Daily Reminder That Vinyl Is Obsolete

and that all you faggots listening to it are literally retarded. Thanks for propping up a shitty music industry.

wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

The word "better" is subjective, based on personal experiments,comparisons and observations, and in the case of sound quality is very personal. We could make the statement "CD sounds better than Vinyl" and the previous statement would apply.

Nah. The audio being reproduced from a vinyl record is objectively lower quality than the source material. You cannot rely on a medium made of fragile plastic, played by having a diamond needle dragged across it, to reliably hold your high quality audio.

The dB and frequency response ranges of Vinyl are objectively worse than other formats, meaning you literally are not hearing the music that the artist recorded.

Actually, calculating objective sound qualities of the sound (like PSNR, MSE, compression coefficient) is kind of missing the point. Human hearing apparatus is far from being perfect, and all the approximations of "what's the best for sound objectively" come from mathematical operations usually done on soundwave approxiamtions through white/pink noise and sine waves. The psychoacoustic tests that are done on these simple types of stochastic signals and sound waves are usually showing a correlation between objective quality descriptors and what people think is best, but when it comes to such extremely complex waveforms as a musical piece, the tests often display a sort of dissonance between what should we percieve as best (the least compression, best SNR, least linear distortion) and what most test subjects hear as the best.

Therefore it's neigh on impossible to find one "objective" best way to listen to music, as the perception of quality of sound files/storage media containing music is much more based in subjective things.

tl;dr: what actually can be calculated as best and what is often perceived as best in audio is of low correlation

I quoted the link that you posted, retard

You're completely missing the point. The vinyl medium is flawed, therefore using it is ignorant. As a musician that just recorded a record with an entirely analog signal chain, from tape to vinyl, I can tell you without a doubt that the vinyl reproduction is of lower quality than the digital files. There are frequencies missing from the source material; as an artist, this is not producing the finest finished product for consumers. The industry, on the other hand, loves selling idiots vinyl because they stand to make a larger cut.

no, you are missing the point.

>The vinyl medium is flawed, therefore using it is ignorant.
Every medium is in some capacity flawed. The digital reproductions are limited by the sampling rate and quantization levels of the signal, which means that you will NEVER be able to reproduce the full signal perfectly digitally (see Shannon's sampling theorem) and the quantization levels, and even the way you space them (linearly, logarythmically, combination of both) can give you vastly different, from objective standpoint, results. Just like vinyl is flawed, digital isn't ideal either.

>As a musician that just recorded a record with an entirely analog signal chain, from tape to vinyl, I can tell you without a doubt that the vinyl reproduction is of lower quality than the digital files.
What about linear distortion of preamps and amplifiers? Frequency response of unideal filters in your audio processing system? It may very well not be the fault of vinyl as a medium that it sounds worse, but imperfections of the devices/system you used to transfer signal from tape to vinyl.

Frequencies missing is mostly the fault of the filters and the AD convertor in digital system. You usually HAVE to cut off frequencies at some point.

It just became a billion dollar industry. Keep whining, faggot.

At 48kHz, 24 bits, I can almost 100% say that no one will be able to tell any objective differences between analog source material and a digital file. It's like saying you can tell the difference between a lacquer and a poly finish on an electric guitar. What I'm saying is that vinyl is objectively more flawed than a digital file or even a CD. As a medium, vinyl is destroyed a little bit more every time you listen to it. Additionally, the source tape will disintegrate eventually unless kept in a vault. Digital files and their copies will exist until electricity runs out.

I can tell you without a doubt that the hardware used on this record was top of the line, and the hardware used in the mastering and pressing processes was also some of the best and done by some of the best people. The fact of the matter is that you do HAVE to cut frequencies - if you're producing vinyl. The medium cannot handle sub bass frequencies or ultra-high end.

People just like having a more physical relationship with their music stop being an asshole.

Yeah and keep buttering up the fat cat, non-musician, non-artist, business school asshats running the music industry, you fucking retard.

And people that smoke cigarettes just like having an oral fixation. Still not going to stop telling them they're fucking stupid.

What's the point of this comparison?
Consuming Vinyl harms people?

>comparing a nicotine addiction to having a boner for physical mediums of audio
what the fuck are you on right now?

