How did punk get associated with "fuck the rules...

How did punk get associated with "fuck the rules?" The over-the-top get up was being actively advertised by fashion people to wear it, the music itself (or at least it's more popular less artier styles) was pretty by the books. Only some tracks like Anarchy in the UK talked of sheer chaos no rules.

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youtube.com/watch?v=xYIqBG1v8BY
youtube.com/watch?v=fOMv1CmiXoc
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The "fuck the rules" association was part of the marketing. There's a reason the really hardcore guys generally didn't refer to themselves as "punk"

What the fuck are you talking about?

The first punk scene was arguably in New York. The bands that inspired it were the New York Dolls, who inverted glam rock by dressing up like New York tranny hookers, and Suicide, who hated rock conventions and decided to replicate rockabilly with just a synthesizer, while the vocalist shrieked about suicide and violence.

The early songwriters like Richard Hell, Patti Smith, and Jim Carroll knew the Beat poets and wanted to write about poverty and drug addiction.

One of the first British bands was Crass, which was formed by an ex-hippie utopian anarchist to promote activism and art.

It's been fuck the rules since the beginning. "Fuck the rules" is why it exists.

You're right that some of it sounds conventional, which is why from the very beginning there have been offshoots that tried to take things further, like no wave and industrial.

Crass weren't one of the first British punk bands

>Being this wrong

Either way, punk is completely and utterly dead now.

Wow great rebuttal

Conservatives are the new punk deal with it xD

>The bands that inspired it were the New York Dolls, who inverted glam rock by dressing up like New York tranny hookers
This was pretty in tune with the glam rock style of the time though.

>Suicide, who hated rock conventions and decided to replicate rockabilly with just a synthesizer, while the vocalist shrieked about suicide and violence.
They hated rock convention so much that they played rock n roll but with a synth? Again, these guys were the exception, not the norm, and a kind of exception that can be found in any genre of music not just exclusive to punk.

>The early songwriters like Richard Hell, Patti Smith, and Jim Carroll knew the Beat poets and wanted to write about poverty and drug addiction.
Not really breaking the rules here. Beat generation was 50s stuff.

>One of the first British bands was Crass, which was formed by an ex-hippie utopian anarchist to promote activism and art.
They exist in a very particular subset of punk called anarcho punk, and their weird radio/tape experiments were also the exception, not the norm.

>You're right that some of it sounds conventional
A lot more of it sounds conventional. Ramones, Sex Pistols, The Clash are all the three largest bands and they flourished in the scene doing literally rock n roll revival but slightly rawer and slightly faster. Sure Ramones started messing around with cool arrangements later, Johnny Rotten went from Sex Pistols to Public Image Ltd, and The Clash started genre mixing, but that's not their lasting legacy to the genre.


>industrial
Not even sure why this is here since early industrial is electronic, musique concrete, avant garde, and krautrock influenced not punk.

You're mentally retarded, punk is as big as it's ever been. Tons of great crust punk bands in particular, like Sarabante, Jungbluth, Tragedy, Iskra, etc.

Well they're definitely more "punk" than the type of folks who associate with punk now yes

Three chord punk rock is dead, punk will never die

It's normal to be "punk", it's not fucking punk at all. It's all faggots who spend too much time on social media but wear the appropriate clothing... means nothing.

>punk is as big as it's ever been
Fucking delusional

industrial literally grew out of punk. The early industrial people were mostly involved with the punk scene, at least peripherally.

Suicide have spoken about how they were trying to destroy rock conventions. Half the New York scene was artsy, with bands like Television, the Voidoids, DNA, etc. The british scene had Alternative TV, Wire, and bands that have retroactively been labeled post-punk but were just as much part of the scene like the Pop Group. The art part of punk has always been around.

Crass wasn't part of the anarcho scene originally, because that scene started around them. They were just another punk band. Then anarchist punk kids started following them later. That's how that scene formed.

In the 60s the sexual liberation beats like Ginsberg became acceptable, but transgressive Beats like Burroughs and Gyson were considered extreme and underground.

Your idea about punk's legacy is stupid. Everything from goth to industrial to crust is part of punk's legacy. Everything "alternative" is part of punk's legacy.

You're incredibly dumb. I have to assume you're some white trash 19 year old with no friends, lamenting how the world sucks now. You should probably kill yourself. Or you know, go meet people and try to create something instead of just complaining. But you won't do that because you're a stupid faggot.

