Now that the smoke has cleared, do you think that he was a good antagonist?

Now that the smoke has cleared, do you think that he was a good antagonist?

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No. It was extremely obvious they were setting him up just to knock him down later this seasons. Having the "good guys" beat a villainous character against seemingly insurmountable odds is fucking gay and not why anyone watches Game of Thrones.

I miss when characters were accountable for their stupid mistakes.

No he was tedious

>character is alone in a room with Ramsay
>oh gee, I wonder what will happen next

He was good at first when he started torturing, then that got dull, then when he was just doing his antics he became pretty based.


He had too many easy wins but overall he was a pretty good villain, if not a good character.

Great when first introduced. Ran into ground when he became a major figure.

Ramsay was so predictable and flat that everyone knew everything he was going to do entire seasons ahead of when he did it.

>He's obviously going to kill Roose and become Lord Bolton.
>Then he'll kill his fat stepmom too once he's the new lord and no one can stop him.

And guess what happened.

But the worst part of it all was the way in which he was beaten. Where Jon lost his entire army simply because Sansa wanted to be the biggest cunt in the whole show and not tell him she had asked the Vale for help. Then they wreck his army due to over 9000 Vale reinforcements and Ramsay and Jon duel in the dumbest duel in the history of duels. It was all genuinely terrible.

And in order to set Ramsay up as a threat in the first place they had to bend all logic around him to make him more powerful than he was.

>give me 20 good men lel

We lost Stannis for this

Yes he was GOAT, the most dangerous character who kept everyone on edge

No, basically a Mary Sue as an antagonist. At least in the book he had flaws, he was ugly/fat, constantly manipulated by Roose, and not a masterful tactician and fighter. The show basically just wanted to build him up as a dark/edgy rival to Jon.

In other words, he's' the Shadow the Hedgehog of GoT. Hopefully his death will mark the end of the shittiness of the last 2 seasons.

His main purpose was being the father of Sansa's son, who will end up on the Iron Throne one day
Cap this

Oh fuck off with this shit people. Having the bad guys win all the time is just as fucking cliche. People who watch Game of Thrones because they think it's euphoric that it deliberately forced good guys to lose or think it should follow some ideology of bad guys always winning are falling for the lamest of tricks.

It wasn't even about overcoming insurmountable odds, the smaller force was getting slaughtered. A cavalry coming to their aid is not beyond reason and probably happens all the time.

>tfw D&D actually make Davos butcher Stannis' character even further post-mortem
They can't keep getting away with this.

Ugh I'm tired of all these idiots not understanding basic plot elements. First of all she didn't know for certain that little finger would come through. Second of all they had to draw Ramsey's whole army out before routing them, otherwise he'd just retreat to winter fell. He sent his army out when he though he had it in the bag. Plus Sansa urged Jon to wait for more troops, but Jon insisted on attacking when he did and falling for the trap to boot.

>At least in the book he had flaws, he was ugly/fat, constantly manipulated by Roose, and not a masterful tactician and fighter.
daym, sounds like a more interesting character than what the TV shit is

>Having the bad guys win all the time is just as fucking cliche
Fucking exactly. What he's obviously saying is that "bad guys/good guys" shouldn't have ever even been a thing in Game of Thrones, and that's why Ramsay was a shit antagonist. As an unreedemably "bad guy" with no major flaws, he got away with every single one of his actions in the past seasons, until this moment where we can feel happy because the "good guys" finally won. It's shit.

I can't believe we had to deal with him for three years. He was an unbelievably dull, one note villain.

his scenes in the books are good, GRRM does the rhyming thing really well

the show is ebola and only retards with sub 100 IQ are still watching that shit

> First of all she didn't know for certain that little finger would come through
So where was she during the battle?

>Second of all they had to draw Ramsey's whole army out before routing them, otherwise he'd just retreat to winter fell.
How would telling Jon prevent tat?

