Using human bodies as batteries

>using human bodies as batteries
>the amount of energy they emit is a tiny fraction of the energy required to keep them fed

Why was the Matrix film allowed to be made?

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We actually produce a lot of energy. 6 billion equivalent batteries would be more than enough

>the matrix was all a computer simulation, hence why Neo had super powers outside of the "cells"

Not if you feed them liquefied dead humans. Shit sustains itself.

writers changed it from computing to power because they thought people wouldnt understand

It's assuming that computer have the 3 aprior rules of robotics so they couldn't kill humans and had to do what they commanded and could't disobey a humans command and this is just a loophole, so they also use the "energy" which could also include heat, as a sort of thermal nuclear power, just because that's not what they were meant for.

It was just a loophole to control them, not use them as batteries.

>We actually produce a lot of energy

I think you missed the part where

>the amount of energy they emit is a tiny fraction of the energy required to keep them fed

It doesn't matter how much energy they produce since you have to spend even more energy to keep them alive to produce energy in the first place. At absolute best if you had a perfectly efficient mechanism for supplying them the energy needed to keep them alive with zero waste you would approach breaking even and having an amount of energy generated equal to the energy spent instead of less than. Which you could accomplish by just not trying to harvest energy from them in the first place.

For a generation that used AOL dial-up and had no idea what a web-browser was, makes sense.

>what is physics?
Converting energy ALWAYS comes at a loss. Whatever energy (food, heat) the machines were giving the humans is necessarily greater than the amount the humans produced, so the machines would have been better off skipping the humans altogether.

We already know that Zion's knowledge of what's going down is inaccurate, why wouldn't this be as well?

Thus is the problem of entropy. But you assume that the robots are using us as batteries as the PRIMARY function, and not because they CAN'T kill all humans.

Also it provided a sweet line and scene of morpheous holding a battery

The Matrix is more and more of inevitability as human population density rises and rises, since it's an easy way to solve the behavioral sink and don't die en masse.

Yeah, because if they stuck with the orignal script, he would have said something lame and been holding a microchip.

WE WAS COMPUTERZ.

Why couldn't they? It actually seems like a way better idea

>they CAN'T kill all humans

Why the fuck not?

>inb4 they were "programmed not to," if you're sentient enough to have meaningful conversations with humans and orchestrate complicated agendas involving fake worlds and waging war against resistance fighters than you're way past the point of being autistic enough to slavishly follow a rule you were programmed with

The original thing the machines do to humans was too complicated for audiences according to execs and they dumbed it down.

Then the movie has the equally bad flaw of having main characters who are too dumb to recognize how dumb the human battery explanation is.

Oh that would have worked just as good actually.

Because murricans arent taught basic science and wont even notice the problem.

Nor are we taught history.

Or critical thinking.
...or the arts & humanities.

We're taught shit, straight out of cirriculums from the 1800s, and it shows in every area of our society.

Why didn't they use cows or elephants instead of people?

Mate entropy's a matrix lie

Otherwise human minds are good at doing a bunch of things machines struggle with at least on our current knowledge

>thread

Human brains as a component in a neural network to get additional computing power was to hard for the general population to understand.

Its a metaphor for machines having control over humans

The whole trilogy is about the human spirit overcoming control from another force

You shouldn't be allowed to post in forums like these if you are going to take everything literally

The humans blocked out the sun and killed all life trying to stop the machines. Fucking stupid.

Are you sure it's a not a metaphor for realizing that the body you were born in is not the body you have to have?

Maybe we ere more than energy

Because they can't kill their parents

Umm that too but the thread is about the power generation thing.

Doesn't matter why they humans are trapped in the matrix or how they got there is pretty much a macguffin

It's hard wired into robotics in movies and tv shows so much we don't even think twice about it really.

>A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
>A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
>A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

This is what the machines do in every movie or TV show.

This is not just obscure thing, this pre-dates the first robot used in movies, and is used more or less in real life as much as it is in Movies.

If they were just using humans as Batteries, why even have them living in 7 different fake worlds PREVIOUSLY? There was obviously something deeper then just human potatoes from the first movie.

It could be they could evolve and change in anyways, but it is assumed those 3 laws are IMMUTABLE by machines, and the fact that a million humans were fighting the machines to shut them down, which could kill say billions of humans gives them the weird conflict in that law to kill them.

Machines can follow the third rule by killing if it exceeds lives saved vs lives killed. Why would they kill Zion. The using humans as batteries thing is a lame excuse and not given by the Robots, but the humans. Mistaking higher orders for the most basic part of the computer they know.

