Welcome to the weekly Sup Forums jazz Blindfold Test thread. Every Friday and Saturday.
If you're new, the point of these threads is to have fun and encourage critical listening, discussion, and general enjoyment of jazz. All critical music listeners are welcome. The more participation we have, the more fun and successful these threads will be. In the interest of keeping the thread alive and bumped, any general jazz discussion is welcomed here as well.
For more information about how the threads work and listening suggestions, please refer to the pastebin: pastebin.com/5cjEr3A6
THIS WEEK'S THEME: Award Winners COMPILED BY: Jazzpossu
It's awards season and this weeks /blindfold/ is all about winning awards. We'll be winning so much that you'll get tired of all the winning by track 7, but we'll keep winning until the end.
Every track this week comes from an album that has won some sort of a jazz award or poll in 2010 or more recently.
Meta discussion on awards and their role in jazz today is welcome - commercial garbage, stuck-in-the-past drivel or a good way or recognizing deserving musicians and raising awareness of contemporary jazz?
Henry Russell
bump downloading now
Leo Cook
awareness bump
David Reyes
>Track 1 Multiple saxophones, or multitracking maybe? I’m going to guess multi-tracking due to the precision of it. Though it sounds like a big band now. I liked this quite a bit. The composition was great, really cool chart, but the improvisation was a little disappointing. Just too short mostly. I would have liked it to go on longer and spend more time developing, the way the composition did. I’m guessing it’s got to be the tenor player’s record, he had a familiar sound, but I’m not sure who this could be.
>Track 2 Two drummers eh? I don’t really like it. It feels like the drummers are trying not to get in each other’s way so they’re holding back, but still sometimes getting in each others’ ways anyway. The sax player is doing some cool stuff but none of it really feels connected to anything other than a few times when one of the drummers catches on to what he’s doing. He sounds kind of uncomfortable though. I didn’t really think this worked very well.
>Track 3 I like the piano playing, but the drumming isn’t my favorite. Yeah I’m liking this sax solo. The tone of the sax isn’t my favorite but he and the rest of the band are doing some nice stuff. As it builds I like what the drummer is doing more. Odd fadeout as it was getting interesting again. I’m not sure how I feel about the vocals and/or background effects that were going on throughout the track. I guess they added kind of an unsettling feeling to the whole thing so if that’s what they were going for then it worked. Pretty killer sax solo though.
Hudson Bennett
>Track 4 The production on this bums me out a little bit but the tune itself isn’t bad. It’s kind of harmonically simple though for my tastes, especially with so little going on rhythmically. I liked the simple start of the sax solo, but he just stays simple for the most part and there’s so little development or change through most of his solo. The rhythm section reflects that. The guitar solo is much better, though too short. The rhythm section comes to life during his solo. I was thinking maybe it was the guitarist’s record, but it must be the saxophonist’s. The guitarist’s solo was way better though.
>Track 5 There’re some cool ideas in this composition but I think the way they stick so close inside this basic rock groove kind of limits everything a little bit. The soloists do some cool stuff, but the rhythm section is basically just stuck in their groove and it makes it all just very stiff. I’m not really too sure about this middle section, tuba solo? Yeah and then around the 5 minute mark they finally get out of that boring rock groove and it’s way more interesting. Then it goes to this other feel for the rest of the track. I like it but I don’t know about the sound effects, kind of distracting. Compared to the composition of track 1 this one feels pretty basic and uninteresting.
Christian Nguyen
>1 this is a larger ensemble arrangement of a composition that the featured soloist/composer often uses as a starting point of a solo sax segment live
>3 I'd say contrasts like you note are indeed a major part of this album
Joseph Price
>Track 6 I like the feel of this. It’s pretty open and free, though the bassist seems kind of stuck in his obstinate pattern and the drummer just kind of goes with him. I also don’t really understand what the piano player is adding to this… his playing feels just kind of… impotent. I think it could have been better without him. It also would have been nice to hear this develop into something a little more- either dynamically or rhythmically or something. In terms of energy level I’d say it started at around a 3, and rose to maybe a 5, and then back down to a 3. Maybe it’s the kind of track that works in the context of the album but not as well on its own.
>Track 7 I liked the beginning of this, it was a cool buildup that didn’t really sound like anything else I’ve heard before. As the vibes solo is starting though I almost feel like the bass is just flat out missing. I guess there’s some kind of bass playing but it’s very low in the mix and sort of ‘dead’ sounding. Plus there’s this ambient synthesizer thing going on. I guess I don’t mind the synth that much, but I just want to hear some bass with this drumming and the nice vibes solo. The synth is too loud too, compared to all the other instruments. Then the mood shifts when the sax player comes in. His playing is very technical, even beboppy, kind of an odd contrast to what everyone else was doing. Almost sounds like Miguel Zenon… This was almost really cool, but a few odd things about it brought it down for me.
