Is Cersei objectively a good player of the game?
Yes she caused a nice explosion and can tell people to kill other people but she is now getting too much credit by some viewers for being a great player.
While what she did shows great determination and desperation she basically wins with spite and the power of her name.
Of course she's not a great player, she's a psychotic bitch and can temporarily get her way by being totally ruthless but is a poor planner.
shes good at playing the game shes playing. Unfortunately its not the game everyone is talking about.
Of course she isn't.
Basically every other character left alive has their name in the list of her potential murderers. She is a sitting duck; one who isn't above being brutally ruthless in order to survive, but she won't manage to blow up literally every other main character
>While what she did shows great determination and desperation she basically wins with spite and the power of her name.
So?
FUCK OFF
no. the only people she ever loved are her brother, who she has pushed away, and her children, all of whom are dead with one of those deaths being the direct result of something she did to clean up another mess of her own doing (arming the faith militant).
nah
she makes her decisions based on short-term considerations
emotion over strategy
ie. killing the tyrells and thus casting off their giant army because why?
she easily could have had her murderkids kill the high sparrow and his soldiers in the middle of the night - thereby retaining her child and a fairly legitimate claim to the throne, plus the protection of the tyrell army
>but muh emotions
I wonder what her follow up plan was if Tommen hadn't killed himself. I mean, he did love Margery and he was quite fond of the high sparrow. Surely as king he couldn't have possibly let her go unpunished for murdering his wife, hundreds of people and destroying the oldest religious monument in King's Landing.
People who say she isn't are biased fantards not worthy of listening to.
They easily accept Jon, Dany, Sansa, Arya etc... making the worst of the worst decisions on a constant basis and getting by on pure luck alone. Hell, one of them even died and came back just to take a casual stroll through a hailstorm of arrows without as much of a scratch.
Cersei is someone who knows that there in fact is a game to be played and has known so from the start. While Cersei also makes mistakes, they are far fewer in number and her planning makes up for it.
she's the only one actually playing the game properly
She is playing the game just like Maegor the Cruel and Aegon II before here. They both left a wake of corpses behind them and both were killed after their 'kind of' victories. She's nothing special, its been done before and done better.
Those 4 characters you mention have been the most bitched about by far on this board.
Well, "winning" at the game would ideally mean to have a long reign and your children will inherit the throne. Cercei lost everything, has no military power, has no more allies and no heirs.
poor strawman youve built there
>no one ever lauds any of the 4 you mentioned as intelligent in their actions
>While Cersei also makes mistakes, they are far fewer in number and her planning makes up for it.
What WAS her plan though following the destruction she caused? Tommen would have probably put her to death for the murder of his wife and hundreds of innocent people, or at the very least exiled her. She never planned for Tommen to die, so she never had any plan to get out of that whole situation as the winner.
cersei is quite obviously insane
were you expecting rational behavior from a woman, let alone an insane woman
Her plan was for him to live you knuckle head. That's why she had Sir Clegor block him from going to the boom boom party.
Timmonen has proven to be easily manipulated...1st by Cersi, then Margerie and then the High Sparrow. She would just go and manipulate him again with the others dead.
you expect rational behavior from a woman?
Virgin detected.
you mean married man
>only such could know the depths of female insanity
No, she doesn't understand soft power at all.
She doesn't show herself to be able to know that it's best to be equal parts loved and feared but never hated. At least by your own ally.
She has a problem seeing things from other peoples point of view.
I know her plan was for him to live, but there is no way a king could just ignore the murder of hundreds of innocent people, including his own wife and his father and brother in law. Cercei wouldn't be able to manipulate him after something like that and just talk her way out of it.
And even if she somehow managed to do that, they just lost the Tyrell's. Everyone in King's Landing would be revolting, there is no army to keep the order, which was the whole point of her arming the faith to begin with.
so true..marriage no. 2 to be exact
It's interesting how she obviously planned to prevent Tommen from heading to the Sept of Baelor, but she didn't actually join him in his chambers (or force Robert Strong to bring him to her chambers).
I can't tell if that was a purposeful move, or a lack of oversight; I think both are believable on her character's part.
not really. her only real victories are against people who don't really try to scheme to get ahead like ned and the sparrows.
Tyrion, Twin, granny Tyrell, Varys, and Littlefinger could all easily take her down and the only reason why she's ever made it this far is because she's had their help.
Now, Qyburn and zombie mountain kept her afloat this season, but there's only so much that can be done. She now has the Tyrells, Dorne, the common people, the Dany army coming after her which also includes some Iron Born. The north isn't exactly against her right now, but they aren't with her either. The north and the vale. And with the Freys dead, the Tully army (assuming they didn't get slaughtered when Edmure got recaptured)
Basically, she's got the biggest target on her back right now and almost no friends unless Jaime STILL wants to defend her for whatever reason. Even then, there's not much he can do.
but the alternative was a death sentence from the high sparrow. he was never going to let her live with the chance that she could reclaim control of her son.
name one noteworthy plan tyrion has enacted
The only thing i know is that her outfit in ep 10 made my dick diamonds
whoa whoa whoa..the sparrows didn't scheme? you must be voting for trump also with that level of intelligence.