>Plus Sansa urged Jon to wait for more troops, but Jon insisted on attacking when he did and falling for the trap to boot.
He would have waited had he known there were more men available.

holy shit i can't tip hard enough

There is gonna be a power gap without him.
Who are the assholes left? Euron, Frey and high sparrow? Not nearly as hateable.

...

Frey and HS die next episode.

yes well done tumblr well done...

This shit is so transparent, I don't understand how people can watch the show and not see this downward progression in the quality of writing. The show has devolved to fan service to appease the masses.

A good example of a well-written villain is Joffrey. He 'wins' all the time, but not by his own direct machinations. His sense of ego and faux power lets him get away with murder (literally), but all comes crashing down when both Joffrey and the audience least expects it. Joff never had any real strength, both physical and mental.

A good example of a poorly written villain is (show) Ramsay. Not only does he win all the time, he does so with his unfailable physical and mental prowess. He fights off 50 Ironborn armorless while dual-wielding daggers. Every character ever falls into his epic trap. On top of this, just look how especially ridiculous Ramsay was this season. The writers were literally giving Ramsay character after character to kill, to set him up to die in the last episode.

He killed, with zero repercussions: Roose, Fat Walda, babby Roose, Osha, and Shaggydog.

Killing Rickon one could possibly argue had a single repercussion. If anything, it just baited Jon into falling into his ebin trap.

I'm not saying the bad guys need to always win, but the way that victories happen needs to make fucking sense. When Ned makes the mistake of trusting Littlefinger, he gets betrayed. When Robb makes the mistake of betraying the Freys, he gets murdered. Where was the accountability in this episode for all of Jon's shitty mistakes? Nowhere to be found. Ramsay made some stupid fucking mistakes that he should have been punished for as well, just not in this episode.

The episode was called Battle of the Bastards and everyone knew Jon wasn't going to die, since he was literally just brought back to life. The episode, and Ramsay's entire character arc was boring and predictable as a result. Also god fucking damn, does every battle in this show need to be ended by a last second cavalry charge?

So who the fuck is gonna be next season's "big villian"

nights king?

enjoy your liberal propaganda that shills open borders despite the fact your IQ is too low to even realize you are being manipulated and brainwashed

Why didn't he get his archers to climb the stack of bodies and shoot arrows at the crowd with the good men protecting the archers

Except literally every shitskin in GoT is made out to be scum, you edgy cunt.

>Hey jon, I messaged little finger for huge vale army. I'm not sure they will come though
> oh very nice Sansa, I'll wait it out for them. That will give us better chance and smaller casualties
> Also, if they get here, tell them to do it discreetly so that we can lure ramsay out of winterfell first
> Sure thing John


As oppose to
> John we need more men
> No shit Sansa, any idea where I can grab sum?
> Dunno lol, but you should just sit your ass in this camp indefinitely wasting supplies and waiting to get raped by 20 good men at night again.

>enjoy your liberal propaganda that shills open borders despite the fact your IQ is too low to even realize you are being manipulated and brainwashed


good, try throw in more buzzwords next time

Little Finger and Euron

Thats why they need strong white women to rule them :3

blatantly and patently wrong

kill yourself you paranoid blind nigger fuck

the buzzwords don't matter, all that matters is a picture.

says a thousand words dunnit? every frame a painting and all that

fuck off Sup Forums

>Great when first introduced.

No the fuck he wasn't. He was the reason Season 3 was so fucking dragged on. We didn't really need 10-15 fucking scenes of Ramsay's entry-level torturing.

can I come too?

He's had a few interesting scenes, but most are repetitive as fuck torture segmetns.

user, I'm basically Ben "segregation in every nation" Garrison over here, and even I'm capable of just enjoying a show every once in a while.

