that time you almost gave up on film/tv.
>ending of true detective, season 1
>rust turns into a phantasmagorical idiot in the last 5 min
i could stand the pretentious speech about being a pessimist in the first episode, him making antinatalism look flaccid, but i could not listen to that shit where he found god, his little girl, at the end. fuck that shit.
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IMO he's not talking about finding God. I thought it was more Lovecraftian than that, and the "living darkness" or whatever he talks about was the TRUE Carcosa that he slipped into while he was between living and dying
how could you take that after rust's stupid conclusion:
>"Well, once there was only dark. If you ask me, the light's winning." -Rust
>hating TD S1 ending
Confirmed pleb who never understood Rust to begin with.
Rust had been lying to himself for years, just like he criticized the people in the rivival tent for doing only he used different lies. His breakdown was him finally accepting that he loved his daughter and was deeply hurt by her loss. All the things he said about things not mattering, about the pointlessness of life, those were just the lies he told himself to rationalize loosing her.
>His breakdown was him finally accepting that he loved his daughter and was deeply hurt by her loss.
And?
>All the things he said about things not mattering, about the pointlessness of life, those were just the lies he told himself to rationalize loosing her.
Explain how they were lies.
Whether or not you are an edgy fedora, he didn't believe them as he told them to himself. That's why they're lies.
>Whether or not you are an edgy fedora
ad hom
>he didn't believe them as he told them to himself.
yeah, he flip flopped with no logic or rationale.
>a throwaway insult is ad hom
I don't know why I expected an atheist to have brains.
And he didn't flip flop, he never believed it in the first place.
>I don't know why I expected an atheist to have brains.
rofl. you actually think im going to spend time denying what there is no proof of my entire life. fucking pleb.
>And he didn't flip flop, he never believed it in the first place.
prove it. and that still says nothing about him being logical or rational about his conclusion.
>he was religious allllll along!111 weeeee
wow, so edgy.
Your mind is small and uncreative
It's not about preaching about God, he just found goodness after an unhappy and brutal life and he saw it as being with his family again
fuck your shit, wiener man
...
The end made me cry both times I watched it
It's not about whether he's logical or rational. It's about him confronting what he actually believed and accepting the accompanying pain and catharsis that came with it. Please just return to Reddit, they like your brand of pseudo intellect.
>everyone i disagree with is from reddit
Life is very simple for you, isn't it?
>It's not about whether he's logical or rational.
That's what makes him religious... he's a feely, religious, sjw type.
Don't watch Season 2 now, but watch "Beasts Of NO Nation" instead on Netflix.
It's not about whether you disagree, it's how you do it that makes you well suited for Sup Forums's favorite boogeyman. And believe me, you are well suited.
Its got nothing to do with religion. We're talking about a man who, in his own words, only got out of bed in the morning because "its my programming and I lack the constitution for suicide" does that sound normal or healthy to you?
Rust was fucked up from a life of tragedy that he never emotionally dealt with instead he tried to rationalize it all away. You can tell yourself all day long that nothing really matters, and maybe its true, but when something happens like loosing your 10 year old daughter its still gonna hurt like hell. Rust didn't want to let it hurt though, he tried instead to throw himself into his work and just kept telling himself that it didn't really matter but none of that shit can ever really make it go away.
He didn't "find god" at the end, he finally admitted to himself that he missed his daughter and accepted the pain of it.
>Beasts Of NO Nation
i avoided that shit like the plague... collin farrell and vince vaughen? i'd rather pluck my ballsack hairs. i will take a look at your recommendation, thx.
sorry, meant to greentext true detective season 2
Does the second season have a satisfying payoff? Because the first season had little girls going missing and a satanic cult with ties everywhere. That was interesting. Then I get to the second season and it's just contracts going wrong so far.
Rust fpund God the same way I did. By almost getting kill
>this show sucks! they stopped catering to my belief system and now i hate it!
16 year old detected
End yourself pleb, If you don't get Rust final message
a show somewhat tries to have depth and completely fails at the end... and im the 16 year old for expecting more. i suppose that's legit.
I hated S2 ending. I just watched it for the first time recently.
S2 in general was not as bad as I was expecting but it certainly had some serious issues and the ending was one of them.
S1 ending was beautiful if you weren't a moron and actually understood Rust instead of just thinking "omg he's le edgey witty atheist just like me lol xD".
