Here's a question for you Sup Forums: how ANGLO'D is your language?
While it's normal for languages to have some measure of Anglo influence, I've noticed some take it to the extreme, using English or """English""" words for stuff their languages already have a concept for, even basic stuff.
It occurred to me when I overheard some Italians talking about "la mia privacy" -- waitaminute, I thought, doesn't Italian have a word for privacy? But then again, that's nothing compared to Japanese, where even basic concepts like kisu or toraberu or supu are Engrish'd instead of using proper Japanese words.
Why exactly does this happen? Spanish or French have got English loanwords, but they're usually for imports such as sports, technology, economics, entertainment (football, holding, thriller, reality show...).
Latin American Spanish, on the other hand, and Canadian French, seem a lot more ANGLO'D than their metropolitan counterparts, even for a lot of stuff that would usually not require a loanword.
Is Angloification determined by a country or culture's self-worth? Cultural projection? Former colonial empire? Having a language regulatory body? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
>Canadian French Are you memeing, they invent new words for shit so people don't use English ones, it's arguably the purest form of French
Dominic Sanchez
>grew up speaking English >literally would never have to learn another language if I didn't want to
:)
Robert Rivera
>Are you memeing, they invent new words for shit so people don't use English ones, it's arguably the purest form of French u fucking wot Only the official and legal texts use french words instead of english borrowed ones, and it's a mess. When they speak casually québécois use a lot of english words and it make them difficult to understand.
Ethan Kelly
Clearly you've never heard a French Canadian saying "Je sors avec ma gang, ça va être le fun!" It's so anglo'd it's surreal, Hans.
^this
Chase Wilson
>tfw got used to use "randomnyj" instead of "sluchainyj" even though these words mean basically the same
Easton Wright
Brazilian Portuguese is beyond retarded with this. They take English words for Portuguese words. They take English words and butcher them to have "Portuguese" spelling. It just hurts. A few months back when Dilma's problem with impeachment was big, we couldn't stop earing brazilians talking about Dilma's impich'mã. Their word of "team" is literally "time" pronounced as "tchimi"
We mostly use English in technology and there's a vertent of business lingo that uses a lot of English words but the other just uses Portuguese.
Samuel Russell
We use lots of English. There's a bit of a difference between casual speech and more formal settings, where the formal uses less English than casual.
I want to split English into four different types.
1. words that are well integrated into Norwegian. Used in all settings, part of day to day speech. Two subtypes: words that you don't think about (like "jobb (job)), and words that sound a bit strange (typically words with short æ sounds, which doesn't exist natively).
2. Words that are influenced by the speaker being bad at Norwegian, and using English far more. Often French loan words that are used in an English sense rather than the Norwegian one, or Norwegian words used in an English sense just because they sound similar. An example of the latter: where English would use "fellow", many Norwegians who are bad at Norwegian use "felles", which sounds similar, even though the word "felles" has a completely different meaning (something you have in common or share is "felles"), and anyone semi-competent would tell is wrong. This group also includes use of words that are similar to English over other words. It may be technically accurate, but no one would use words in this way if they didn't use English way more.
3. English words used with English pronunciation because the speaker doesn't know the Norwegian word. Difference from type 2 is that it's actual English words mixed into Norwegian, not English words with Norwegian pronunciation and style. This includes common sayings and single or a few words.
4. Not really Norwegian at all. It's quite common that young people in Norway hold entire conversations in English.
Asher Johnson
Well, how FRENCH'd, or how LATIN'd is your language?
Sebastian Bell
Superficially it might seem like I am writing in Englisch at the moment. That's wrong, what you are currently reading ist actually German. It's become so gravely Anglo'd that it's barely distinguishable from actual German except für some few subtleties.
Mason Price
not much
Joshua Williams
They constantly say "fuck" though.
Isaac Young
Bloody Jerry, sullying the Queen's with your barbarity.
Jonathan Phillips
very
Jason Parker
English got FRENCH'D bad by the Normans. Spanish got FRENCH'D a little in the 19th century, but French loanwords/contaminations are subtle and many people aren't even aware of them (for instance, estratega is a calque of Fr. stragège; the original Spanish word is estratego, from Greek στρατηγός). Others include avalancha instead of alud, masacre instead of matanza, argot instead of jerga, etc.