It's responding to the attitude of "yeah well people like it stop being an asshole"

I don't give a shit if people like it, they're being ignorant and that hurts everyone. Ignorance doesn't just stop at one thing. If you really want to get into it, vinyl is petroleum based plastic and producing that literally does harm everyone while propping up a industry that gives zero shits about the music people are listening to.

so is coal power and happiness but we still find a lot of that

Why are you even arguing over this.

Digital will never go away, you can listen to it all day, vinyl isn¨t baad it doesn't damage any one, if something their existence increases the ways you can consume and listen to music.

>manufacturing X hurts everyone!
Welcome to industry. That car you drive? Hurts everyone and the environment to manufacture and use one of them. Plastics used, chemicals inside, and petroleum derived fuel to power it? it hurts worse than a shitty disc of plastic with music on it.

Okay so vinyl is good because... it exists?

>"it doesn't hurt anyone"

Just explained that it does. Ignorance is bad for everyone.

You can recycle vinyl, just don't throw your wax out.
And I doubt you can say that about Fat Beats Records, Stones Throw, 180 Proof, or most labels pressing wax nowadays. Matter fact, if anything, the people who put it on wax care more about it than anyone else, vinyl is a collector medium, with the exception the obvious money bait daddy rock re-pressings.

i swear im gonna bankrupt these cucks

It's a different way to listen to music, it is more personal for some people.

Fake news

You seem upset. Did you ruin your limited pressing of In The Aeroplane Over The Sea, faggot?

I know you guys are autistic but you do realize that vinyl came back because it's collectable and hip kids with too much money can display it right?

vinyl is objectively inferior to other mediums, yes.

but vinyl looks fuckin cool

I don't listen to vinyl often but I do collect vinyl records. The way I see it, it's a cool way of supporting the bands you like and getting some kind of collector's item / piece of artwork of a band you like.
I don't think they sound better I just like them. It looks cool.
Also, OP, stop being triggered by what other people do. Don't be 12 years old.

You need to listen to Hi Scores 2014 in vinyl tho, so much better than the digital counterpart

See, I fucking refuse to pay for digital music, and if you live in a 3rd world country like me, you may never have the chance to see your favourite artist live.
So the only thing you can do to support your favourite artist is to boy special or somehow collectible editions of their albums, a.ka vinyl

Here's my argument against buying vinyl to "support the artists": Vinyl is fucking expensive to produce. Getting 200 - 500 copies of a record pressed with a full color jacket and quality, virgin vinyl can cost $3000+ and take months, while 500 CDs costs less than $1000. Bands don't make as much profit off of a vinyl record. If you want to support the artists you should be buying FLACs off their Bandcamps, so they get almost all the money.

Thing is I also like the way it looks in my bedroom. I like having the huge covers of albums I like.
I pay for digital music already, support isn't my only reason. I mean I can see how you'd think people who buy it because "It sounds better" is stupid but you can collect almost anything. Some people collect spoons, but I don't like spoons, I like music.

I get those reasons and respect them. But why not just buy high quality digital copies of the music you like, and either buy or download and print out/frame/whatever your favorite art? Getting a vinyl jacket print is like $2

So why they keep making vinyl records anyway? I don't think a fan will simply stop supporting them just because they don't release their albums in vinyl.

Because one day when I have an actual good record player that doesn't fuck up my vinlyls I would totally enjoy playing them for the hell of it and the feel of the needle in the record. I just dig them.

Because managers and record labels and publicists and fans demand vinyl. The artists largely do not want it. Engineers and producers think it's hilarious that people will pay $30 for a digital recording stamped into plastic.

Non-issue. You get a FLAC download with your record purchase anyway.

Also this

But I thought the record labels bank the production of physical format, not the artist?

Also you might want to back the following statement up:

>The artists largely do not want it

Record labels front artists tens of thousands of dollars to get things moving. This is used for everything from touring expenses to physical production costs to wardrobe. The artists then have to pay this back or the label writes it off as a loss in a few years.

This looks like more of a major label issue, where the artists are pretty much slaves.

As an artist in a band signed to a successful indie label that just recorded an all analog record that is being pressed to the highest quality vinyl, I can say that I do not want vinyl copies of the record. It's fucking expensive and just encourages a market that isn't profitable for other artists.

So the source is yourself? Even if it's true, it does not mean much.

Sorry, you're wrong. There are independent labels with humongous bankrolls, sometimes from people within larger labels. Any artist signed to a label that you are aware of has probably been through this process, unless they're wise to it.

