The Shining

A friend of mine says The Shining is the worst film he's ever seen and says it's fine to hold that view because it's an opinion. How do I prove him objectively wrong and what makes The Shining such a classic?

to be honest it is really boring

It's hard to win an argument with an intelligent person, it's impossible to win against an idiot.

Btw, Eyes Wide Shut is my favorite Kubrick film so far. Still need to see 2001 though.

>It's hard to win an argument with an intelligent person, it's impossible to win against an idiot.
Seconded

I never really got the acclaim either. It's distinctive for sure and I see how it really works for some, but to me it's all so flat and lifeless. It just plods from one scene to the next

ask him about films he like, then make a list and if there is any spielberg's film just means that ur mate is not allowed to have an opinion about films

But Kubrick loved Spielberg

not liking the Shining is a pretty good indicator that you have bad taste. I'm not saying that anyone who likes the Shining has great taste, but generally if you don't like it it's a pretty good sign you're a pleb.

>hating Spielberg

The question though is 'why' and how do you communicate that?

All you have basically said is 'I like it', OPs mate has 'I don't like it'. Your argument is no different to his.

(I don't think OP actually has a friend who said this and the OP is just disguising his actual question behind a story in order to better engage people)

you communicate it by pointing to various camera techniques, the use of color, and other bullshit that has nothing to do with the cinematic experience

FIRST POST BEST POST

The Shining is a comedy. It's impossible to take seriously and anyone who thinks it's "horror" is an idiot.

What were the arguments why The Shining is a bad movie?

It's about isolation and masculine concerns, no conformist will ever get it.

it's a movie that captures isolation, loneliness, and the unknown and intertwines the physical with the super natural. leaving much to the interpretation of the viewer. it's incredibly well acted, with nicholsons best roles he's ever played. the themes at hand here some some untouched by any horror since out of both reverence and the knowledge that the shining cannot be out done. point to me one horror that does anything as well as the shining does, and I will give you 5 reasons the shining does it better.

Op here, thanks for the replies
His favourite films are:
Fury
Goodfellas
Saving Private Ryan
Rocky
Scarface

There are a few I'm missing, I just asked him this question and I feel as if he's listing films like this in a poor attempt to appear knowledgeable on films. He also
said "best plotted films are retro-gangsta ones" so that to if it means something to anyone

>it's incredibly well acted
If Nicholson's godawful overacting is your definition of "well acted" maybe.

Anything this piece of garbage movie does, the book does better and I usually hate King.

>I don't know anything about movies so exaggerated roles are seen as overracting to me

gotcha bud

>captures loneliness
Strongly disagree, loneliness is too empathetic a word for this movie. It's about a man about to snap being left alone with nothing but his thoughts and finally breaking

>point to me one horror that does anything as well as the shining does
That would be a very long list.

this shot should be argument enough

...which is what loneliness is. or at least the consequences of it.

>I'm an idiot who can watch Jack Nicholson being a goofy faggot and think it's a good acting
Okay, faggot.

people who don't like the shining are the same people who say the witch isn't a horror movie

complete plebs

Op here again, his points were dreadful:
-It's boring
-The actors are "shocking"
-The plot was "terrible"
-See pic related (what he text me)

I mean, they are all pretty valid points.
Also your stubborness make you seem EXTREMELY autistic?
What's your counterpoint? Why is the film good in your opinion? I have yet to hear that.

Camera techniques and use of colour have nothing to do with the cinematic experience?

That's interesting, but irrelevant.

The camera techniques and use of colour were horrible for me in the Shining were horrible for me, worst movie ever.

What now?

he's right

objectively awful performances by at least 2 out of 3 of the main roles (no one can possibly argue for merits of duvall or the kid expect for comedic purposes) overacting and a weirdly paced plot, and a lack of any sort of element of horror.

kubrick would have been way better off if he stuck truer to the book

This fella needs to elaborate on those points.

Calling something terrible or boring without explaining why is just wasting everyone's time. It's kinda like what the people who think calling something shit is valid criticism do.

Our culture is dead, so our art is dead. They are beyond your help, my friend.