Everything from thermal nuclear to geothermal would have been better. Even wind and water power.

They were solar before, but they obviously survived, who knows if that was accurate at all.

We do know the machines shut down in the end, thus following the 2rd law of robotics. It's dumb yes, but with Smith threatening the humans in the matrix, the Deus Ex had to allow Neo the 2nd law because it served the 1st law.

are you not able to read? you fucking idiot

This.

What are metaphors?

I would think using humans as a power source wouldn't be the primary function, but if you think about what our thinking is is electricity, you can even surmise that mistaking the electricity they harvest is for raw energy as opposed to the computational power that it generates actual.

As well as they all have jobs in the matrix more or less.

Has anybody actually watched this movie? The energy wasn't biological energy coming off of human bodies. The machines were harvesting humans' meme magic in the matrix. They were incapable of creating their own, so they needed the humans running in a controlled simulation.

There was literally a human-machine war. The machines won. Do you think they could have won the war without killing humans?

>The robots wouldn't have colonized the moon or something for solar power.

>Wouldn't just about anything make more sense to use as a battery than a human body? Like a potato? Or a battery?

It's like a super intelligent lava lamp.
Metaphor for our brains are batteries.

>create shit, unintelligent writing
> "it's a metaphor"

There was literally a human-machine war.
Do you see humans gone extinct?

By "protecting" humans they can justify "killing" humans. This is only needed if they, like all machines since before robots existed, followed the laws of robotics.

Even the most basic machines used in a manufacturing follow the 3 laws of robotics. When you stick your arm in an elevator door it doesn't crush it. That is the laws of robotics.

You didn't watch the movie at all did you?

The machines did plenty of killing

Notice the digging tools they had, I think they went geothermal. It's best power source.

>our brains are batteries
>machines never once said they use us for electrical power

they didn't want to, i think the movies showed that the machines weren't pure evil. weren't previous matrix's utopias, but humans didn't accept them as real so they didn't work out so instead the created a matrix that was instead the pinnacle of human civilization "1999." the machines didn't have to do that, they could have put them in a dark ages simulation if they wanted to probably.

So thermodynamics are a lie? Then what rules the real world? Magic?

There are more stories of machines violating the 3 laws of robotics by the guy who made the 3 laws of robotics. Hence the term LOOPHOLE.

It's not impossible to violate it, but the movies do show clearly the trope existing on some level or another. The fact they shut down in the end is almost game set match.

no, they had to change it from humans as processors to humans as batteries, because it infringed on another work.

Copyrights are cancerous

But that's essentially the same thing as what batteries are, is what our thinking is. there is no other process that goes on when we think beyond electricity, the biochemical compound just affects moods.

Morpheus claim himself it was electricity from our heat, much like a thermoelectric plant. He even mentions it's measured in BTU's.

Which is stupid since they could of build actual thermoelectric plants to get electricity from the earths core or near a volcano or even some sattlelites and getr above the nano cloud thingy that blocked the sun.

>It doesn't matter how much energy they produce since you have to
The human machine has been evolving for over millions of years. The machines they created had only been in existence for just a few centuries. Metabolism (ATP->ADP+N) ranks in the top among energy production efficiency, even if it is only ~18-22% efficient.

tl;dr - The machines pulled a China, and ripped off an already proven design to use for their own benefit.

My question is: Would they have just ended the whole harvesting program after they built solar panels above the cloudline, or would they have kept them around for their amusement a la Agent Smith?

>Morpheus
Machines never claimed this is what humans were for.

They are not protecting us, they own us. Cattle. Any rancher can shoot and eat their cattle but that means fuckinf up the bussiness and starving afterwards.

Machines use us, that's it

Doubtful they would have stuck to Solar Power since that's what they used before,
Agent Smith was the reason they shut it down.

maybe they did? who says human were their source of energy? granted, i don't think it was mentioned they did this in the movie, but still, they never said humans were their only source.

That actually totally changes the philosophy from "the big corporate machine" is using us for our energy = labor vs. we are being used for our ideology/minds... which is a bit more all encompassing and complex

>the amount of energy they emit is a tiny fraction of the energy required to keep them fed

the machines also use brain power as in human brain computing power which results in much larger yields, most of what human eat is infact burned by the brain which doesn't actually produce any kinetic energy like a muscle, machines however could have a lot of use for that computing power

did you plebs even pay attention to what morpheus was saying?