As for Latin, unless you're talking about the evolution of Romance languages (which is a completely different process; if anything, Latin got BARBARIAN'D), we all got LATIN'D in the 18th century with scientific nomenclature.
Ethan Walker
A lot of new words and words related to technology are loaned from English. It's pretty much because France is emulating the USA with a 3-5 delay so when these concepts arrive, they're well established in America.
Sebastian Bennett
>young people in Norway hold entire conversations in English.
Oh men, Scandinavia Will be part of UK very soon If you dont stop this.
Xavier Sanchez
this is revenge
Ayden Ramirez
With all of the migrants entering Europe, have any weird new loan words emerged or do they just get ANGLO'D?
Gabriel Reed
It's true, went to Norway and didn't need to speak Norwegian once (Not that I can but didn't even need to try at it) Younger people loved speaking it to me. Older people seemed to do so begrudgingly
Noah Taylor
Yeah I'll prefer being seen as a pompous arrogant instead of a juvenile cunt seen.
Daniel Taylor
Not really much outside of gamer talk.
Anthony James
This is fucking sad. Are many Norwegians actually incompetent in their own mother language?
Adrian Lewis
They know the grammar and have a big vocabulary compared to non native speakers, but they also have large gaps in their vocabulary, and many also build their sentences based on English, so many words and sayings turn out wrong.
Lucas Collins
It's actually pretty depressing. It makes me feel good about our ineptitude to speak english and our desire to translate and dub everything.
Michael King
anglo-canucks only care if you cuss them out in their native tongue
Leo Davis
It's pretty common to use English words mid-conversation.
I really have no pity for the reverse because it's simple revenge. Or should I say "revanche"
Leo Morris
I'm from Québec, french is my native language but everything regarding mechanic or anything related to manual labour is pronounced in english, like car parts or stuff related to carpentry, for exemple, The sky is the limit.
Isaiah Scott
There were never proper studies on this topic but according to approximate calculations I found on the Internet, latinisms and grecisms make at least 60% of the total amount of borrowings in Russian and borrowings make ~15% of the Russian vocabulary, so as a result we have 9%. How bad is that?
Sebastian Nguyen
>it's arguably the purest form of french fuck off germanon,. most people here are inbred retard, dont glorify them
Parker Morales
They start using english words with french grammar
John Stewart
>it's arguably the purest form of French No that's the one from Tours
Nolan Reed
>the purest form of [language] is [some shithole far away and completely detached from the land and culture that gave birth to it]
This meme needs to die.
Elijah Morgan
...
Ayden Ross
It's not wrong, necessarily.
Robert Wood
This romantic conceit usually stems from the misguided assumption that time "stops" in other places, that since an offshoot branch retains some archaic elements it somehow ceased to evolve altogether. This is a falsehood as the evolution of language is a constant; language always evolves, it just evolves in different directions in different contexts.
When they show you some Sephardic Jew speaking Ladino, which vaguely ressembles medieval Spanish, it would be a mistake to assume that it has remained unchanged over 500 years of roaming after the expulsion. It is simply an offshoot that branched off from the main trunk around 1492, and grew in a different direction due to circumstances.
Justin Martin
It's not true that the evolution is a constant. Sometimes, a language may evolve fast, and other times it may evolve slow. If you split a language into two groups it is very possible that they have changed to different degrees. It's true that you can't just look at one trait, and if that part of the language is unchanged, then the language hasn't changed, but we can still find languages that have changed more or less, especially if we just look at some features. For example, Icelandic has probably changed less than Norwegian has from the original forms, even if it's quite questionable and quite possibly wrong if we look at the phonological changes. But grammatically, there is no argument, and vocabulary is also probably less changed. If we put the different parts against each other, I think we could say that Icelandic is a "purer" version of old norse than Norwegian. [note that I don't know Icelandic, so this is a bit guessy]
Jacob Gonzalez
Yes, but neither Icelandic nor Norwegian are old norse; correct me if I'm wrong, but old norse is to North Germanic languages as Latin is to Romance languages, and it would be absurd to claim that any Romance language is a more or less pure "version" of Latin, each having become languages in their own right. I'm discussing regional variants of living languages.
Noah Clark
I don't know about Icelandic, people like to say that modern Icelandic people can read the old texts, but their conservative written language may play a big part in that. But if it isn't, I guess you could technically say Icelandic is a dialect of old norse. At least if the pronunciation weren't so different.