I don't think she realized he would kill himself.
She's terrible at it. The only reason she's lasted this long is because the actually skilled players considered her largely harmless or even beneficial to their long-term plans, of which she is entirely ignorant. Littlefinger especially enjoyed watching her stumble from one folly to the next.
She's so brainless she never once figured out Littlefinger was a major player. Varys did, even if he was ignorant to the extent which Littlefinger had manipulated events he knew enough to steer clear of him. Meanwhile Cersei hands him titles and authority and lets him do whatever he wants, believing him beneath her notice.
She has so many foibles that make her incapable of playing the game properly. First is her belief that only the high nobility matter and everybody else is irrelevant. That's why she never bothered looking closely at Littlefinger or Varys, and why she casually allowed the Faith to re-militarize. Second is her actions are motivated too strongly by her personal feelings, she refuses alliances or aid that would be beneficial solely because she hates the people offering her help, and similar to this is that she is far too motivated by spite. She undermines her own power just to injure her enemies or rid herself of them.
She's also incredibly short-sighted, making decisions based on her immediate situation and feelings with no regard for how this will impact the future.
I could go on.
It comes back to Maggy the Frog's prophecy, which she had fully believed in after Myrcella's death. I know Jamie tried to talk her out of it, but was she really convinced?
That's why I see it going both ways: either she accepted the prophecy and didn't bother to be there for Tommen, or she really didn't expect him to kill himself.
She's basically a complete hedonist.
What she wants is all that matters, she doesn't take into account long-term planning.
Short term reward for ruthless behaviour.
Margaery and Olena are true players of the game, along with Varys and Littlefinger.
Cersei was wrong in season 1.
When you play the game of thrones, you win, and you die.
This.
She's the stereotypical /r9k/ archetype of the hateful woman made flesh.
Except in the show she's just competent enough to have kept Qyburn alongside and on the payroll by green-lighting his experiments.
The mere fact she was forced into that position proves she's not a good player.
She's on the iron throne. So....
which means she has about 15 minutes left
Cersei has a form of low cunning and when cornered can prove deadly. For other amateurs she's extremely dangerous because of her willingness to cut off her nose to spite her face, there's no telling what depths she will sink to to destroy her enemies or preserve herself.
But the thing about Cersei is that she's utterly predictable. All you have to do to avoid that danger is avoid her notice and avoid being near her. Notice both Littlefinger and Varys are gone from Kings Landing, have been for some time. They know she's entering collateral damage mode, so they just go elsewhere, they don't have to be in KL to manipulate her at this point.
The last 4 people to sit the iron throne got murdered /suicided and their lineage wiped out. Shit aint worth it.
Barren Queen Cersei has no heirs, no lineage, no beliefs, and no goals.
But she gets to sit on an ugly chair and give orders to people for a while, and maybe that's all she's able to want
>STILL wanting that shitty throne
Just fuck my house up senpai.
battle of the blackwater
he enacted the entire battle?
It's all she has left.
Wouldn't be surprised if she tries to throw Jamie in a black cell at this point.
So was Tommen, he didn't really have a lot of power. Cersei's fixation on King's Landing and the Iron Throne are another reason why she's a low tier player. She has this idea that if she leaves King's Landing she won't be relevant, she's focused all her attention and power into King's Landing and as a result she has virtually no power outside the city. She's so tunnel visioned on the Iron Throne she's forgotten it's a symbol for ruling the entirety of the Seven Kingdoms.
As a metaphor, Cersei is that one player in a Risk game who abandons all attempts at fortifying their various holdings to try and take Australia. The other players just throw a couple men on the spots she's trying to conquer now and then to keep her occupied while they snatch up swathes of territory for themselves. Then finally Cersei successfully conquers Australia after a streak of lucky rolls, and is satisfied with herself until she noticed two other players have amassed very large armies on the border of Siam.
yes
Well yes. The wildfire and the chain were both his ideas.
It was his strategy that saved kings landing from stannis
Yeah, his plans fucked Stannis's invasion hard. He was the one who commanded the sea wall be extended, commanded the construction of the boom chain, and production of wildfire to destroy the fleet. He personally saw to the training of the men who would be firing wildfire from the ramparts even.
As if that wasn't enough, he personally led a sally to defend the gates to try and hold out so reinforcements could arrive. Tyrion is like 90% of the reason King's Landing didn't fall to Stannis.
did he make the wildfire?
no?
didn't think so.
fuck that meme midget
Her actions always make sure that she ends up in terrible situations with no positive outcome for her or anyone else.
Her one good quality is that while having a gun pointed towards her head, she knows how to get out of the situation. (Ned Stark telling her to leave KL before he tells Robert, the trial etc. etc.)