Nah, he was.

youre all missing that if she told jon he would not fight with them because he jewed ned

>wahhhhh Sup Forums is my safe space

you can go back to Tumblr or Reddit anytime user

There's so many movies and shows I haven't seen no point wasting time on ones that just so blatantly shit and obvious with their agenda

and even if I do want to watch a show with a more liberal agenda, there are better ones that aren't shit to watch

>unironically crying about safespaces whilst shitting your pants over a show that goes against your political beliefs

wew lad. I love when Sup Forums contradicts themselves

>do you think that he was a good antagonist?
Seasons 3-5, yes. I thought him trying to please his dad and the messed up relationship he had with Miranda gave him some depth.

Season 6 after he kills his dad there is nobody left to keep him in check and he crossed that line between everyday villainy and cartoonish super villany. It's like how Joffrey was interesting to watch because you could see how Tywin, Cersei, and Tyrion tried to rein him in. Watching Roose try to have some control out over him was interesting, once Roose was out of the picture Ramsay became pretty boring and one-dimensional.

this. fucking hate the 'white savior' bitch, that shot disgusts me. every white liberals dreams, knowing they 'helped' the uncivilized brown people. white mans burden.
every thirty something white woman would go on about how she is a 'boss ass bitch'.
also the scene with the masters and tyrion just exemplified this, she may have abolished slavery but she has just established a new immoral hierarchy.
fucking liberals that call themselves leftists

That's perfectly fine. I just really like fantasy, that's why I'm willing and capable of looking past its flaws and enjoy it nonetheless.

If you can't then watch something else instead. I just don't see the point of getting all upset about someone else enjoying something that you don't think very highely of.

How am I shitting my pants, I just chose not to watch it because it's utter shit

You can watch it, but I'm just saying if you don't realize you're being manipulated into believing a certain agenda you're a low IQ cretin

for your sake i hope this is b8, you must be annoying as fuck.

Do you think it would have been better if they subverted expectations and had Roose kill Ramsay?

And have Roose at the battle of Winterfell?

Oh yeah and having the interesting characters killed off for no apparent reason is top notch directing.

i hate that they made him a coward this season... early ramsey was an evil cunt but he was no coward.

Someone post the image with the spoilers

It's more the fact that dumb ass Americans don't even realize they're watching propaganda

The Red Wedding and Ned's death weren't for "no apparent reason."

Jon recruited wildlings who murdered most of his friends at castle black, I don't think he mind. I don't think he even know what little finger did since he was stuck in castle black with limited information

Also, even if he has problem with little finger, he has no problem with the army of Vale, which is a house that is in good relation with the Stark

>entry-level

Holy fuck what would you consider to be 'advanced' then?

There's only so much shit you can do to someone before the person starts to die

That would've been infinitely better.

How about freezing some poor bastard to death?

Khaled El-Masri, a German national who was wrongfully detained and tortured for over four months in 2004 by water-boarding him 83 times in one month.

ibtimes.co.in/new-declassified-documents-reveal-how-cia-abused-tortured-prisoner-683384

i keep seeing this "she didn't know if he would come." shit. she knew damn well LF would come if she sent a raven asking for help.

I can beat that 2bh

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yes.

If you watched a medieval/gang/horror film outside of your mainstream line-up, it was obvious from the start Ramsay's end goal was to cut Theon's dick off. 2-3 brutal scenes were necessary, but an entire season filled with scenes wasn't. Seeing how Theon managed to still consider himself human and a Greyjoy instead of being "Reek" meant Ramsay didn't do a good job.

So how does it all end?

The GOT franchise is firmly in the hands of HBO now and they can do with it what they want.

I predict 3 more seasons before it stops making money and they abruptly end it, a la Sopranos.

The Fat Man got paid off, is enjoying his twilight years to the fullest and doesn't give a fuck.

Stopped watching after S3 when it became glaringly apparent GOT wasn't going anywhere.

Let me know how it ends and maybe I'll catch up on the rest of it.

I won't catch up on the rest of it. GOT is now product and no longer a story.