It is the same thing with living languages though. You can have two dialects that have not changed to equal degree. I don't actually have any current examples, but let's pretend we lived 900 years ago or so. The dialect of North Germanic spoken in Sweden could be said to be purer than that spoken in Denmark, because the Danish version started changing earlier and more than the other dialects.
The word "pure" is a bit imprecise, but I think it means that it is about how much the languages have changed
Cooper Torres
*walks towards you*
You say something hans?
Andrew Jones
It seems simple if it is framed as a question of mere degree, but it is actually a question of degree and nature. Once you enter a qualitative element to the quantitative (not just a question of "more" or "less"), comparison becomes all but impossible and the purity argument spirals into absurdity.
Mason Stewart
Same.
Alexander Thomas
Yes but they are epic fails, nobody uses "courrierl" instead of "email", same for "mèl" which was proposed by the paris french academy, people don't care
Logan Walker
>Here's a question for you Sup Forums: how ANGLO'D is your language? > >While it's normal for languages to have some measure of Anglo influence, I've noticed some take it to the extreme, using English or """English""" words for stuff their languages already have a concept for, even basic stuff. > >where even basic concepts like kisu or toraberu or supu are Engrish'd instead of using proper Japanese words. Because you don't understand the native words, but you can hear the English. Chu is just as common for kiss, and 接吻 is preferred in more literary writing. 旅行・移動 is by far more common than travel, and as for soup. That's a western dish to begin with. What do you call sushi, karaoke, or katana? If you're thinking miso soup, we call that shiru not soup.
Kayden Smith
A lot of people who want to come of as smart try to pull off 2. Ultimate cringe 2bh.
Scrap that
4 is ultimate cringe. You're not memeing right?
Hunter Russell
For what?
Gavin Russell
People who use English words just to sound cool are laughed at. But i speak dialect so we laugh at the '''''Dutch'''''' and their political correctness anyway.
Gavin Phillips
Toiret, waifu, biru
Sebastian Hall
whenever someone here uses "about" as an aproximation i just wanna punch the guy
David Torres
Something I've been wondering for a long time JP is why does your country use katakana English words for titles of movies and video games, even if they are Japanese-produced titles? Like Fire Emblem for instance, you call it Faia Emuburemu, why. I assume you have your own words for "fire" and "emblem"? Or Sword Art Online - Sodo Ato Onrain. You have your own words for those things why is the title in distorted English?
I am not native to TW but I am also not American and I've really never understood this from any perspective. I don't know any other country that does that.
Samuel Johnson
>Swedish Not that much. In computer contexts, there are English and Swedish words for everything. Both are used. Fuck is used as an interjection/curse word, sometimes with Swedish conjugation. Mostly by immigrants or youth.
Fuck: >fuck vad den är dyr >fuck, look how expensive that is
Fuckar: >du fuckar mig >you're screwing me over
>du fuckar med mig >you're messing with me
Fucking: >fucking helvete vad den är dyr >fucking hell look how expensive it is
Fucka: >du fuckade den >you fucked it [thing] up
Logan Mitchell
>be me >learn spanish >hear "hacer footing" for the first time >almost die of laughter
Learning how to say "to jog" in spanish was the best day of my life
Luis Rodriguez
The Real Academia is constantly pulling these shenanigans here. Some semantic adaptations are quite good and have become the norm (rascacielos for skyscraper, perrito caliente for hot dog, fin de semana for weekend...) some have not been successful (amigovio for fuckbuddy, wtf? There's already a popular adaptation which is follamigo, but since it sounds vulgar the academics decided to ignore it...) but lately the RAE has gone full retard and decided to lexicalize loanwords in the dumbest way possible, similar to mèl ("cederrón" for CD-ROM, "güisqui" for whisky, "zum" for zoom...). Nobody uses those and everyone finds them laughable, and yet they have been included in the latest editions of the DRAE. What are these people thinking?
Justin Bennett
This is even more comical due to the fact that most people here are under the impression that you can just add -ing to something and it becomes an English word. When it was pointed out that "footing" is not an actual thing in English (what we might call a false anglicism) people started using running (pronounced ránin) to refer to jogging, which is only slightly less retarded.
Brayden James
Hahahahaha, I remember my professor telling me about a TV show "Sponje" or something like that (I remember it's a spanish skit show). And apparently many Spaniards thought it was an english word because it didn't have an e before the sp.
