Bastard Bowl

Am I the only one who thinks the tactics used by Jon Snow and Ramsey were atrociously bad with numerous fundamental mistakes (exposing flanks ,terrible mixed unit tactics)

should have fielded nothing but bows
>can penetrate any armor or shield
>pinpoint accuracy
>effective at any range

probably the only more powerful weapon than the bow is whatever baelish used to teleport all his dudes there

Yes, because it was composed from a script which was probably hastily thrown together last year and didn't have a decently well-researched novel to fall back on for most of their information.

The whole episode was dogshit

You shouldn't think about this stuff there are dragons and the trees have faces why would anything make sense

Dindu Nuffins in season 7

>whatever baelish used to teleport all his dudes there
Whatever he used isn't as powerful as whatever Reek and Lady Reek used to get to Meereen at Warp Speed

It's called a cargo jet you pleb

When you have one you can also drop shit like bombs onto Ye olde knights

Yes.
>cavalry just charges straight into infantry instead of circling around them, chasing down stragglers, etc..
>Bolton army completely surrounds Jon's army even though one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
>Jon just completely eschews digging trenches and staying on the defensive and solo charges into Ramsay's numerically superior vanguard

What the fuck were they thinking.

The whole series*

>Bolton army completely surrounds Jon's army even though one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy

this one you could explain as ramsay not giving a fuck

don't get me wrong though it was a stupid fucking scene

Well one is half retarded and the other is a psychopath. It's amazing what they both managed to pull off

>one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy

why is this

>One is borderline insane, is too cocky and generally thinks he's untouchable
>One is a kid who's never really lead an army before except against a band of wildfolk.

Gee i wonder why they aren't seasoned war tacticians.

Jon is transitioning into a hot head.

>>Jon just completely eschews digging trenches and staying on the defensive and solo charges into Ramsay's numerically superior vanguard

You're a fool. They mentioned that they dug trenches to their flanks, but Jon ran out into the battle as a result of Ramsay's ploy with Rickon. At that point, they had to send their army after him to protect their commander.

Also what's with this 'golden rule'?

Presumably because fight to the death results in huge casualty on both side. It's often better to kill just enough of the enemy and let them flee

you might be the only one who applied autistic armchair battle tactics to a fantasy tv show.

wow u 2 r so edgy!

Cornered enemies fight harder, it seems obvious but that's the rule

in a wider context it's more about not pressing your advantage more than you need to in any situation, not necessarily to be literally surrounding them. men that think their only alternative is death will fight harder and cost you resources

Well both commanders were 20 year old hotheads. Ramsay was overconfident and likes violence and Jon Snow was blind with rage, and also a zombie.

It's much more profitable to set up a pincer attack, leaving a chance to retreat backwards, and then squeeze the enemy into routing. While an army is in rout, you can chase them down with cavalry and wipe them out.

If you completely surround an enemy, they'll have no choice but to fight to the death, which will mean you'll lose more men in the process of finishing them.

>give wun wun any kind of weapon at all
>immediately win because giants are fucking invincible

nah just have him punch things. that was really stupid.

Yep. The directing was really good but the writing was complete shit. It's sad the writers don't actually care at all about medieval history when it was George's primary influence.

Because then your enemy can quip at you something stupid like
>Surrender we have you surrounded
>Good, I have you right where I want you
At which point you know they have reinforcements ready to rape your butthole the second you turn your back to them

silly. the romans got rekt at cannae when they were encircled.

it's also the cumulative effect of every writing decision since episode 9 last year causing everyone's actions to make no sense.

This. Neither of them are great commanders. If Ramsey was actually competent he would've stayed at Winterfell and let them attempt a siege while he sent some ravens out for reinforcements from the south.

>Months of prep time and Wun Wun hasnt made a weapon for himself

Is he the dumbest GoT character?

Who gives a fuck. Seriously.

Toss, what a mistake! He should have maxed avalanche. Idiot went first item blink and had nothing in the late game.

If you encircle an enemy you're still going to win, it's just going to cost you more men in doing so. The best option as said here: is a pincer attack.

That wasn't full fucking encircling. It was the invention of a beautiful pincer tactic.

two is a strong number.

Giant used tree truck to fucking rekt undead at Hardhome

HEY GUYS LETS NOT GIVE HIM A WEAPON!!!

