What went wrong?

What went wrong?

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Four main characters and not a coherent story between them.

It could have been quite good if it was just ray and frank. But hbo demanded a woman and a faggot.

We get what we deserve.

Literally nothing, if you don't like it you can boil your head

You know the saying you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? Well, I give my dog pig's ears to chew on and I'm wearing a pair of wife's silk panties right now, and man, they're giving me a boner. Caspere knew this.

>watches Judex once

>god tier nip director is booted from series, leaving only pizza
>pizza has run out of material to repackage/plagarize
>most dialouge is forced and cringy
>frank's dialouge is literally laughable.
>50 different story threads that deliver no payoff. Birdman/murderer was a literally who, parents were killed in front him and that was it
>faggot's story goes nowhere and he's killed off before the final episode. Would have been better off not including him to begin with
>out of nowhere mcadams becomes a love interest and does fuckall in the final 2 episodes
It was terribly rushed. Both HBO and pizza admit this. At least it gave us frankposting and mustache cuck man.

agreed, good post

critics and general audiences are too fucking stupid to understand it.

Rust's dialogue sounds believable when it's coming from one eccentric dude. It's ridiculous when everyone talks like that.

First of all, there is the obvious loss of Fukanaga, who provided the stunning visuals and atmosphere for the first season.

What this season had instead was lots and lots of talking and very little happening.
No, I'm not saying I want an explosion every thirty seconds or someone dying every scene.
I want substance, and True Detective season two failed to deliver. If Pizzolatto wanted to write another novel, he should have written another novel.
And even when there was some action, it somehow felt laughable, like the shootout.

Having four main characters meant balancing more scenes between them. That alone should have lead to well-paced plot progression, but the season still felt like it dragged on.

While Ray was a great character, and one of the few good things about this mess, the other three simply felt lacking something, most of all Vince Vaughn.

Understand what exactly?

Grimes is fucking retarded

>grimes liked it
no surprise here

greek tragedy.

way too many storylines for an 8 episode long season. And the lack of focus hurt it even more, which made the whole mess hard to follow.

nothing, its perfect

It should have just been about velcro. Would have focused it and made it easier to Pizza to come up with something original. Instead, he doubled the amount of main characters leading to a convoluted mess.

Can you offer just a couple sentences to explain how it was like a Greek tragedy? Not being facetious, just wondering the connection here.

No Fukunaga

Honestly, I shut it off almost immediately after this.

I just caught up so I don't know what everything thought about it

Was I the only one constantly put off by Ferrell's accent? It sounded like he slipped into his normal accent at times but even when he was on, it was still an odd accent. We're talking LA, and he sounded like he came out of the gruffest, cheesiest western movie ever.

It was a mess of fanboy-noir rather than lean pseudo-occult

sure. Spoilers incoming:


Each character ends up being the instruments of their own destruction due to hubris or passion with the exception of the two women who are willing to let go.

velcoro kills the wrong man who he thought raped his wife out of anger and ends up dying because he wanted to see his son again. frank is constantly haunted by his past and ends up dying because he went to get the diamonds out of greed and has hallucinations from his past while wandering in the desert. he also underestimated the mexicans.

caspere fucks his own daughter (unknowingly), his son kills his own father (unknowingly) and burns out his eyes. One of the main characters is named Antigone (Oedipus' daughter). The lounge singer fills the role of a greek chorus, obliquely commentating on the events of the show.

The only people who survive are the two women who feel and are willing to let go of their past.

There is actually a lot more as well.

>this book was nominated for an award
The sad state of modern literature.

reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/comments/3hbnrn/season_2_the_greek_tragedy_aspect_isnt_talked/

reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/comments/3de5k9/season_2spoilers_greek_tragedy_neonoir_reading/

Ah, this actually makes a lot of sense, I do wish they executed it a bit better though. Thanks for the response.

It isn't a greek tragedy. First off for a tragedy to work you have to empathize with the tragic character. Who did you empathize with? The sociopath gangster? The drunken corrupt cop? The woman that desperately wanted her daddy? She didn't die. Or the faggot that pretends he is different. Yep thats it. You latch on to the "its a greek tragedy" meme. You want to be different but in a group. You are that faggot.

Well let me disprove your theory.

Greek tragedies involve the heroes dying of hubris. But ray died trying to do a final good act as a corrupt cop. Frank died making a horrible deal when his strength was being able to see options and make deals. Fag cop died trying to save the reputation of people he didn't know and was willing to kill his lover to do it.