Sorry lads, but it is what it is.

What happened to Ramsey?

>3 more seasons
>Abruptly cut it off
You're wrong

Most people don't, not just Americans. And even those who are sceptical often fail to understand why and how they are manipulated.

I understand that this is frustrating, I also would like to live in a world in which people are understanding and not led by the nose to act against their own interest, but blaming people for their ignorance is not going to solve anything.

If you want to blame someone, blame the people responsible for this not their victims.

Ahahahah what the fuck. Littlefinger guaranteed assistance to Sansa if she asked, but she was reluctant to do that or even tell Jon literally just because she was embarrassed to do so after chewing him out.

What could have happened:
>Hey Jon, I can actually get a huge army from the Vale to help us.
>Oh cool, so let's commit to our original plan of playing defensively until the Vale knights can pull a Rohirrim on Ramsay's army when they've committed themselves to the attack.
>Also let's give our giant a fucking tree to use as a club or something.

So how does it all end?

What will be 'The Canon' going forward, and how will it resolve?

I'd love to hear your fanfic.

In the real world, it will drag on until it stops making bank, with no Canon to follow.

I say three more seasons then kaput, no real closure or resolution.

What say you?

How was he a coward?

Even when he was surrounded by archers and an entire fucking army outside his gates, he was still openly taunting Jon

They are already killing of plots that would help the series continue past the 8 seasons D&D want to make. The Ironborn and Dorne plot has been severely streamlined/completely destroyed so as to have no excuse at prolonging the show.
Season 7 and 8 are going to be half seasons, so they can use the bigger budget to their advantage.

Ramsey was eaten by his own dogs for fucking Sansa on their wedding night and having Reek watch .

No he wasn't, because while every other character on the show suffered and died because their actions had consequences, he suffered and died because Sansa's autistic cousin values the opinion of a man who just wants to fuck Sansa, and the orgins of that go way back in a fucked up Tully love triangle

So no, I didn't like Ramsay's death ultimately resulting from an old fucked up Tully love triangle

Dropped when he killed Roose, shitty and predictable and a waste of Roose.

him not accepting the one on one fight with jon was clearly supposed to make him look like a coward... comparing this scene to the one where theon's sister tried to free theon seems inconsistent character wise

>Also let's give our giant a fucking tree to use as a club or something.
1000x this. Clearly if you have a fucking giant your strategy should be centered around 'how could we best utilize our giant?'
I hate that he wasn't even able to break the shield wall. That tactic shouldn't have worked at all.

This would have saved atleast half Robs army. Good job looking out for the Northern men Sansa, sure glad a Stark is back in charge. I really hope they make her an antagonist now just so that scene isnt the dumbest decition in the entire series.

I think the Sansa-thing is kind of-- anime-esque. The whole thing is supposed to be about "I had to let him be trapped in order to lay an even bigger trap, otherwise mastermind Ramsay could've out-trapped us, sacrifices needed to be made", but seems like it didn't arrive at the audience. And with good reason because it's way too over the top. Thought I was watching an anime (Attack on Titan or Death Note something with ""strategy"" like that) for a second.

No, he was shit. Everything always went his way and he was two-dimensional.

I was finished caring about him after his "she's good meat, feeds her to the hounds" line. There he was showing possibly a hint of humanity toward a girl he cared for, but instead we just get more edgelord "I'm a badguy, hate me." Roose was far more interesting. Ramsay should have been completely cut

I thought one of the main themes of this series was that there wasn't such things as goodguys and badguys.

>thinking they give two fucks about medieval war time strategy in this show

lmao

Somehow i have the feeling that Euron is gonna meet the White Walkers at some point.

The writing really is quite shit when you put more than five seconds of thought into it.

It would have been better if, yeah know, Jon and his soldiers were in on it?