Your entire attitude to the show changed when it stopped aligning with your personal belief's. That is beyond childish
It didn't fail it succeeded flawlessly. S1 is literally perfect television.
>our entire attitude to the show changed when it stopped aligning with your personal belief's. That is beyond childish
Yeah, because it presented itself as logical and rational, but then just turned back into retarded television. forgive me for being disappointed. i didn't know i wasn't allowed to have opinions.
You can have an opinion. No-one is criticizing you for that. People are pointing out that your disappointment to the ending doesn't stem from a narrative failing but your own personal belief's.
You should rewatch it sometime. Rust was never an edgelord that's the point
Fairly certain you're just trolling but That is who Rust was and what he was doing. What do you not understand about that?
>People are pointing out that your disappointment to the ending doesn't stem from a narrative failing
You have not explained why that's the case. Just some plastic, bs response that holds no candle to logic.
>The Andromeda–Milky Way collision is a galactic collision predicted to occur in about 4 billion years between the two largest galaxies in the Local Group
how can you honestly claim that the light isn't winning? don't you realise that this whole thing is about all life becoming sentient so that the universe can experience it's own glorious wonder? Pessimists are the WORST kind of people, nobody wants to be around them and they are either lazy or stupid because it doesn't take much soul searching to find some meaning to life. Have fun being a sad little fuck for the rest of your earthly incarnation faggot.
>because it presented itself as logical and rational
It did nothing of the sort, the part that tells you flat out that Rust's rationalising was harmful and cancerous to him is the one bit you don't want to grasp
It's been explained many times already in this thread. Just because you don't want to accept it won't change what happened.
Protip: Very few changes of heart are because of logic
>how can you honestly claim that the light isn't winning?
Start with: youtube.com
You're romanticizing your existing through some stupid line.
admittedly the ending wrapped up in an underwhelming way but for the average viewer it was extremely emotional and rewarding. you just didn't enjoy it because Sup Forums has turned you into a compulsive contrarian, you lack emotional maturity and let's face it user you're kind of a dork.
>Protip: Very few changes of heart are because of logic
and that cliche is what made this show shit. it actually tried to have depth and failure ensued in the last 5 minutes.
See
You seem to be angry that Rust wasn't who you wanted him to be.
If you don't like his character fine but can you at least accept that it was not flip flopping and he never was who you thought he was?
kek you expect me to watch some blurry youtube video about Nigger DeWeed Tyson? The infamous black science man? He's also a sad little fuck just like you. You'll never rethink your life because you're already too conditioned to being depressed and stuck in your ways. Ways that lead to nowhere, to unhappiness, you are just an evolutionary mistake, a chemical imbalance and our species will be all the better for it when you die.
>You seem to be angry that Rust wasn't who you wanted him to be.
no, i seemed to have enjoyed the entertainment until the very end... kind of like that movie sunshine which turned to shit the last 1/3 of the movie.
>Ways that lead to nowhere, to unhappiness
I like how I'm inherently depressed and unhappy... shows how little you understand.
Give us your analysis on Rust pls, who do you think he was.
The entire series is a show and tell of a certain ideology. Rust is used to narrate a perspective of life, and then the episode shows evidence supporting it.
I don't think there's any reason to believe Rust was lying to himself the whole time to cope with his pain. He probably did believe what he was saying. At the very end, however, he changes the way he views it. You can have multiple feelings about a certain truth, and just because you suddenly feel differently about a truth doesn't mean you disagreed with it all along. You can view God or meaninglessness as a truth (as an example, not Rust's position), but how you feel about it, apathy or joy or disdain, doesn't change your belief in it.
Ultimately, the writers show very little evidence for any arguments against Rust's position throughout the series, and I think it's hard to interpret the resolution as a last ditch effort of "oops turned out I was wrong all along." That would simply be poor writing and inconsistent with the overall quality of the series.
I couldn't get two episodes in.
he was a pseudo-antinatalist who wheel chaired his way back into religious gobbledygook in the last 5 minutes. the end.
i didn't realize how stupid his name was until that moment... fucking "rust"... laying it on thick like a writer with an infinite brainfart.
There's plenty of evidence. I think you focused too much on Rust while ignoring the people around him.
Like the scene at the revival tent you think what Marty said to him meant nothing? "For someone who says he doesn't care about existence you sure talk about it allot and why do you always sound so nervous?"