Nothing says anti establishment like supporting reactionary knee jerk corporate Christian straight white american capitalist normalcy

>t. "I'm like, so punk, dude! I even have the punk rock app on my iPhone"

Well they certainly embody the ideals of punk more than some feminist tranny limp wristed faggot who went to private school trying to ban the word "him" from dictionaries
See above

Punk is dead and people like you killed it

Punk is as real as it's ever been.

youtube.com/watch?v=EdgjKvDo924

epic dude! You're really fighting the good fight against those sjws. Do you want some reddit karma? I think you really triggered them with your masculinity. Based Sam Hyde stumps le cucks!

It's not like punk was ever leftist at all, no I've never heard of Jello Biafra or Darby Crash, nope those people don't exist...real punk is...Green Day

pol can go

>feminist
Runaways, riot grrl, etc. All existed in the 70's. Keep arguing you illiterate Sup Forums faggot, you can't name a single punk band

GG Allin would've kicked your ass. The people who whine about political correctness are always fucking nerds who submit to Chad

But I'm not American, I never said if I support Trump or not, and I don't care for "alt-right" figures and all the other buzzwords you mentioned.

You keep on being punk though, boy! Them converse and that haircut make you the ultimate punk guy! You're so punk!
>"Hey, take a picture this ones for my instagram! Punk lifestyle dude"

>Sup Forums
Eh?
Seriously is that all you faggots do when someone tells you that punk isn't wearing converse and posting an Anarchy a on your social media profile? You've got nothing, chump.
Punk is dead and people like you killed it.

Lmao sure thing with the projection there mate

>industrial literally grew out of punk.
No it didn't. Throbbing Gristle already had a record (although bootlegged) out by the time the Sex Pistols were forming and a year before all the big Euro punk bands formed. Not to mention that the industrial bands weren't even part of the London scene, they were from Northern England. So very little connection there.

>The art part of punk has always been around.
Same with every other genre of music. Avant prog has always been around, too for example. Same with experimental rock, etc. As a so called "rule breaking genre", punk didn't do it any more than they did.

>Crass wasn't part of the anarcho scene originally
Only helps make the "they are the exception" thing more apparent then, don't it?

>In the 60s the sexual liberation beats like Ginsberg became acceptable, but transgressive Beats like Burroughs and Gyson were considered extreme and underground.
Cool but by the late 60s they were already considering making a movie version of Naked Lunch with Mick fucking Jagger in it.

>Your idea about punk's legacy is stupid.
Got a little triggered?

>Everything from goth to industrial to crust is part of punk's legacy
Not really. Some of industrial influence went into goth, but industrial has always been more electronic than punk. For every post-punk industrial group, there's a ton more power electronics, EBM, death industrial, etc. out there.

Goth had its start in post-punk (musically), but became its own thing entirely, and has since broken into different areas of music/culture completely unrelated to punk.

>Everything "alternative" is part of punk's legacy.
The concept of being "alternative" has existed before and after punk with areas that haven't been influenced from punk at all. With this logic you probably think hip hop, metal, free jazz or even goddamn funk carioca are some punk, too despite note being influenced at all initially from the punk genre/culture.

>It's not like punk was ever leftist at all
It might have been, but it's not anymore

I'm not arguing that punk is somehow not dead, it's just always been leftist and anti establishment. Punk has been dead since the late 80's. It got watered down by corporations into pop punk like 20 years ago. This isn't a new discovery.

...do you know what DIY culture is?

>gutter folk punk

Your thinking only of the sex pistols..

>it's just always been leftist and anti establishment
[citation needed]

Are you seriously still that upset that Trump won?
Conservatives are the new punk because it's the popular accepted opinion to be a politically correct feminist fascist faggot -- pretty much everything is against conservatism except for Trump being elected.

It's the "norm" to be """"punk"""", well to dress like it anyway, despite acting like a fascist and banning things you don't like or things that offend you.

My grandma is more punk than you

youtube.com/watch?v=xYIqBG1v8BY
Fuck these losers.

lmao

PUNK ROCK DUDE CHECK ME BEING PUNK WHILE COVERING THIS HIP HOP POP SONG

>BEING PUNK IS ABOUT LOOKING PUNK. GET THE PUNK LOOK NOW, FOLKS.

Because somebody did a parody of it?

You do realize homeless kids are a real thing, right? How fucking stupid are you?

>Got a little triggered?
not the other guy, an you're largely right with this post, but fuck off this this overused meme non-argument.

None of those wastrels in that street band are the kind of godawful tragic cases you're talking about though.

Real punk:

I literally just said "homeless kids". I didn't describe anything. You're projecting.