The whole battle was a suicide run by Jon, he fully expected to lose and clearly didn't give a fuck about any plan they might have because he was outnumbered 3 to 1 and had inferior troops

His entire outlook on the battle would have changed if he knew Sansa's cousin had rallied the entire Vale to his cause and was on the way to help him out

>It was extremely obvious they were setting him up just to knock him down later this seasons
Wow. Almost sounds like the description of an antagonist. Horrible writing indeed.

He needed Sansa to become the warden of the north, but treated her like shit forcing her to run away or kill herself. Ultimate retard.

Iwan Rheon or whatever his name is is going to be in demand after this.

It's not even so much about war strategy as inconsistent power levels. We've seen the giant wreck houses as well as a fortified castle gate (like 10 minutes later) with his bare hands, but some guys with shields is somehow too much?
And yeah, not giving him a weapon is dumb.

Roose should have killed Ramsay.

I wish they played up his insecurity about being a bastard. The scene when Roose legitimized him was great, and he actually showed a different side to the character

dany

It was bad enough that no one was brought up to speed on the Vale army coming, including the Boltons who apparently had no fucking scouts or anyone else noticing several thousand men crossing thousands of miles of terrain. But no, what was really bad as well was that after crossing this amount of space completely uncontested and unnoticed, they of course happened to arrive *just* in the nick of time. Like fucking really - 5 minutes later and they all would've been toast.

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Did you miss how he called Jon "bastard" a billion times last ep? He was insecure as fuck, I cringed every time what an insecure faggot.

Yes, but the show didn't have much time to build his character more.

Ramsay was basically an example of nipping evil in the bud before it sprouts. The GoT world has a way of letting evil guys run rampant and not putting an end to them before it's too late. Here, we see a culmination of evil in a house that made the flaying of people their sigil in the character of Ramsay. But before he was truly able to wreak havoc, he was taken down.

I think this ep really showcased just how terrifying a Ramsay with power is. The army he had along with their scare tactics showed how cunning and ruthless Ramsay is and his potential for evil in the long run.

Although he did seem a bit one-sided further along the series, I think it's mostly because the show never got the chance to explore him as a character. What we see if him is mostly rushing to climb through the ranks by doing what he's best at. We never really how his character would be affected in a position of power and ruling.

I gotta admit though, they outdid themselves with the battle scene, i also enjoyed how he died. GJ to HBO

He was my favorite. Purely evil and psychotic but always just another man. Not some sauron level evil dark spirit haunting the world, but just a mad who finds exceptional joy in fucking your shit up, slowly, piece by piece.

If I was dull enough not to be able to understand that he eventually would be killed off, I would've joined Team Bolton seasons ago

so being fat/ugly is more of an excusable flaw than being a self-proclaimed sadist? no, you fucktard. if anything being born with an ugly mug is less of a motivating factor than the TV's version of Ramsey's motivation: the fact he was illegitimate and a bastard; he wold never amount to anything no matter how hard he tried, so he had to take things.

tl,dr: TV Ramsey > Book Ramsey

that's just straight up wrong, the book Ramsey chapters were awesome they had this whole rhyming thing and GRRM actually broke down Theon into a character called Reek

This.
Ramsay was an obvious huge liability, a mad dog who was pretty troublesome to Roose as well, and most of what happened yesterday could've happened with Roose (rationalizing that he rode out the army instead of hiding in Winterfell because of a)obvious huge advantage and b)showing the entire north and country what he is capable of). Probably wouldn't have had the Rickon scene like this (did the "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother"-line make it into the show?) but it could've worked much better. I was surprised Ramsay was such a good tactician when he seemed like such a meme (shirtless, 20 good men, doing shit that was bad for the family name) before.

I thought he was good up until everything went arcade when he killed his father and no one cared about it at all. From that point on it was just comic book villain which is very un-ASoIaF. I hope it does not turn out like this in the books.

Regardless of what I think of this season, I loved his scenes from earlier seasons, like torture scenes and such.