New words related to technology and media can be English.
Ayden Thomas
Mites "aboutiarallaa"?
James Robinson
Any examples of native words being replaced? I was recently watching Croatian television and heard some use the word "prezent" for the English word "present" In Croatian, the word for this is "dar". It was quite strange to hear it However, I've only heard this once, I hope it doesn't catch on
Ryder Ward
Here's an example of language evolving in different directions. In Spanish, up until the 19th century, there was a reverential form of addressing people known as "voseo". Voseo has "survived" in rioplatense Spanish, but it would be a mistake to assume it is the same thing since it has evolved in a completely different direction:
- The tone/meaning has become different: historical voseo is formal and reverential, rioplatense voseo is informal and colloquial - The conjugations have changed: vos cantáis (historical), vos cantás/tú cantái (rioplatense/chilean) - The object pronoun "os" and the possessive "vuestro" have been replaced by "te" and "tu" (voseo has partially blended with tuteo): "Os entregué vuestras pertenencias" would become "Te entregué tus pertenencias"
In other words, it would be a mistake to believe that the existence of this form reflects any kind of "purity" since after it branched off it continued to evolve and has become something that sounds jarring to an 18th-century speaker or even someone familiar with reverential voseo from reading old texts.
Angel Ortiz
entä Öbaut?
Parker Gomez
english is very anglo'd
Levi Carter
Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but I thought I'd add: >historical voseo is formal and reverential, rioplatense voseo is informal and colloquial
For some reason, in Bogotá, the pronoun "Usted" is colloquial and informal, whereas in all other Spanish speaking countries, it's reserved exclusively for formal speech.
Brandon Sullivan
>For some reason, in Bogotá, the pronoun "Usted" is colloquial and informal, whereas in all other Spanish speaking countries, it's reserved exclusively for formal speech.
Probably the logical extension of the fact that most Latin American countries have abolished the informal 2nd person plural, which is "ustedes" in most of LatAm regardless of whether or not you're calling someone tú or usted. Taken to the extreme I guess this would imply abolishing tuteo altogether and using usted exclusively regardless of formal/informal contexts (similarly to how "thou" ceased to exist in English).
This might not necessarily take place but then again I feel that the blending of ustedes/vosotros can create tension in some sentence constructions in which tú appears alongside an ustedes conjugation, such as "lo que tú y tus amigos no saben" which simply sounds jarring, at least to my ears.
Joseph James
>lo que tú y tus amigos no saben Yeah, even I can easily spot the error there and "hear" how it sounds wrong when spoken aloud. >I guess this would imply abolishing tuteo It'll be interesting to see if this ever takes place, but from what I've heard, a lot of people associate it very much with being from Bogotá. If it has that strong identity to it, I doubt it'll even spread to other cities, let alone to other nations. Then again, I don't know the kind of cultural influence Bogotá emits in LatAm
Wew it's quite old, I completely forgot about it until you mentioned it
Dylan Murphy
'Running' is actually used in American English as a synonym for jogging. You can usually tell what someone is referring to based on context.
Because loanwords sound more exotic, which helps evoke the feeling of a fantasy setting. Sword Art Online and Fire Emblem are both very European-style fantasy worlds, so it makes some sense.
Why is the main language of magic in Anglo fantasy Latin even though no one speaks it and there's plenty of analogues for Latinisms in our own language? Tone.
Hudson Martin
It's entirely possible to speak pure German with no English words. But if you try too hard, you end up sounding weird. For example, if you say "Mobiltelefon" (mobile telephone) instead of "Handy" (which is supposed to mean mobile phone, because it fits in your hand, so it's "handy"), it sounds a bit odd, but it's acceptable. A lot of times, it's more convenient to use English words, especially when you talk about cultural phenomena from the Anglo world (i just say "honey chicken" instead of "Honig Hühnchen"), or technology-related words ("computer" instead of "Rechner")
Nathaniel Gomez
Yes, I meant it's retarded because we already have plenty of words for running, with the necessary nuances to express a slow jog, but instead people go around saying "rúnin".
Matthew Nguyen
English "sorry" is more popular than native "przepraszam" because it's shorter and impersonal
if you want to say sorry but youre not really sorry them you say sorry because whatever
Joshua Campbell
Modern and young danes use english for words that are intangible in danish.