Gabriel Bell
>Track 8 Ray Brown trio kind of vibe on this. Could be Christian McBride maybe? I think he’s won some Grammys. The pianist was doing so much blues cliche to begin with but then he starts adding touches of outside harmony in there, then around the 4th chorus he just goes way out. Kind of cool in that way. The bassist and drummer go with him kinda but still reference the blues form. Pretty cool idea. Then a sax player comes in out of nowhere. And flute. And trombone. I’m interested to see how this will end. Is it going to go back to the straight blues or just keep getting more out? Ending with a drum solo. Lame.
This was a cool idea but a couple things could have made it a little better. The pianist never quite really nailed that feel at the beginning, if he had gotten deep in the pocket and played some Gene Harris/Oscar Peterson time stuff there at the beginning of his solo before going out that would have been really cool. Also I think a much cooler ending for this could have been to keep building it up and get more and more aggressive and loud with it until they just end suddenly on some type of cue. Or if they gradually went back to that traditional blues feel that could have been ok too. This ending was anti-climactic.
Kayden Fisher
>Track 9 I’ve noticed that several of these tracks seem to have drummers who have a lot of extra cymbals on their kit. The little splash cymbals and things, and this is at least the second one that has that little bell effect. I’ve never really been a fan of that sound. I’d guess this is an ECM album based on the production. This didn’t really do much for me. Seemed overly dramatic for what was really just sort of a simple theme that never really developed much.
>Track 10 Here’s another one where the production is making my spider sense tingle again. The drumming is up too loud in the mix and just sounds sloppy. And I just don’t think that snare sound belongs in jazz. Piano playing sounds sloppy too. Basically just rhythmically insecure. It’s hard to hear what the bassist is doing, due to the way it’s mixed. The bowed section in the middle is kind of nice, but still just sounds rhythmically shaky. Was there really any improvisation in the track? I suppose toward the end some of that is improvised? Anyway what little improv there was in this track seemed to be very amelodic, and any sense of melody this track had seemed to be from the written line. I’d say this was definitely my least favorite of the week. The bowed bass section in the middle was a good idea but not really that well executed. The rest of it wasn’t really a good idea and wasn’t very well executed either.
Noah Mitchell
So I don't think I really had any good guesses as far as artists for this week, but I also just noticed that it's only international jazz artists...
Any that I probably should have recognized?
Tyler Russell
not just international, I was just pointing out that there are awards from multiple countries - 4 US awards/artists and 6 international
I was pretty sure you'd have a definite ID on three of the US ones.
any guesses on where and what awards these might have won?
I tried to have a couple that could get good educated guesses, like for example there are three tribute albums included
Ayden Garcia
>8 you're certainly almost there with this one
Parker Martin
Ah.. yeah I never really follow any of the awards very closely so I really have no idea. I'll be pretty interested in seeing the reveal info I guess.
Jonathan Green
I at least tried to pick tracks that somehow tie into local culture or common award-y things and trends, so hopefully the reveal will be interesting
Evan Collins
How many songs are in this playlist? It's taking a while for me to download.
Jackson Parker
the usual ten tracks - 1 hour 6 minutes total play time, 123.6 MB size, pretty standard for a blindfold I think?
Nathaniel Long
zippy is weird for me sometimes. It will sometimes just stop downloading in the middle. I sometimes have to cancel the download and restart it 5-10 times before it actually goes.
Connor Garcia
in more random jazz things - as someone who follows these things, have you heard any buzz or mention from the New York scene ofa Belgian sax player called Robin Verheyen?
here in Finland this weeks big jazz release is pianist Aki Rissanen's new album with a trio with Verheyen (who he's been playing on and off with 10 years asince their student days, I think they met at the Paris conservatory) on sax and Markku Ounaskari on drums and Robin said at last evening's release concert that he has an album coming out with his New York quintet in six months with Marc Copland on piano, Drew Gress on bass and Billy Hart on drums, so I was wondering with sidemen like that whether he already has some name recognition
Haven't heard of him, but with a band like that it sounds like a record I'll want to hear. Who else is in the quintet though? I only see four guys that you listed.
I'm hoping to get to NY once or maybe even twice within the next 6 months so maybe I'll get a chance to see him. Any idea if he plays regularly anywhere?
Owen Bailey
hmh. somehow I was thinking it was a "quintet", but checking what I actually Googled for additional info last night it's just a quartet with those fellows
I think what got me confused is that Dave Liebman has an album called Five on One that has the same sidemen, but also with Abercrombie on guitar and I know Liebman has mentored Rissanen and even recorded with him, so I figured that's probably the origin story behind Verheyen's band as well
Sebastian Gray
bumping with this year's Grammy winner for Best Improvised Jazz Solo - John Scofield's I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry from Country For Old Men
I think it's cool that there is an actual industry award for an improvised solo, but I've had a pretty hard time getting behind any of the selections desu
also I think the very clever album title was by far the best thing about Country For Old Men, but then again I think the title places very highly in the ranking of cleverest jazz album titles of all time
Henry Cruz
I remember rolling my eyes the first time I saw that album title.
