these albums but in terms of composition I didn't recall hearing anything avant-garde or experimental.

Might just need to listen again though. It's been a while.

>thread about avant-garde music
>turns into a Grimes thread

This place is worst then reddit.

and?
so are these songs youtube.com/watch?v=TOrnUquxtwA
youtube.com/watch?v=jQybgJCswF0

try again loser!

Radiohead

This board is one of the worst places to discuss music

Oh wow, random vocal samples thru delay and reverb. This is what me and my bandmates do after we smoke too much weed and can't concentrate on actually making music any more.

This kinda shit hasn't been 'experimental' or 'avant-garde' since 50s tape music kiddo.

>thread about avant-garde music
Actually not. That's not the complete picture. There's the keyword "enjoyable" and that's related to pop too. Grimes is a perfect example ITT, being pop and experimental.

>this is what Sup Forums consider Avant Garde music
>reading comprehension
50% pop, 50% experimental, dumbass

I think a big part of the enjoyment the brain gets from music is due to a reward from correct prediction, so if you totally break away from all harmonic and rhythmic convention then people will naturally find it harder to enjoy. Might take 100 listens for someone to be able to "predict" (remember) the whole thing and enjoy it.

There are about a thousand better examples of experimental pop music than Grimes.

using those exact words
youtube.com/watch?v=Cx5qYm6kvw0
this is exactly what you're looking for

>Oh wow, random vocal samples thru delay and reverb.
This is all you heard? Try again.

>This is what me and my bandmates do after we smoke too much weed and can't concentrate on actually making music any more.
The main point is that music must be good or at least decent. You could make some random crap and call that experimental, but who will pay attention to your experimental crap? Regarding Grimes, lots of people listen to her music.

>This kinda shit hasn't been 'experimental' or 'avant-garde' since 50s tape music kiddo.
That's a different kind of avant-garde, son. You couldn't make that stuff in the 50s. Prove me wrong.

>There are about a thousand better examples of experimental pop music than Grimes.
Name 20 of them.

pop is engineered to be enjoyable but no, you don't have to make pop to make enjoyable music. at all. this is bullshit, fuck off

WHat? I'm not that other guy. You want me to post something similar to grimes?

This dude understands what music is about. Liking something is about predicting patterns. When everything falls into place, the brain feels rewarded (dopamine and stuff). Some avant-garde features could make the brain messing the prediction for a little while, but that only enhances the overall result. That's why the music of Bjork, Grimes and Kate Bush sounds so rewarding, enjoyable and it stands multiple plays.

Arca
dean blunt
opn
james ferraro
inga copeland
Trst
a.g. cook
sophie
totalfreedom
Kelela
Cocteau twins
Lotic
Jessy Lanza
FKA Twigs
Janelle Monáe
blood orange
washed out
todd rundgren
kraftwerk
arthur russell
ariel pink
panda bear

list goes on and on bb

Thanks for reminding me this board is infested with clueless philistines.

I don't care if you're not the other guy, there was a challenge ("Don't tell me you heard something like this before!") in my post. You replied to it, so you should have been aware of it.

>You want me to post something similar to grimes?
Not only similar to Grimes, but similar to that song Omega: youtube.com/watch?v=L_hFrJ-FM2o

Good luck!

Explain grime.

you still haven't posted anything that sounds likegood luck!

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Only Kraftwerk and Cocteau Twins (apparently Grimes' biggest influences), plus Janelle Monae (she collaborated with Grimes on Venus Fly), could claim to be on par with her, the rest are way worse.

Spliced tapes and spring reverb would get you there.

Also you wouldn't know who Grimes was if she only made shit like this.

>said the biggest philistine, while eating a big bag of chips and watching cheap soap opera

not an argument
explain to me one by one why they aren't experimental pop

sick burn

washed out though? blood orange, ariel hm..

Omarion is a once in a cycle avant garde talent, and we will probably never experience anyone or anything close to his level of ability.

Just listen to his new single.

youtube.com/watch?v=hGTYa25VI-s

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>Spliced tapes and spring reverb would get you there.
Really? Good luck inventing sounds that could be made only by synths (the few synths in the 50s were trash). Good luck manipulating samples in the way they were manipulated in the song Eight using just spliced tapes and spring reverb.

not an argument when you only single out 3 artist
thats not an majority bb

Yes, just look at Spencer Clark and James Ferraro. You have never heard anything like this before and its quite of a pleb filter but the music itself is etheral and not really that abrasive.

No I meant it, just those three I know aren't exactly experimental

>explain to me one by one why they aren't experimental pop
I'm not saying the other ones aren't experimental pop, I'm just saying they're way worse than Grimes. Your argument was:
>There are about a thousand BETTER examples of experimental pop music than Grimes.
Better? Think again.

>sick burn
Do you call drinking a glass with cold water a sick burn? Whatever...

youtube.com/watch?v=7-FMglTIO30
youtube.com/watch?v=xiorncOFpcg

key faggot :)

>Ferraro is worse
that ugly gremlin doesn't even deserve to have her name spoken in the same sentence as Ferraro.

find me songs that sound like this
youtube.com/watch?v=hkV-loGS-eI
youtube.com/watch?v=NXtzcViZPGA
youtube.com/watch?v=1N6EecRJu60

I think OP means more of an immediate and accessible enjoyment, not just something autists find enjoyable.

>said the ugly and plebby ferraro fanboy

God tier!

youtube.com/watch?v=nIDnN34ZZaE

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>thinking that a bit of tribal rhythm would make these tunes similar to Omega
Do you even ears, nincompoop?

>ugly and plebby
Speak for yourself grimescuck