Rust was scared and in pain like everyone else but he wouldnt deal with it he just told himself it didn't matter and tried to distract himself with work.
What was the intention of naming the character Rust?
rust: deteriorate through neglect or lack of use.
>I like how I'm inherently depressed and unhappy... shows how little you understand.
You've accepted your reality and are unwilling to change it. How do i go about changing it? Change your fucking beliefs. They don't have to be "Religious" or the same as anybody else's. They can be completely unique to your individual, hell look at Rust, you think anybody else shared his fucked up way of seeing the world? All of this was a metaphor and it applies to you and your life right now. What you believe dictates your experience. Rust cornered his philosophical outlook into an inescapable circle of finite bounds. Don't be like Rust user. I pray that by the time you hit your 30's somebody has shown you love or even better you learn to love yourself.
>You've accepted your reality and are unwilling to change it.
You seem to think there's evidence for free will. Explain.
>They can be completely unique to your individual
>individual
There's that word again.... that special word to make us feel all warm and gooey inside... special.
>prove it. and that still says nothing about him being logical or rational about his conclusion.
Prove he believed what he said
I don't see any reason why he can't still be an atheist at the end. He stopped lying to himself about his pain user that was the point. You're the one making this about religion.
>"oops turned out I was wrong all along."
Also known as an epiphany, not necessarily an indication of poor writing.
Look at it this way, the preacher Rust and Marty talk to in the 90s that Rust goes to see again in the 2000s suffers a crisis of faith and turns to alcohol in the interim, is that an example of poor writing because what he seemed to know to be absolute truth fell away and knocked his legs out from under him?
I agree that he probably didn't just decide in the hospital that he was totally wrong about all his proselytizing, I think what's more important (and what the writers were maybe trying to lead us to) is that Rust no longer seem to prioritize those things, the cliche way of phrasing it, what OP is complaining about, is that he basically discovers that there really is more to life.
It's also not the writers job to provide alternate arguments to Rust's position, it's a piece of fiction, not a debate club. The viewer should know to question even the most apparently reliable protagonist/narrator if they can sense flaws in their character (Rust's obviously buried emotions at the death of his daughter for instance).
evidence for free will = the duality of good/evil and our sovereign right to chose from it
>individual
nobody will ever live your life. you have cemented this short time of being in the universe as yours. whether you want to be or not you are special. i have to say user, you're not dealing with individual responsibility very well.
>the duality of good/evil and our sovereign right to chose from it
that's a non-answer. elaborate.
>nobody will ever live your life
"unique" =/= individual.
see, this is why lovecraft is good. people go mad, die horribly. that's horror, not a feelfeels ending where everyone survives and has a good time. lovecraft wrote what he knew and he hated people, he hated his life. and that's why it works. it's believable.
This is deteriorating into a religion/free will debate when the actual real world truth of those things is irrelevant.
The consistency of Rusts character in the show is what matter.
>believes that life is pointless and he's just going through the motions
>stop a pedophile/murder cult
>find purpose in life again
MAKES NO SENSE
CHRISHUNS ARE DUM
>The consistency of Rusts character in the show is what matter.
and that consistency of his character was laid to rest in the last 5 min
>elaborate
now you're just baiting. please user if that wasn't enough then i implore you to go waste your own time learning about free will.
>"unique" =/= individual.
is somebody else experiencing your consciousness right now or are you the only one?
>then i implore you to go waste your own time learning about free will.
>waste your own time
So you admit it's shit. Very well, I accept your white flag
>character growth is awful
>unless he grows into my feelings and belief system more firmly
Get to bed son, it's a school night
Taking "light" as form and "dark" as void, void is infinite and form is finite and therefore, in terms of its relationship to void, nonexistent. lol.
No it wasn't and plenty of arguments to the contrary have been made but you don't refute them you just post about your own personal beliefs.
Is this for discussing the show or just a thinly veiled "I'm an atheist, debate me" thread?
>logical conclusions don't matter
okay, michael bay. enjoy your violence and cliche feelz.
No, the "lie" he told himself was the big one at the end where he rationalized the existence of meaning due to the pathos-inducing effects of what was presumably dopamine release in his brain while physically near death. His pessimistic ramblings before then were logically sound, even though Nikki Pizza intended them to function as lies in his fictional story. The ending of TDS1 might be the most insidious Hollywood-model ending of all time.