Wtf we're they thinking?

instead of being cool he is being bold?
snow to stark

Jon's plan fell apart when he tried to save his brother, shit went to hell after that and was only saved when Little Finger saved there dumb asses

Though i do love that shot with Tormond, Jon, and Wun Wun If anyone has that please post it..

cyka blyat I fuck you gamburger

Overall, I thought the battle scene was pretty good. Surprisingly well-shot and high-budget. One thing that did bug me was how Jon's army just sorta stood around looking dumb-founded as Ramsay's guys got into position for the shield wall.

What exactly would you mean by this?

>giants are fucking invincible
not when matched against the mighty bow they aren't

that wasn't really the same thing, but the point is more about what it costs you

:v

>Wun Wun in full plate with a 6 inch thick tower shield

Sansa's behavior actually makes sense when you realize she didn't expect Jon to go full Targaryan on the whole army. like, she figured she had at least 30 minutes more than that.

I don't care, I fucking told you faggots that Ramsey was going get devoured by his own hounds and I got laughed at. Suck a fat cock!

Seriously? They left Westeros three episodes ago.

Like shit, why didn't that dude just grab a tree or something, he would have demolished their heavy shield column.

Anyone got Jon going UFC on Ramsay?

What i hated was that after Smalljon charged there were clearly still thousands of soldiers behind Ramsay but after Baelish showed up they apparently all dissapeared or we were supposed to believe they were part of that charge.
Ramsay was supposed to outnumber Jon two to one and they did a piss poor job of portraying that.

>one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
Why?

Wun Wun has the strenght of 12 good men, he's not invincible.

He couldve carved a tree into a club and also built a shield with bound together stumps with all the time he had.

We missed out on some badass giant thwomping thanks to the director/writer/whoever

It's easier to rout your enemy and kill them while they're fleeing. This is why most medieval battles are so lopsided in terms of casualties. If you surround them completely they'll all fight to the death and you'll incur more losses.

It annoys me how Jon Snow seemingly lost all the battle sense he gained over the numerous battles he won using his brain up at the wall.

He didn't even lose his shit like that when his ginger bae was killed, yet literally fucking charged into 6000 good men on foot over some shitty little brother he barely even had a connection with.

Felt like a poor writing excuse to give Sansa the spotlight.

Because it's easier to let them rout than fight them to their deaths.

When routed they can be simply chased by cavalry without much resistance.

I like how Dany has three invincible dragons costing a billion dollars in CGI but D&D for some reason prioritize taking away Jon's OP shit.

>supposedly set in fantasy Dark Ages
>everyone can afford mail, helmets and swords
>all soldiers are professional and not levies

I think Jon's at his mental breaking point.

nt even medieval

that shit is literally sun tzu 101

The worst part of this episode was Wun Wun not having some type of weapon or even armor i mean for fucks sakes hes a giant a wrecking machine in your hands. I could forgive everything else but wtf.

She was still a cunt for keeping it all a secret.

lel modern American soldiers have to buy their own body armor but /got/ soldiers are apparently all from the New Model Army or something.

GoT is set during the decline of a golden age (the targ rule), so a few professional armies still being around is fairly normal.

I think it was a few things, He cared about his brother, he was there for him until he went to the wall, he thought he was dead at one point, when he was just there to save him and Ramsey put the arrow though him, he knew he was being played, Ramsey is an expert hunter, He could have easily hit that shot.

But I for one loved how he threw down his sword and grabbed a shield and just went to town on Bolton, though it does feel weird there is just a random Stark shield lying around.

>sansa withholds information about backup from the vale and possibly riverrun
>tells juan snow that ramsay is going to bait him and not to fall for it
>jon takes the fuckin bait

yeah expect that to never be addressed because D&D made the decision about having her marry Ramsay before the previous season without fully planning out how to cope with the long term effects.

>There will never be a Band of Brothers type show where english peasants with thier family's rusty pothelms and some shitty spears have to invade Wales

Did you not pay attention?!??!

Team snow made a tactical plan... typical tactical plan. Which ginger shot to shit. Team snow ignored advice and continued.

Team Ramsey did what they do best. Play mind games. Pulled a seen right out of Apacaliptico ( bad spelling)

Team snow lost their shit and threw tactic out the window..luckily snow is currently untouchable.

Team snow refused to unleash the arrows because the mass casualties they would have recieved.

Team Ramsey made it clear he didnt give a fuck about his men dying. He unleashed arrows creating a mound of death between him and team snow.