>user jokingly responds to a non-argument bit with a non-argument
>takes it seriously without paying attention to the rest of the post
whoosh

youtube.com/watch?v=fOMv1CmiXoc
>punk will never be this edgy again
;-;

was that a link to the beastiality thread?

>Conservatives are the new punk

U fukkin wot. Have you listened to a punk record? Dead Kennedys was left as fuck. Bad Brains was banned in D.C. Black Flag got so destructive that cops staked out SST.

In more modern times, Jeff Rosenstock sang about being broke, police abuse and gentrification in WORRY. Taxpayers sang about the same shit.

Soak your fucking head.

>t. butthurt limp-wristed liberal
times change faggot
>yfw realise that the "punk" you're thinking of is literally all privately educated upper middle class folks who benefited from nepotism
as i said, times change.

conservatives are the new punk now

>>t. butthurt limp-wristed liberal
Good job assuming I got limp wrists, you cum bucket.

>>yfw realise that the "punk" you're thinking of is literally all privately educated upper middle class folks who benefited from nepotism

I literally just described musicians who sing about being broke and are being forced out of their cities by the very people you describe. Fuck, Fugazi's "Cashout" was about being forced out by rich developers, and that was 2001.

Contain =/= Punk.

*contrain

>Punk is dead and people like you killed it
>Implying punk was something worth saving to begin with

Face it faggot... you're not punk and never will be.
You're part of the fascist leftist retard group think that believe wearing converse and dyeing their hair makes them punk rock.

Well it was. I believe certain ideals of "punk" were spot on before they were misconstrued by media and bandwagoners.

>Well it was. I believe certain ideals of "punk" were spot on before they were misconstrued by media and bandwagoners.
A few good ideas came out of punk; the idea of non-conformity and post punk as a genre of music. Many bands along with record company executives were just trying to cash in on a growing trend when punk music became popular. And young people interpreted the idea of non-conformity as nihilism and anarchy. And what became of that? Drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Because, surely vomiting all over yourself and not being able to function as a human being without the use of synthetic drugs is so punk. I'm still thankful for post punk bands though, because they did something with the music, rather than returning in back to its infancy.

>wearing converse and dying hair.

I have never dyed my hair, nor do I wear Converse. Punk comes from inside, your heart and head. I don't need to shave the sides of my head and wear studs to fit in, because punks are someone who don't need a uniform. The music is an expression of what they feel and go through. Everything from the political frustration of Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables, to the PMA of Bad Brains, to the modern nervousness of The Dream is Over.

Of course, idiots like you hear three cords and screaming. You don't listen. You think Punk is some contrain thing and that going against the grain of the time is punk? No. It's a fundamental understanding that freedom to do what you want is something that can't be hindered. Heart over Matter, PMA, the core belief has many names, but remains the same.

Conservatism has no place in this. Neither do you.

SURE THING YOU VEGAN FANNY
I BET YOU'VE GOT THE PUNK ROCK APP ON YOUR IPHONE

When did punk go from "cool rebels" to praising neoliberalism and Obama and establishment identity politics? That's not fucking punk it's fucking gay,.

Punk was always about "fuck the rules?" but the rules change and so does punk. Punk's main idea was D.I.Y, carving out your own path no matter how bad or crazy it may be. That is why ridiculous hair, safety pin piercings, torn clothes, binbag fashion etc was all part of the punk look. As soon as that became a uniform it started not being punk. Punk music was all about not going to music school, barely playing three chords and yelling your non-mainstream, confrontational views. As soon as musicians started to get good and put out more polished product it ceased to be punk and drifted in to post-punk.

Now punk is a brand and every little prick is trying to co-opt it for their own mainstream political stance. It's not inherently left or right and it should embody the creative D.I.Y ideals, not dress in a 30 year old uniform.

Reminder US Hardcore Punk > UK Posers Punk

>YANKS
>PUNK
I DON'T THINK SO

>Three chord punk rock is dead
never

Fuck off milo

This is punk

>I'm a part of what some people call the "alt-right" and it feels punk as fuck. It feels like an actual counter culture, or rebellion against the PC culture that dominates American colleges.

>reddit

I actually had eggs and turkey bacon for breakfast.

Plus, I don't own an iPhone.

You want to try again?

You would download it if you did tho

While that quote is deepest cringe, it's not wrong.

No one was a closeted Hilary supporter. But there were many closeted Trump supporters, from the average Joe all the way to Tom Brady. It is a stigma to be conservative in this day and age, hence, it feels more rebellious since the status quo is leftist.