>character suffers
>character confronts his suffering with rationality and reaches pessimistic conclusion
>character spends 8 hours expressing this sound but unsavory pessimistic ideology
>in the end, character reverses pessimistic ideology based on his feelings, with no actual rationale behind it
The whole season was comfort food disguised as a bitter truth-pill.
...
Good pointers. Thanks.
This, there's no evidence that in THIS SHOWS PARTICULAR UNIVERSE Rust's ideology is flawed. In fact he is made more heroic for his rightness and continuing to work on the side of "good" despite it. The ending can't function as an epiphany when he's turning to a world the audience never saw, where people can be happy. The ending fails precisely because it fails the narrative by shoving in implications of a benevolent universe seen NOWHERE else save for Rusts commentary.
Are we forgetting the cult is still out there. It would have been genius had Rust been given a final shot to indicate he was lying for Marty's benefit/ours. But Pizza is a fucking plagiarist hack.
The fact that some of you are commending season 1s ending as some sort of
Moral revelation when it neuters the only morally righteous character in the show is so fucking fitting. It would be ironic but I've come to expect this sort of thing.
The ending is uncharacteristically happy for HPL yes but I would still say the show captured the Lovecraft vibe better than most actual adaptations of his work.
They all make the mistake of thinking his stories are "about" monsters but saying they're "about" monsters is like saying Poe's Telltale Heart is literally about a heart beating in the floor boards, no its about guilt and HPL stories are about existential dread and the insignificance of man.
>It would have been genius had Rust been given a final shot to indicate he was lying for Marty's benefit/ours.
oh shit it would have been.... wtf pizza
Except for it betrays his character when every episode he belittles anyone who disagrees with him.
Before I get called out on it I saw that on bloggers site, The Last Psychiatrist. But he pretty much nailed it.
It would have demonstrated he was actually so defeated by his failure to get the cult that he was willing to give up arguing OR that he was making a slight shift emotionally. Either way better than the hamfisted shit we got
But there are hints Rust was lying to himself. Look at how Marty and his wife deal with him. They never accept his bullshit because they know the real Rust is just a scared hurt man who doesn't wanna admit the truth to himself.
But since Marty ended up being basically the only person Rust felt any fondness for, it makes sense that he would show him some mercy in that regard. That could basically be, in character development terms, the purpose of their evolving character dynamic over the course of the season.
There was literally nothing hamfisted about the ending.
i don't know where you get this idea that Rust was denying he was in pain. You think he was in denial but he denied nothing about his life. It didn't manifest in tears or...whatever it is you think people do when they're depressed.
And the irony of that scene was that Rust still had moral superiority/the truth on his side. He saw the facade for what it was, a very tenuous performance on their part laid low finally when the wife fucks him. Another nail in the coffin of this "true" world you think Rust is avoiding but that doesn't exist at all in the show.
Remember it's tv. Not real life. We're not supposed to say "But Rust could go to therapy or the Grand Canyon!" What's there is there, and I don't see Rust lying to anyone about his condition just sublimating it to some extent.
That's the entire debate of the thread. Why not contribute to what's already been said instead of starting over again. Or is this the extent of Sup Forums's mental capacity
Oh really? He epic 2 on one super strength fight scene? The FUCKING INTERDEMENSIONAL PORTAL? The abrupt shift in character for the sake of an ending that was supported by neither tone or narrative? The ending was a catastrophe.
Or it would have been if the show hadn't gone down hill after episode 4 which is right around where pizzolato stopped stealing that guys ideas/words.
The whole point of his character is that he never dealt with his greif he repressed it and in the end he finally deals with it I don't understand why you can't see that.
It was like the opposite of the Sopranos ending, which is a bad thing.
Sopranos:
>constant humor
>characters telling themselves they care about each other
>Tony trying to solve his depression thru therapy
>muh Catholicism
>muh rock and roll music
>cut to black, it's all fucking shit
TD:
>Rust laying out exactly how meaning in life is impossible
>constant barrage of nihilistic imagery
>characters constantly at each other's throats
>but wait, Marty, while in a literal unconscious state i saw god
>ends with big "muh daughter, muh theism" monologue
>my perception of this character and situation is objectively 100% correct
>logic
Colin Farrell is actually the best thing about it, but you're right to stay away, don't bother with S2
>tfw we were born 4 billion years too soon
Even your positive thinking is triggering me
I think I need to clarify the "truth" that I think Rust was denying.