> "The human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 BTU's of body heat. Combined with a form of fusion the machines had found all the energy they would ever need."
> Combined with a form of fusion
> a form of fusion

machines probably stole shitty early fusion from humans and used the matrix to help augment it

The same reason you eat food you don't really need: because you can.

we eat food we dont need because we like it

>Agent Smith was the reason they shut it down.
He was just a overzealous program that was to be killed in the reboot/reinstall. Ironic, due to the fact his existence is the reason the machines decided to stop the cycles.

But as the other guy said, the machines had objectives to complete in the Matrix, so do you think they would of kept the humans around? My guess is yes, due to the fact they were a 'growing' species and just as we had done in creating AI, Pandora's curiosity and desire to keep learning would have kept the AI learning about its creators. The flip side is no better either, because if they transferred all the machines to the real world, they essentially just would of traded places with the humans and been faced with the same basic problems such as sustainability, vast numbers/reproduction, etc etc.

>A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Replace the word "human" with "cow" and it's the same law. This is what ranchers do. Machines that are superior to us, will be more like ranchers/gods then equals obviously.

This is interesting because the matrix does being up some hinduist beliefs into mix.

All ranchers do shoot and eat their cattle. That's what cattle are for. You just can't kill ALL the cattle. So when it comes to "human being" it's seen as a broadest term possible, and not the individual. The survival of the human being must continue because that's what the first law says.

This is why it should say a robot may not injure ANY human being, since robot after a singularity will not see each robot as an individual but as a collective whole and may see a human being as the same thing, a collective whole and not a series of individuals. It would be egocentric, to the definition.

The 3 laws isn't something it would feel emotional about, but just tasks it would have to obey, like the constitution. The government on every level and society as a whole has to obey it, but people are ALWAYS trying to get around it.

the machines liked us, they just wanted to stop the wars and their enslavement perpetrated by humans.

What if they used Goku as a battery? Could Goku get redpilled if he was in the Matrix?

but essentially the same thing, since our brains are just emitting electircity it would pick up to read our thoughts, just the same.

You could say morpheus just misinterpret it, because we obviously connect our brains to the matrix in the movie, so it is reading the 'electrical' impulses.

>Not knowing basic chemistry
>Conservation of energy
//Thread//

youtube.com/watch?v=IojqOMWTgv8
At least, Morpheus was convinced it was their only energy source. But, we all know, he was a fanatic convinced Neo was the one, but he was wrong at that.

If we follow the thesis of Smith being the one.

It's the ultimate utopia.

Everyone wake up

disagreed.

Movie is a shoddily constructed allegory of the cave (which in itself, is already a shitty allegory)

It has the philosophical musings of a middle schooler and the only saving grace it has is style.

>Duracell™
Stopped watching there.

Huh. Your point makes it sound like there are exceptions to the 3 rules of robotics: they are meant for the collective and not the individual

But those laws ARE meant for individuals, that's why we already have drones that target and kill people, they simply cannot have those 3 rules since they were designed and built to kill humans.

I think the real thing to look at is,were teh computer evolving. I doubt they were growing the same as humanity would have, since the core programming wouldn't have been made for an infinte expansion and growth like humans have the capacity for.

robots don't really care about colonies on mars, and the exploration of deep space. They seemed to just be happy with harvesting humans, and expanding along earth while making cool VR.

As a singularity, it would have been focusing all energy to the Matrix. Where as humanity as a set of individuals all have different tasks that go parallel to each other and usually do benefit synergistically. It's not perfect, but it's not the same hivemind that only focuses on a single tasks, without asking WHY are we doing this.

The laws of robotics would at least conflict at some times, and make the machine inefficient, maybe even more so then humans would be.

But for all we know, they already had probes for colonization sent out to millions of solar systems like the empire looking for the rebel base.

I feel like I've seen a parody before with the energizer bunny in that scene

it didn't actually show Duracell, just

>THE COPPER TOP™

>hating the duracell scene

trying too hard m8

It was the test audience who were too dumb. They didn't understand that the machines were using humans as processors so they switched it to batteries. With all the metadata these days that story line would have been far more relevant.

>liking obvious product placement
Fuck off Mr. Goldstein

Should have used cows

I think the machines couldn't justify genocide so this was their compromise. Animatrix fleshes this out a bit IIRC.

>Ok guys here's our fool proof plan. The machines rely on solar power, so we'll block out the sun!
>Don't we need the sun too, for like crops and stuff?
>Fuck off.
>And also, these are incredibly advanced sentient machines. Can they really not figure out how to build a nuclear power plant, or a hydroelectric dam, or even just burn some fucking coal?
>I said FUCK OFF.