My daddy was punk as fuck one time and so was my grandpa. (Great grandpa was a hippy and I was told but some of my relations that my great great grand daddy was a beatnik!)

Think you are mixing up being punk and being gay. The gays were closeted not the punks.

No, I wouldn't have either an iPhone or the app. I'm happy enough with Bandcamp and Phonograph.

How about creating a substantial argument of what punk is, rather than projecting what you think is a suitable strawman?

How about you stop pretending you fucking poser
You're about as punk as Katy Perry

People are punks because they are proud to be different you mong. They go AGAINST the status quo, LOUDLY.

You could say the alt-right is doing the same thing.

When the media and social media are both demonizing you for not being progressive enough, then logic dictates that refusing to do so, LOUDLY, is a punk mentality whether it agrees with your politics or not.

Threads like this make me pine for the days of Nationalist Skinheads.

Left-wingers are fucking scum.

And how am I a poser? I'm dying to know.

My pet goldfish embodies the ideals and spirit of punk more than you do, you fucking maggot.

Away with you, shoo doggy!

The left that the people who actually know and listen to punk in this thread is referring to Marxism you dense daft alt-right idiot, They are not talking about idiot liberals so all the new fascistic babies in this thread needs to shut up and get that right first. I seriously do not understand how you guys are so butt hurt over 90% of actual punk being far leftist (Marxist).

Grow up, and if you’re that hell bent on being punk just listen to the small percentage of Nazi punk that panders to degenerate fucks like yourself and just don’t bother listening to the actual thing that didn’t promote being overly macho and wearing stupid shit because you’ll just end up infuriating yourself more then you are

Conservatism and reactionarism are not the same.

>over 90% of actual punk being far leftist (Marxist).
[citation needed]

are you fucking kidding me ? how the hell can you be this dense

why don’t you name the "majority" that isnt commies?

Well I wasn't the one talking about closeted alt-right fags, you mong.

Hiding out on Sup Forums and bullying the supposed nu-males doesn't sound like a punk movement to me. Especially with all the paranoid talk of demonization, it really just makes the alt-right sound like a bunch of cowardly worthless fucks who only creation and contribution is photoshopping pepe memes. But I suppose if you type LOUDLY now and then then you can almost begin to feel like you are a punk standing out from the crowd. The crowd that makes up 50% of the population that was willing to vote. Good job being radical counter cultural and achieving something.

hahhahahaahahhahaa
>pic related
Post something to backup for claim or don't post at all faggot

Everyone is equal there is no such thing as a master race, Being religious in 2017 just shows how backwards and stupid you are.

>Everyone is equal
I know this is bait but there are people that genuinely believe this

>kek there's still people who don't believe it

Punk is anti-establishment

The liberals run the establishment

What is the argument, again?

So has evolution stopped then? or not?

Nice bait/10

Wasn't being straight-edge a big thing inside the punk movement?

wrong on both

Nice argument, kid. You really showed him.

Propagandhi, Anti-Flag, The Clash, Dead Kennedys, Subhumans, The Unseen, The Pinkerton Thugs, Leftover Crack, Choking Victim, No-Cash, Star Fucking Hipsters, The Broadways, Strike Anywhere, Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, A//Political, Disrupt, DooM, Conflict, Reagan Youth, Intifada, Evil Empire, Officer Down, INDK, The Public Serpents, Fifteen, Angelic Upstarts, Red London, Hudson Falcons, The Oppressed, The Infested, Atrocity Solution, Beng Beng Cocktail, Ramshackle Glory, Wingnut Dishwashers Union, Johnny Hobo and The Freight Trains, Ghost Mice, Acoustic Front of Resistence, Aus-Rotten, Behind Enemy Lines, MDC, Severed Heads of State, Class War Kids, Good Riddance,The Fall,Gang of Four, Bikini kill,Sleaford Mods, Lovechild, Alternative TV, Bad Brains, No Trend, Flippers, Minutemen, Hot Snakes, Fugazi, Hot Snakes, My dead is dad, A Frames, Huskur Du, James Chance and The Contortionist, BAZOOKA, Catastrophe Bizarre, The Raincoats, Pere Ubu, World Domination Enterprises, Au Pairs, Savage Republic, LIZZARD, The Nation of Ulysses, Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, Antagonist Fist, Cro-Mag

That just few now pray to Jesus and go to bed kid

Oh, you're just trolling now. Have one last (You).

Post a source, any at all, showing proof that 90 percent of punk bands are left wing. Good luck with that.

Posting random bands isn't proving your point, son. Do you know how statistics work?