No, I feel "loneliness" is more sad, empty. Not going crazy. Taxi Driver is something I would say is about loneliness, and then it's impact on his mental state. In The Shining Jack seems like a crazy guy from scene 1, and only gets worse when left alone with himself

tell him he bought the camaraderie meme that they sell all foot soldiers... Exercising power is cheap seat filler, we think if look away we are missing out on how to gain power or avoid destruction but gangsta films don't aim to teach, they rely on emotional contrast characters to make the the clearly better ones look goodand so of course people want to be associated with those movies where it is so cut and dry.

Why do people praise Shining's atmosphere?
Suspiria or even Rosemary's Baby were much more atmospheric that.

>
>In The Shining Jack seems like a crazy guy from scene 1
That's because Kubrick somehow managed to make the only tolerable story by Stephen "The Hack" King much worse than the usual tripe King writes. There's a slow and believable descent in the book, but that's too complex for Kubrick to grasp, so he made Jack obviously crazy from the beginning.

>to be honest it is really boring
That's because you're an idiot.

Gotta love the most powerful jew in L.A.

>when you nut but she keeps sucking

It's a classic because some of the imagery that the movie employed was so unique and iconic that they became staples of the genre and ingrained in popular culture in general.

Yeah, it's true, it needed more explosions.

>I never really got the acclaim either. It's distinctive for sure and I see how it really works for some, but to me it's all so flat and lifeless. It just plods from one scene to the next

That's fine, alot of Kubrick's films are like this. DESU I watched it once in the eighties and never went back - was a fan of the novel.

However...

Lee Unkrich has a website called The Overlook. Spend some time there, and watch it again.

>point to me one horror that does anything as well as the shining does,

The Fly (1986)

Subtext.

(Good luck...)

>There's a slow and believable descent in the book, but that's too complex for Kubrick to grasp, so he made Jack obviously crazy from the beginning.

There's a slow and believable descent in the book, but that's too complex for Kubrick to grasp, so he made Jack obviously crazy from the beginning.

I used to trot out this meme too.

Torrance is the bomb under the table in the movie. It's very different.

I agree with op s friend, shining a shit. A SHIT.

>Lee Unkrich has a website called The Overlook. Spend some time there, and watch it again.
Oh no, I've familiar with all that "subtext" nonsense and have less than 0 interest in it. It's reaching at best, and metatextual stuff like that has no impact on the way the film works to me.

It's about failing to provide and protect your family. How is that not obvious? The worst thing an ideal family man can be is to be the inverted version of a family man. Jack is not protecting his family: he's hurting it physically/mentally. He's not doing a good job providing for his family since he got fired from his previous job. Also his attempt to ensure the future of his family by going to the Overlook is actually doing the opposite.

It's about a man's failure to be a husband and a father.

I get that, I'm just saying it's closer to what I said than loneliness. Jack isn't going crazy or failing as a man because he's lonely

Do you wanna say that to my fucking face

Fucking no. The imagery is so well known because it was parodied endlessly for decades because its outrageously stupid

Surely you don't want to die?

Funny.

2001 is his best that I've seen.

I only still need to watch Eyes Wide Shut

That's because he never lived to see how Spielburg butchered "AI" after handing the film off to him.

Not all Spielberg is garbage, he's just responsible for the fact that Hollywood is garbage.

>Oh no, I've familiar with all that "subtext" nonsense and have less than 0 interest in it. It's reaching at best, and metatextual stuff like that has no impact on the way the film works to me.

Nigga there's fuck all about sub-text or meaning on Overlook. Literally fuck all, so take your poncey picture of Bresson and fuck off while you're about it.

You should consider ending the friendship, or at the very least not hang with him that much,because it's clear he is a pleb.

>only MY opinions are correct
kys

The first 45 mintues are comfy tier feels especially Hannigan showing Wendy and Doc the food supplies. It does become boring and Jack goes nuts way to quick.

In the book its a slow build up were he is trying to be good but shit just keeps going wrong until he just flips.

Tell him that what is good/bad is objective, what you like is opinion.

This misconception of "What's good is subjective!" is the biggest downfall of art