No matter how hard you meme it and no matter how many morons believe you, it isn't a greek tragedy. It was a poorly written show.

that's fair. I literally read Antigone by Sophocles like a week before I saw S2 of True Detective, and as soon as they said Rachael McAdams character was named Antigone I knew immediately what to look for and saw references and thematic allusions to greek tragedy everywhere.

It is better than the first season, character-wise. The four were better than the fedora-tipper Rust. Marty was great, though.

BUT first season's cinematography was absolutely gorgeous, and that one-shot sequence was amazing.
Plus the mystery was better.

Yet, I could connect better to the characters in season 2.
Plus, it gave me the push to finally become a copper.

90% of what was wrong with season 2 was the botched execution.

>Frank died making a horrible deal when his strength was being able to see options and make deals
Holy fuck you are retarded. he already made the deal and kept asking them for more, to give him a ride back to town etc when he was surrounded by the mexicans he was acting arrogant as fuck, he totally died due to hubris.

Your entire post is pure idiocy friend. Not surprised you didn't understand S2.

BUT DUDE
ANTIGONE
DUDE
GREEKS
SOME PEOPLE DIE
DEATH = TRAGEDY
DEUS EX LMAO

>But ray died trying to do a final good act as a corrupt cop
He wasn't trying to "do good" retard he just wanted to see his son again, much like Antigone dies because she kept returning to see her brothers dead body in Antigone by Sophocles

You know nothing of greek tragedies.

How to fix S2 :

- the fag cop is completely removed from the story, he adds nothing to it
- Frank is reduced to a supporting role and interacts with Ray on occasion, his subplot is mostly happening off-screen and we just get brief glimpses to what he's up to
- Ray and Ani are front and center a the main duo and their arcs are at first completely separate and then converge in the second half of the season
-Ray's arc is mostly the same
-Ani's arc is a bit more developed

Everything else is mostly the same.

Main problem is that you had 4 characters each with their own downer issues diluting the main plot

The strength of season one is that Rust and Marty essentially existed as one character and played off each other That's a tried and proven storytelling/character developing method.

When you have four main characters things are just all over the place.

>Four main characters and not a coherent story between them.
More like 3. Gay marine got forgotten in the script pretty early on and just got a few token scenes before being killed off. He ended up pretty much irrelevant to anything.

Part of the problem is that Ani's problems, which take up a good part of the storyline, are really just her problems. She has issues with sex and rape. So that means cam girls are trafficked and prostitutes are being held against their will.

But neither of those were actual problems. Neither of them gave off a sense of threat to the viewer, just to Ani. Which would work in a movie about her dealing with her issues. In True Detective, it was just off.

This. He did nothing to advance the plot, just wasted time and took up space where more important things could actually happen. And then there were the scenes with his mother, which had absolutely no payoff whatsoever.

What are you, sexist?
You want it to be like the terrible season one, where there were only MEN?
What next, you won't watch the new all female ghostbusters!?

Shut the fuck up, I hate this lazy type of humor

She was shoehorned in. Hbo demanded a woman and a faggot. That is why fag cop has absolutely no value to the story and ani is just there to remind us that rape is bad.

I see what your doing, but I didn't dislike her.

Even the show was aware of it. She "saved" her sister and her sister flipped out at her. She "saved" the one prostitute who, again, proceeded to lash out at her.

Which is all fine and well if the focus was Ani and it wasn't a "true detective" show.

I will never stop shitposting

cont

They wasted the "action" episode of the season on her saving a prostitute that didn't want to be saved. For nothing. They stole some documents, but she wasn't really necessary to that. All of the action came from her and the prostitute storyline. The prostitute storyline which was largely not an interesting crime.

Fuck you, the kid was a god warrior

But this is absolutely untrue. Ani had an inherent distrust of men. Remember when she talked to Velcoro about using her knife and killing any man who fucks with her? Then during the shootout when she has to ACTUALLY use the knife she's scared shitless? Then she ACTUALLY kills a man in the sex party and she has a look of regret and disdain about her? And then after that she gives Velcoro his redemption by telling him he's not a bad man AS WELL AS WILLINGLY ACCEPTING HIM to penetrate her, showing that she trusts men again?

TD S2 is truly too much for the average viewer good lord.