>in the ranking of cleverest jazz album titles of all time Where does Ericle of Dolphi fall in that list? and what else is in a high spot?
Austin Johnson
Also I think pic related has to be up there in the lists of both great album titles and great album covers.
Jaxson Miller
Ericle of Dolphi rates quite highly, I think.
It's a good question, actually, I quite like Country For Old Men because of the self-deprecation angle, I think that really elevates it from all the cheesy jazz album punny names like any reference to walking on a Leroy Vinnegar album (walking bass, geddit!) or any puns on someone's name being Art or such. There are tons of really cheesy puns in jazz album names, actually, now that I think about it.
It's on the surface level a very cheap pop culture reference, but I like how it actually captures the potential target audience of a "Scofield plays country" album.
Parker Stewart
Jazz musicians seem to have a thing for puns... not sure why that is exactly. I've never given too much thought to best jazz album titles before though. I'll have to think of some other ones as I'm teaching lessons this afternoon.
David Fisher
George Duke is just an incredible character to me in how wide his range was from "really cool and funky dude" to "huge embarrassment".
I used to be a big fan of Frank Zappa's music as a teenager and the Roxy band with Duke on keyboards was my favorite period.
Then when I was starting to get into jazz, one of the first "jazz" CDs I bought was the Clarke/Duke Project CD because I'd seen some mention of how "era defining" it was (I learned how that can be a big negative then) - terrible smooth 80's wankery, still one of the worst albums IMHO I've paid good money for.
then later I discovered that his early smooth 70's jazz/funk/soul albums are actually quite good smooth 70's jazz/funk/soul and I like him again
then I find out about all this cheap-ass junk with creepy covers that he's done since the 70's - and it's not just that there are questionable covers, he's made some of the most worthless smooth wank music that could possibly be called jazz
how did this guy who made all this cool music turn into the guy who made this paint-by-colors plastic junk?
Joshua Gonzalez
I think it's a factor of having very little to work with - no original lyrics, no obvious reference
I've actually been thinking about the pros and cons of the abstract nature of instrumental jazz - basically I really like how jazz can speak to a diverse audience by being abstract, but then again a lot of jazz is actually self-indulgent and punny naming (or purely descriptive naming like "5/4 thing" or such) with no substance is evidence of that.
I think the Mingus way is the right way - "Fables of Faubus" and all that - play abstract, but make your music mean real things by giving it a name.
I think "Country For Old Men" works exactly because it's not just a pun, but a deliciously ironic statement on the content and audience of the album.
Colton Kelly
I've never really explored his music very much at all. I'm not sure if I've ever even heard a full album of his.
Thomas Jones
Well even beyond just album and tune titles, jazz musicians seem to like puns. Get a group of them together to hang and there are always going to be some puns. I think that just sort of goes along with the improvisational mindset, and "playing" off of what someone else says.
I think the puns and descriptive song titles are more a thing of the past. It seems like a lot of my favorite musicians mostly use representational titles, usually representing some abstract idea line "Returning" or "Equilibrium" or something like that.
That's one reason I always like well-written liner notes. It's always nice to get some insight as to what the title means and where it comes from.
Liam Wilson
I still believe actually great things in rock/jazz were taking place when Duke was in Zappa's band - that era is to me best-in-era quality material
Feel, Faces in Reflection and The Aura Will Prevail are essential albums in that whole mess of jazz/soul/r&b/fusion of the 70's. It you look at modern music drawing from that style and era: Thundercat's thing could totally be based on just those 3 Duke records.
That one Duke/Billy Cobham live album with the creepy heads-connected-to-hands live album is pretty good, too.
Beyond that it's a really mixed bag - I know good keyboard players who like some later Duke stuff, but there's a lot of smooth junk that way AFAIK and I won't recommend going there for any decent taste.
Hudson Watson
Well I've never really been a huge Zappa fan.
Cameron Sanders
I'm pretty sure this is a more important cultural milestone than you'd think - there is a clear and strong correlation between the birth of true European jazz and musicians really liking Frank Zappa
Anthony Campbell
I'm off to bed
Keep thread alive and if you're interested in jazz, take a chance: the water is fine, dive right in.
If the music makes you feel, it's real.
Jose Ross
I usually try to let my thoughts on music be influenced by anything extra-musical but for some reason Zappa is an exception for me. Pretty much everything about his personality and persona pisses me off. I guess I didn't realize he was so popular with European jazzers.
Robert Miller
bump
Noah Johnson
It's an odd thing - Zappa's persona and music was for some reason highly influential in Eastern Europe and a generation of jazz musicians sees him as a great inspirational figure pretty much
Anthony Williams
Bump
Parker Jenkins
In trying to think of more clever/corny album titles I thought of all the ones that use colors. Red's Blues, Greenstreet, Red in Bluesville... I'm sure there are others.