> Det må være weekend > Nei, fucking satan man > Du må være completely out of your mind > Fy for satan your sick man
Daniel Barnes
> 4. Not really Norwegian at all. It's quite common that young people in Norway hold entire conversations in English.
What? Where is this common? I have lived in Oslo all my life, its not common to speak to another in another language then english unless that person does not speak norwegian.
Adam Russell
Thanks God for that, I'm currently learning Norwegian and I'd be really disappointed if you guys suddenly stopped talking your own damn language
Bentley Parker
"hiking" is actually used in American English as a synonm for "going for a walk". I recently found that out. Was very surprised!
Joseph Williams
Russian isn't formally Anglo'd at all, but our informal speech has a lot of strange adaptations of English words. we use words like random, forever, anyway, whatever, sometimes we meet each other and say hi instead of privet
Nolan Sanders
Only instance I can think of is "take a hike!"
Although here in Australia, we use "hike" as a way to talk about a journey which either takes a long time or is not easy
For example "It's a bloody 2 hour hike my uni by public transport!" Clearly here I'm not actually walking to uni, because I've even stated the mode of transport but it informs the listener that I believe the 2 hour travel is very long
I don't think it's meant simply as "to walk" here. The woman at the start makes me think that they're actually practicing for a hike in the future.
Xavier Green
Here it's not uncommon to hear young people saying English words out of the blue like omg, fuck, shit, please, alright, cool, wtf, what, nice and shut up from time to time during conversation. It happens especially in the middle and upper classes tho.
Lincoln Reyes
Actually a lot of languages have a lot of loanwords, it just happens that they have been so engrained into the languages that they are not perceived as such
Robert Sanchez
>Is Angloification determined by a country or culture's self-worth? Cultural projection? Former colonial empire? Having a language regulatory body? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Nathan Martin
We got FRANK'D
Ryan Howard
That's interesting. Mandarin also has a built-in resistance to loanwords because hanzi and the language's phonetic structure (only 400 possible syllable sounds vs. 10.000 in English) lend themselves very poorly to transcribing foreign words and sounds, which makes translating words easier and more convenient.
Zachary Cox
There are also words with unknown origin that may be loaned.
Oliver Miller
Not at all.
My mom got ANGLO'd though
Ian Perry
>Is Angloification determined by a country or culture's self-worth? First thing that comes to mind is the word "malinchista". >Having a language regulatory body? I think this plays a pretty big role this desu I wish English never got rekt with all the Latin and French words. I kinda wish we were sorta intelligible with other germanic languages
Christian Barnes
>Vietnamese >28.1% To be fair, the vast majority of those borrowings are from Chinese, and they were all taken a very long time ago, to the point now where the words/sounds have changed so most of the borrowings aren't even that obvious.
Isaiah Bennett
>I think this plays a pretty big role
At first glance it may seem so, but then again the poster boys for language regulatory bodies, the Bourbon-founded Académie française and Real Academia, are ossified, useless institutions. The decentralized Anglo system has yielded much better results.
Michael Sanchez
>decentralized Anglo system has yielded much better results. Examples of this?
>are ossified, useless institutions Perhaps. They don't always get their way, but they do hold some sway If I remember correctly a law was passed in France some time ago that something like >40% of the music played on the radio during peak hours must be french
Leo Sanders
mites ööpautti?
Jonathan Myers
Too much, even when it's not necessary at all. I try to avoid English words (mostly about technology and stuff) and try to make my friends use German ones instead as well. Most words can be easily translated or described in German actually.
Dylan James
Yes, but using it like that is going to get you labeled as dad-tier and shunned for being lame af
Wyatt Hernandez
>how ANGLO'D is your language?
A lot
Isaac Long
>If I remember correctly a law was passed in France some time ago that something like >40% of the music played on the radio during peak hours must be french
Not that much different to what the BBC has to adhere to. They're obliged to be as British as possible because people pay a television licence fee. It's why apart from films and sports, you very rarely see American or foreign made content on BBC channels.
Benjamin Smith
Didn't even know your """"""""""country""""""""""" had a language :^)
Not bad I suppose the ABC (our version of your BBC) is kinda similar. They tend to play more Australian content But iirc that french law applied to all radio stations. Even the popular ones.
Kayden Collins
The French pay a television licence too and I think like us it covers certain radio stations too so because of that they'll have to be as French as possible. Though the law might apply to other independent stations so.