You know, it's sort of like the fall of empires. I always thought of myself as a sort of pharaoh. Deriving my powers from my gods. But you know what ray? The gods are only powerful when the slaves believe in them. And guess what, ray? Moses just parted the fucking sea.

>but she wasn't really necessary to that

That's the point. Ani has it in her head that these women want to be saved from this life when really they either don't, like her sister, or it's all they have, like the prostitute. Especially the latter part where much of those women were from foreign countries and had to fuck those rich old guys to make cash. Ani's "solution" is simply to put the broad on a train to Seattle because she doesn't know what else to do. She's imperfect, like the whole cast. There is no better solution for much of those women, but there should be because we deserve a better world.

You see, Ray, my grandmother always told me growing up that life was nothing but a series of kicks to the balls. The trick, she said, was kicking everyone else harder than they kick you. Problem is, it turns out I'm surrounded by fuckin' eunuchs.

She killed the man in the sex party because she put herself in the position to kill a man at a sex party. She didn't need to be there, but was anyway because of her issues.

Which, again, would be fine if the show were about Ani. But it wasn't, so it just stood to distract from everything else.

the queer trying to hide that he was queer. also dragging that latino woman down with him just so he can lie about being queer

fuck all that shit. there were plenty of cringe momemts in this season.
to hell with it honestly. I just pretend it never happened.


season 1 is elder God tier. this season shouldn't even be mentioned with it.

>but was anyway because of her issues.

Yes, exactly. After the party she resolves her issues.

>Which, again, would be fine if the show were about Ani. But it wasn't, so it just stood to distract from everything else.

She gives Velcoro his redemption, or did you not read that part of my post? The ONLY way she could've done that was her experience at the party.

...

I read it. You're arguing it makes sense. I'm arguing it wasn't good.

A crime drama about saving willing prostitutes who want to keep being prostitutes is one notch more interesting than a crime drama about jaywalkers.

Its pleb filtering was far too efficient.

That doesn't make the show good.

But that's retarded. Ray wasn't looking for redemption through fucking a crazy slut. He didn't even really into it. That was all ani being fucking nuts. Ani was a poorly written character that desperately needed male influence but rejected them at the same time. Classic daddy issues. We can debate how deep you think her character is all day but what is obvious is that she contributed nothing to the plot.

>I'm arguing it wasn't good.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I thought it was fantastic, the gradual breakdown of everything she believed in so she could become a better person.

>A crime drama about saving willing prostitutes who want to keep being prostitutes is one notch more interesting than a crime drama about jaywalkers.

Sure I guess?

>pizza has run out of material to repackage/plagarize

Can someone explain this shit? What the hell was he plagiarizing after all?

it's a reddit meme

>Ray wasn't looking for redemption through fucking a crazy slut

That's right he wasn't, he thought he was far gone. But he got it anyway.

>He didn't even really into it. That was all ani being fucking nuts

Are you fucking nuts? That scene where they hold hands and she tells him "you're not a bad man" was fucking POWERFUL. One of the best moments I've seen on TV. He wasn't into it, don't be fucking retarded. The smiling look on his face as he realized he was gonna go live in some country rich as fuck with Ani?

>Ani was a poorly written character that desperately needed male influence but rejected them at the same time

And she got it with Velcoro holy fuck.

>but what is obvious is that she contributed nothing to the plot.

She did trace the bank dates back to Caspere in episode 2 or 3.

>That scene where they hold hands and she tells him "you're not a bad man" was fucking POWERFUL. One of the best moments I've seen on TV.

Did we all just bite the hook?

>She did trace the bank dates back to Caspere in episode 2 or 3.

I think the b8 fell off

Nothing,i it was great

no point in ranting and raving and crying over spilled milk. this post sums it up.

>Did we all just bite the hook?

No bait here. Nice rebuttal.

>I think the b8 fell off

I don't even know what this mean's it's certainly not a rebuttal.

Too many plotlines with no pay off.

I see what you did there

i-it was g-g-g-good, youre j-just a p-pleb

>And then there were the scenes with his mother, which had absolutely no payoff whatsoever.

This always bother me about gay storyline though was there any incest subtext between him and his mother that was going to be focus on or was I looking to deep into the way she always was touching him.

Season one had one director throughout the entire season and he is very talented. Season 2 had Justin Lin and a bunch of shitty HBO directors (Powdesa, Sapochnik). Also Pizza wasn't given enough time to write the story.

He is. I don't quite see what was so hard to follow about it.

the walrus lost