Team snow lost thier shit and sent archers in

Team Ramsey sent in an entire force creating a u shape of shields and trapping team snow between a rock and a mountain of death.

Remember snow was out numbered by a shit load. Ramsey had nothing but time and soldiers.

Little finger with the bird crew cav made it

FYI I hoped for a better fight... but i loved how they showed how weak Ramsey truly was
NO HAND TO HAND COMBAT SKILLLS

Can only hurt ppl tied up or weak or at a distance. True cuck.

Kinda weird for this to still be the case this late in the story. By this point I would imagine most of the great/competant warrors dying.

Plus we all saw how well Stannis' army did, an actual professional army.

Wait how did Stannis' army route the wildlings then go on to lose to Bolton then the Wildlings crush Bolton?

Ramsay's death was complete bullshit

>tied to chair in kennel
>surrounded by starved dogs
>all doors to other dog kennels wide open
>starved dogs only show interest in meat when Sansa shows
>mfw

>golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
Why?

I think the tactics were pretty solid. Cut off the enemy advance and take their flank. The only fucked up thing was he cut off enemy advance by creating a wall of enemies and allies. I think that was pretty fucking Ramsey.

Yeah, well Sansa's a dumb cunt who cost countless men their lives. Had she told Jon that more men may be coming, things could have gone a lot more smoothly.

You want the enemy able to rout to minimize your losses in a victory.

They talked about digging trenches, but look at the overhead shot of their army. They are lined up in front of the tree line, but I didn't see any trenches dug.

Wasn't a Stark shield, it was a Mormont shield.

Half of sannis army deserted between the battles. Or maybe wildlings are grass, stannis is fire, and bolton is water.

It's a ritual of mine, after watching the newest GoT episode, to go to youtube and cringe at the cringey headlines of IGN's recap videos.

That ground was frozen to shit, there's no way they could have dug trenches anyway.

I think you need to shut the fuck up and stop pretending to know anything about combat tactics.

>Have a battle in front of Winterfell when you have 1/4th of the numbers and the enemy can easily retreat into their castle forcing you into a siege you can't possibly win

Jon's plan was always retarded

they had a giant

On a historical scale, it's not late at all. We're only 18 years out from the fall of the targs. Empires decline over centuries.

Stannis was defeated by the winter. Half his force had deserted, his logistics were shot to shit. This too is no way historically unprecedented.

Bolton was defeated by the master rusery of CIA. The wildlings were merely one of his many honeypots.

Makes even less sense then.

>Wun Wun just flailing about with his bare hands until he's shot to death
Nobody thought "Hey, we should give the giant like a big log or something to smack the enemy with"?

I mean you can pull shit like the "Scythe" out of your ass but giving Wun Wun a chopped down tree is too much to ask for?

Jon is a retard.

>he has the numbers we have to be patient
>don't fall into his traps

And then he charged head-first into the fucking trap.

Frozen ground is basically like stone.

Because this isn't Age of Empires where you have to kill every last man for the AI to realize it's lost

So much this. The outcomes are what we expect, but the path the characters follow to get to them is shit.

Would you do the same for your brother?

He lost Robb, he did not want to lose Riken too.

>this

He's basically all of the myths about how big the mountain is actually realised

He could wear inch thick plate armor and rock a great sword and shield and basically be unkillable unless someone has wildfire

why didnt they get Wun Wun a stick or even a basket of rocks what the fuck

now imagine Wun Wun with a big ass scythe

Not even 20 good men can stand up to that

Battles are won by making the other army flee. If they have nowhere to go, they get suicidally heroic since there's no better option.

Why didn't they just make him a bow like they did for the battle at The Wall? Shit would break down the door and pierce that whole fucking line of shields.

The moment Rickon was shot he should've turned back instead of compromising everything.

Would've make more sense if a Wildling was general instead of Jon desu. Has Jon ever really commanded anyone during the series never mind a full scale army?

Nope because I am autistic INTJ masterrace

>D&D praising themselves on a realistic medieval battle.
>"Where two parties meet at an agreed upon field and throw everything they have at each other."

Jon's actions were suicidal. it's plausible that people in real life might act that retarded, but in a story it just comes off as being for dramatic effect because he's been established as less hotheaded than that.

Also Sansa not mentioning LF at any point but then that's clearly just awful adaptation resulting from abandoning her Vale plotline.