They can, because a Singularity, like the terminator, or whatever happened in teh matrix, is a point when computer intelligence goes beyond humanity's capacity.

The Singularity, as the name implies, makes Robots, all as one.

There is Individuals.

Just an Individual.

In the Matrix it was named Deus Ex.

In Terminator it was called Skynet.

It's just one 'person'. All the machines, all the robots, all the squids, all the individual moving parts of the entire planet of endless fields of human 'batteries' is ran and operated by ONE being.

The Matrix, was in some ways the first time it would have had conflicting personalities. Individuals, plural. But those are virtual, computers, artificial intelligence.

Computers are not the same as Robots.

So the Deus Ex in the matrix movie was one sentient of the entire Machine world.

>But those laws ARE meant for individuals, that's why we already have drones that target and kill people, they simply cannot have those 3 rules since they were designed and built to kill humans.

The laws were MADE by individuals and ARE made for individuals.

But if you were to follow those laws without being an individual, as in you were "born" as being a singular, like Skynet, you wouldn't be applying it to individuals, since you are singular. The rules don't STATE it's for individuals. You know it's that way, since all life on earth has empathy.

Except machines. Machines don't have empathy. that's what Egocentric means.

As an Egocentric person you think that lions think and act like you do. As a computer, you'd be able to program EXACTLY how a lion works, because that's how you function, it's all command lines.

So as a Egocentric Singular Sentient life Born only even knowing the Singular life the 3 Laws would seem odd if you applied to each individual, and NOT the collective whole.

As Skynet you'd probably even say

>But those laws ARE meant for collective whole

Maybe they just realized we couldn't live in harmony with them and put us in the Matrix "For our own good"

they didn't need to justify anything, they won.

It was a survival war though, they needed to win no matter what or the humans would have destroyed them. The machines wanted peace from the beggining, they even settled in an isolated island but maintained commercial relations.

Then the attacks began, eventually destroying the atmosphere to prevent sunrays from getting to the Earth. It was completely clear that humans had to be stopped no matter what.

Then humans as a war compensation rejected their legal subject status and became legal objects, so machines could do whatever they wanted with them

They could even regard "individuals" as the collective sum of a populces. As in the "hivemind". So even if it was made for individuals, it sees the rules as applying to all the individuals, collectively.

A robot, is all the robots, and A human being, is all the human beings, as a collective whole of individuals that make teh sum total of that unique and distinctive species.

We must not kill all of the human beings as a sum total.

It could be the First Law is talking against genocide, more then murder.

your right to liquifie a human you need a chemical reaction way too much energy used there and the electricity you make when you swing your arm 50000 times a day 2 inches in supercoinductor fluid makes no static electricity im pulling things outta my ass as i think about them is it that hard for you to think for 1 second?

So since the humans would die off since we can't grow food beyond mushrooms, the Matrix had to made to save use, thus following the first Law of Robotics.


most likely.

>a chemical reaction
it's called bacteria, you'd just need any amount of heat.
That's how nature DO. We have a complex immune system to STOP this from happening.

Putrefaction is the 5th stage in the process of decomposition following Pallor Mortis, Algor Mortis, Rigor Mortis and Livor Mortis. This process references the breaking down of a body of a human or animal after death. In broad terms, it can be viewed as the decomposition of proteins and the eventual breakdown of the cohesiveness between tissues and the liquefaction of most organs. This is caused by the decomposition of organic matter by bacterial or fungal digestion, which creates the release of gases that infiltrate the body's tissues and leads to the deterioration of the tissues and organs.

This

Rewatched the Matrix and rolled my eyes at the "Scorching the sky" bit, what the fuck does that even mean?

Why did Neo have super powers in the real world?

were they in another level of the Matrix?

What was the other work?

Can Neo beat Superman?

He didn't have powers in the real world really. He just could emit codes that caused sentries to explode. He became more of a transmitter than a demi-god

Being REALLY smart, isn't the same as being able to build a nuclear power plant.

I mean... computer can already calculate faster than any human ever, but still can't open a can of pop.

You think Trekkies are Autistic, how autistic do you think a computer Singularity would be.

LITERALLY OFF THE CHARTS. IT WOULD REDEFINE AUTISTIC.

some people wounder if a computer gained singularity if it would even be functional at all, and not just lost in it's own virtual world, LIKE MATRIX, but just forever lost in a world of a fantasy of math and numbers that don't even equate to real world applications, just fancy "fractal" math.

that's retarded

How would the matrix look now seeing as it's not 1999 anymore and the internet is better?

Obviously. He could see even.