You're making this up. It is possible for a vinyl to sound better than cd because if the masters are 24 bit 96k, vinyl can handle that but CDs cant. Source: a mastering engineer interview I read a few days ago

Nah. Look up the RIAA EQ Curve. Vinyl records have the lowest lows and highest highs removed, and the audio is mastered differently in order to accommodate the shortfalls of vinyl. CDs can handle whatever file you want to put on them, consumer audio hardware cannot. You can put some 192kHz songs on a CD if you want, but good luck hearing the difference or finding something to play it on.

>Look up the RIAA EQ Curve. Vinyl records have the lowest lows and highest highs removed, and the audio is mastered differently in order to accommodate the shortfalls of vinyl.

That's not really what the RIAA curve does.

>You can put some 192kHz songs on a CD if you want, but good luck hearing the difference or finding something to play it on.

Nope, your usual Red Book CDs is strictly 44.1kHz (22k per channel) and 16-bit depth. Higher fidelity standards exist, but in the end they end up being the same price as a vinyl record, which can have the upper hand to be used high fidelity sources.

>A recording is made with the low frequencies reduced and the high frequencies boosted, and on playback the opposite occurs. The net result is a flat frequency response, but with attenuation of high frequency noise such as hiss and clicks that arise from the recording medium. Reducing the low frequencies also limits the excursions the cutter needs to make when cutting a groove.

Pretty much is

And I'm aware of the Red Book standards. What I was saying is that a CD is just a piece of digital media that can be loaded with whatever files you want.

this is a very reddit post

Fuck you buddy. Go be 16 and smarter than everyone else somewhere else.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Bands want their music on vinyl.

Why? Because it sounds better? That's not true. Because it's more profitable? Also not true. Outside of pressure from fans and labels, there's no good reason to sell vinyl records.

That may be true but that doesn't mean people don't want records pressed. It's a kind of an affirming thing when someone wants to spend the money to put your music on vinyl. I'm also having a record made and there's no pressure. They just asked if I wanted to do it and I said yeah.

Also if a label's doing it doesn't cost you anything to have records made. So you wait a few months and then have something to sell at shows. Just because you're autistic and think you're smarter than everyone doesn't mean everyone thinks like that.

>the I can't afford vinyls/mummy wont buy me what I want so I'll oppose it the post

>Also if a label's doing it doesn't cost you anything

That's utterly fucking wrong. And also the third thing you've mentioned that's already been brought up in this thread, dingus. Labels offload expenses like record production onto the band, sometimes 50-100%. If they don't directly do it, it's added to the running balance of money that the band owes the record label, and under most modern deals the band pays the label at least 15% of everything that generates revenue.

Could you be any more up your ass? Your not paying to have records made so why are you screeching about it? You don't pay a label to make records. They take the expense themselves and make it up by selling records.

I'm gonna guess you're not having a record made and are making all of this up just support your tantrum

...are you on a record label? Because I am, and I'm telling you that's how it works. The 360 deal has been a thing for 20 years. The label signs an artist, fronts them say, $50,000 - $100,000 to record, produce, distribute and tour a record, then recoups those expenses through a fee on everything the artist does that generates revenue. The fee usually 15% or more. So yes, the artists are absolutely paying for the production of vinyl.

you're a very reddit fuck you

>le reddit omg so bad

that's not how it works if you're not signed. you are aware that a label will ask to put your shit out without signing you to a contract, right?

Are you talking about a verbal contract? I am well aware of that. Are you talking about a distribution label? I'm also aware of that.

i'm talking about a label that asks to put your music out but doesn't sign you to anything. they just ask if you wanna have your stuff put out but you're not signed to them. it'd help this discussion if you weren't a pompous ass.

The only people who use vinyl are hipsters, including people who think they sound better. A metal needle scraping across a big plastic disc (something they came up with well over a century ago) is not going to sound better than CD on the first spin, and it's only going to get much worse after that. "I like to be involved with the music" is no reason to subject yourself and the people around you to low quality audio.

Now's the part where you call me a big mean asshole because you "like" vinyl. I'm just trying to help.

You're talking about a label contacting an artist, not offering them any money, but asking to put out said artist's music under their label? Sounds like a bad deal.