I think the message of the show is that life is strange and painful and scary. We're all just people alone in the void searching for meaning/comfort. Rust lied to himself by telling himself he was above that.
All the facts in the world don't take away the pain of loosing a child. You can know that it doesn't really matter, that there was no point in your existence or hers and you can be right but that doesn't take the pain away.
In the end he accepted that.
Harold and Maude my negro
You just stating what happens doesn't say anything about if it was well done, made sense, or was necessary in the first place. If Rust had jumped up out of the chair and they had sung a little number about rust feeling better that would also have been what you're describing, but it would have been just as inexplicable and out of place (well a little moreso). See what I'm saying?
>free will
>implying
>loosing
Every fucking time. But in all seriousness this gets my upvote ;^)
I don't think it was out of place though, there were hints all along.
Marty and his wife knew this that's why they stood by him even though he was kind of a dick.
They knew he was a deeply hurt man who needed comfort even though he wouldn't admit it, even if he couldn't see it himself they could and you could to if you weren't just jerking it to Rust.
good and evil are human terms, contrivances of human consciousness to give us the illusion we somehow operate on some meaningful plane. anything we interpret or extract from the universe is mere human biology relaying information back and forth to create dichotomies that would not exist without our being. the duality you speak of is not objective, its an interpretation. morality is not relative, these are all constructs, concepts which can't be measured or tested much like our own consciousness. the universe the way see it is a product of human projection and it always will be.
First of all, again, I'm not seeing where Rust ever implied he wasn't in pain.
And second, you're positing that Rust learned to deal with the pointlessness of her death BUT THAT DOESNT JIVE WITH THE ENDING YOU ACCEPT! He says he feels her presence or some shit! So which is it? Are we grounded in reality and people die and that's it or is there some force in the universe taking care of dead daughters?
I object to more with your post but I'm not gonna get into it
Couldn't agree a whole lot more with this. I still really like S1, but the ending is a blemish.
He pretty much tells the officers he's glad she's gone, I can't remember the exact words now but its before he goes into that thing about "the hubris of bringing a soul out of non existence into this meat grinder, this thresher." That's obvious bullshit no one would ever be glad their kid was gone, he missed her like anyone would.
Rust was living a toxicly hopeless life. This was a man who again by his own words only got out of bed in the morning because "its my programming and I lack the constitution for suicide" that's not sustainable. He didn't have reasons to live he just had reasons not to die.
If he remained like that the logical end for him would be suicide and they even hint he was considering that. When Marty asks why he came back he pretty much says he felt he needed to finish the case before offing himself.
Instead though in the end Rust finally let's himself take a little comfort and I don't see that as a bad ending at all.
You can't lie about your very nature, Rust indeed is a pessimistic, depressed as fuck nihilist and no dreams of his dead daughter can change that.
I'm tired of debating this, if you want to give Rust a "happy" ending that's fine I guess, but you would have to rewrite swathes of the show as it was to justify that swiitch.
Rust was right. IN THAT UNIVERSE, nothing save for his work was worth it's. We can ASSUME there are happy families out there, high functioning human beings, but we didn't see any if that. Instead we had to just take Rusts word for it that he was ok with a massive cult
Of demon worshipping pedophiles was still out there. He didn't even finish his fucking case really. I think you've let your fondness for the character cloud your ability to assess the show, strangely enough. Like you just want him to be happy, which is nice but I don't agree with it.
Yea "when I think about what she was spared, I'm greatful"
He was talking about her being "spared" life because to him existence is "a meat grinder, a thresher" that's obviously fucked up bullshit no one would ever really feel that way about the life of their child.
>He pretty much tells the officers he's glad she's gone, I can't remember the exact words now but its before he goes into that thing about "the hubris of bringing a soul out of non existence into this meat grinder, this thresher." That's obvious bullshit no one would ever be glad their kid was gone, he missed her like anyone would.
He wasn't glad she was gone. He may have been glad she didn't have to endure any potential suffering, but his point was that he made a mistake in bringing her into the world. He didn't regret the life of his daughter, he loved her. He was referring to his own hubris for thinking he had the right to create life, "The sin of being a father."
But I wasn't even reading what you replied to so maybe I'm talking out of context.