It wasn't bait. You're a genuine faggot.

The problem is that these dense fucks think its liberal and not Marxist

This is why I like hardcore, same music but with none of this cuckold Marxist circlejerk

Pick any band from the list and listen to the lyrics and you’ll find out really fast that they are all Marxists

This just goes to show that you know nothing about punk music and that you don’t listen to it at all, you just want a cool label to go along with you’re alt-fascist tag. Now please go back to Sup Forums and leave the music to the Sup Forumstans kid.

Finally one of you alt-right idiots get something right.

You guys should properly name you’re threads and make punk threads if you don’t want to attract Marxists

thread name suggestions.
Nazi Hardcore Punk
Alt-right jackass punk

I hope you enjoy the little amount of nazi punk bands you have out there

Post source of don't post at all.

The reason you haven't posted a source? Because you cant. You were bullshitting and just expected people to listen to you. That's how retarded you are.

I've never even browsed Sup Forums but you fags always resort to the same "go back to pol!!!" whenever you're getting blown the fuck out

>ALL PUNK BANDS ARE LEFTIST BECUASE I'M LEFTIST AND I SAID SO
Lol, try harder next time man.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahahaha

The source is their lyrics and how blatantly open they are about it and the countless anti fascist lines they use, either hardcore committed to being a troll or I am just arguing with a 12 year old that somehow has not come across any of the biggest names in punk music and don’t know what they are so openly about.

Hope Jesus forgives you for being a racist cunt you backwards ass dense retard.

>I HATE THE GOVERNMENT, OPPRESSION AND STABLISHMENT
>LETS ADVOCATE IN OUR SONG A IDEOLOGY WHERE IT DESCRIBE THAT SOCIETY SHOULD GO TO A PLACE WHERE EVERYTHING IS DIVIDED BY STATE BUREAUCRATS BEFORE REACHING UTOPIA AND KILLING EVERYONE THAT GETS IN OUR WAY.


Either you don't know what marxism is, or punks were mostly retarded, I think the term you are trying touse here is "anarchist" of tge socialist kind that came from people like Bakunin, but Marx mocked Bakunin, and Bakunin hated Marx's guts. They are two different ideologies, they are just reaching on to the same goal and are far-left.

Guys, stop responding to him. He's just a spillover from Sup Forums that's trying to get (You)s.

Just bash your head to a My War and move the fuck on.

>Thinks Bolshevism is Marxism
>Does not know the difference between the two
>Does not realize the most relevant and wide spread form of Anarchism is Anarcho communism
>Throws a bitch fit again because he saw the word "communism' and relates it to Bolshevism

Now I know for sure you’re just a white trash dumb ass posting out of you’re trailer park,Ever hears of famous Anarchist like Alexander Beckman ,Emma Goldmen and the lot they Wrote entire godamn books about this.

I legit feel bad for how uneducated you are here read some of these and come back.

>>Does not realize the most relevant and wide spread form of Anarchism is Anarcho communism

Too bad Anarchism that works in the American sound is Mutualism and more Individualistic Anarchism.

I don't disagree with you, but after hearing Rollins and a lot of other American Punk Rock musicians, there is a shocking amount of Anarcho-Individualism. It makes sense considering how individualistic Americans truly are.

But there are some Commies who play, that's no secret.

>their
You said 90 percent
I'm still waiting on that source faggot
SeeThat's Sid Vicious by the way.

>Hope Jesus forgives you for being a racist cunt you backwards ass dense retard.
Hahaha, you literally have nothing do you?
All you can do is post ad hominem and scream muh rayciss.

Samefag

>Now I know for sure you’re just a white trash dumb ass posting out of you’re trailer par
Implying he was me and stop projecting
You're just mad that you're not a punk, you're a square sucking on the teet of the establishment

Conservatives are the new punk.
Leftists are becoming increasingly fascistic.
Stay mad

>posts actual sources
>completely ignored

I'm not even sure if you are trolling, or just that stupid and stubborn to not recognize reliable information when it's in front of you

Post sources then. You've posting no source, you fucking pleb.
All you did was list a bunch of band names as if that's in any way relevant to proving that 90 percent of punk is leftist (as you claimed)

You can't post the source because you're full of shit and mad that you're a square, as I said.

Keep trying to get the word "him" banned bro! That'll show em how punk you are!

>people who whine
>fucking nerds who submit to Chad

Trump is the biggest fucking Chad, seems legit

t. triggered lefty Tumblr punx

pic related, you

>how to spot underage minors