It would help this discussion if you knew what the fuck you were talking about

People get vinyls because they're neat. It's like a functional novelty item for music fans. Sure, some fags will go on about it being better, but most of us just think it's neat. So yeah, calm the fuck down and listen to music your way instead of bitching about how others choose to do it. You're playing yourself

how is that a bad deal? you're having your record made for no cost.Again, pompous ass.

A record label is reaching out to you and offering to produce physical copies of your music for no fee or charge or money whatsoever? What label? Are they distributing it? Are they selling it through their own store? What you're talking about is incredibly uncommon.

>pompous ass

I'm not the guy you're butthurt about but damn you don't seem to know much about record deals/the music industry

yeah they're selling it through their own store/online store

...and taking a percentage?

...and paying you the other percentage?

yes

Okay so YES you fucking mouth breathing faggot, they are recouping their manufacturing expenses by TAKING MONEY that would otherwise GO TO YOU. What the fucking shit do you not understand about this?

obviously they're gonna take a percentage. you were talking about outright having to pay the label money. What's your band's name?

>I shame cigarette smokers

So you're an autistic friendless NO FUN ALLOWED neckbeard then. Good to know. You're not worth engaging

I said

>label fronts money to band
>band records record, has copies made
>band sells records
>label takes fee off of sales to recoup money fronted in the beginning

You're a fucking idiot

>2011+6
>he doesn't collect cassettes

Fuck cigarette smokers and their utterly self-absorbed ignorance

What's your band's name?

Nah. Get mad.

You have got to be trolling dude. Have you ever talked to a musician who distributes their own music? Molly Rankin from Alvvays has told me personally that vinyl copies of their album sell extremely well at shows. (This was back when they still ran their own merch stand)

Furthermore, as a musician I can confirm that musicians would like to sell vinyl.

And finally, i've bought vinyl/cassettes from dozens of bands who have no label and produce their own shit. Who forced these bands into using outdated mediums?

It's for music fans, not music snobs. Nothing wrong with being a music snob, but don't force it. People don't think like you for a reason, and it's not because you're smarter than them.

Tl;dr what the hell are you talking about

I'm not mad. Just wanna hear your music user. Or maybe you realize if I sent screenshots of this conversation to the label doing your record you'd be out on your ass. Go fuck yourself.

Thanks for not reading the entire thread, friendo. I never said vinyl doesn't sell well. That's why bands are "forced" to buy it just like your local gas station is "forced" to sell name brand snacks instead of knockoffs - the public demands certain things because the public is largely ignorant.

Of course you want to sell vinyl, you buy it. You clearly don't care that it's a stupid format.

Eat shit, you vindictive cunt.

>2010+7
>He doesn't collect 8-track tapes

You're the one that acted like a jackass. You're more ignorant than all of the people you've been complaining about. You don't know anything. Dumb as a brick. Enjoy being alone and miserable faggot.

>not operating out of self interest, being a useful idiot basically

Did i waste my time buying records?

wah wah wah you're ignorant because you told me how record deals work

lol

>he didn't even read his own source

that's not why you're ignorant jackass. you're ignorant because you've convinced yourself you're above the general public.

I don't consider myself above anyone. I just consider people like you that don't know jack shit about something, but talk about it like you do, to be fucking retarded. I'm not better than you, I'm just smarter than you until you do your own research and come to the same conclusions.

>he didn't refute anything I said

When really you're just a pathetic prick REEEEEing in your basement

That's a flat out lie. You've spent this entire thread posturing about how you're smarter than the general public. Get your head outta your ass you pathetic fuck.

When you're really in a band that's signed to a label and works in real studios and does real touring and are saddened by the amount of shamelessly stupid people claiming to understand music/the music industry

>i'm smarter than you until you come to same conclusions i have
spoken like a true idiot

Post some of your music so I can be saddened by how shamelessly stupid it is

Someone that understands these things about the music industry is simply "smarter" than a member of the general public that has spent most likely zero time considering any of it. If you're on this board to learn more about music then you should just lurk instead of revealing how much you don't know.

>there's no such thing as objective knowledge

Eat shit you post modern fuck

Vinyl being dumb isn't objective knowledge. It's an opinion you have which I agree with but it's not a fact.

Vinyl being an inferior format to put audio on is indeed an objective fact. At the very least, a vinyl record will be dust after a long enough time. Digital files will be here as long as there is electricity.