Nobody plays the game better than this man.
>came from nothing
>climbed way to top while staying under radar
>nobody wants him dead
Circei plays the game well but she created too many enemies. She ruthless and cunning but in an evil tyrant sort of way. Baelish is ruthless and cunning in very sneaky way. Before anyone realizes whats going on he'll reach the top without anyone even knowing the things he did to get there.
The wildfire was Cersei's idea and he merely improved it.
**forgot pic
>cucked by TWO redhaired rivercunts
Lmaoing desu
The game of thrones is played with whispers and pretty little favors.
Cersei plays with hammers and ugly little threats.
>the wildfire was the mad king's idea
No.
She failed in her goals of protecting her children.
Was stripped of her power and humiliated on a public stage.
Her means of taking back that power weakened the Kingdom.
Now she's in a precarious throne, still probably despised by the people and has a massive target on her back.
Just because she's on the Iron Throne doesn't mean she's a good player of the game.
The story is predictable enough that Sansa will be his downfall in one form or another.
Thats true but he is still the best to play the game. Every other person who is in power right now was lucky enough to be born in a special position. If the writers kept things interesting the series would end with him in a position of power. Hes too smart to do something stupid and put himself in danger but most likely the shit writers will have him do something stupid for no reason
Who knows. He always ends up with a backup plan. If i were him i would just say fuck it to Sansa and the north. Dany is on her way and he has control of House Arryn. They both want the Iron Throne and with his army and her claim it could be a very smart marriage.
the littlefinger character on the show has been flanderized pretty bad by the hamfisted writers
never get any first person book narrative of littlefinger in the books (like varys) so we never really know what they are thinking/feeling/scheming
littlefinger is made out to be one of the shrewdest players on the board in the books, but that doesnt come across as well on the show, imo
She's basically an angry baby who couldn't figure out the game so she smashed the board
Stop politicking, dipshit.
She's riding on daddy's slipstream and is rapidly running out.
Thats the problem. He took out Jon Arryn, Joffery, and Lyza. Has full control of the Vale and was responsible for setting alot of events in motion. Yet i have a good feeling hes gonna be taken out in a stupid way because the writers dont know what to do with him.
>he actually thinks Dany would even consider marrying or allying with Littlecuck
Not only will her Hand not approve of it she would have no need since she could literally burn Littlecuck alive and the Vale wouldnt do shit.
Shame hes going to burn in harrenhall from dragons.
>its a jon x dany fag
Ok
he has the eyrie, why would he got back to a cursed, half ruined castle?
but yeah, if he ends up there while there are dragons in westeros, prepare for the barbeque
Literally what in my post points to that.
Just seems like pottery. The eyrie gonna burn too obviously. Thye think they are untouchable and dragons give no fucks. I just see him returning to court and taking up residence in his actual lands/lordship and biting off more than he can chew for his death.
>what points to that
I dunno. Just a feeling i have and im probably right
Imagine being the guy tasked with placing those candles. You'd think the fumes those leaky barrels gave off would be ignitable too. One wrong blow of the wind and the candle flame tickles the substance.
Well all the great Houses are against her now
so no
Nah, CIA is screwed. Since there are 13-15 episodes left, there is no screen time left for his fuckery. From now on, shit's gonna be very predictable probably.
Seems stupid to me. Hes seems too smart to do something stupid. He has always covered his tracks and except for maybe Sansa and Royce he has no real enemies. The writers can do whatever stupid shit they want but it seems like hes in a very safe position right now
This, ironically Ned is beating all of these motherfuckers from beyond the grave because his legacy lives on.
Jonsa is the OTP. Littlecuck will always and forever be eternally cucked.
I agree. Its really stupid and i hope the writers are smarter than that but his days are probably numbered. I was hoping the show would keep things a little more interesting and different but they will prolly just have an ending the fans will love.
>jonsa
Yea im predicting stupid fan service bs like that too
>Sansa Stark/Bolton/Lannister
>babbys first assassin
>his """""bastard"""""
>a cripple whos about to doom Westeros
Some legacy.
Fanservice would be DanyxJon, every normie wants that.
>came from nothing
Nobility is not "nothing," even if he's an extremely minor lord who rules nothing but rocks and sheep he's still a lord. That affords him a lot.
>climbed way to top while staying under radar
He stopped well short of the top, the top is a dangerous place to be at cause there's not enough room for everybody that wants to be up there. He stayed comfortably below the top and gives the ladder a shake every now and then to topple people above him. He's arguably more powerful where he is than if he was sitting at the top.
>nobody wants him dead
Correction: nobody wants him dead badly enough to actually try to kill him. Plenty of people would rather he were dead, but they lack the means or necessary motivation to try and make it happen. For example, Lord Royce of the Vale would be exceedingly happy if Littlefinger were to die suddenly in a hunting accident.
For the most part though you're right, he did climb up considerably from where he started and managed to secure a place of influence that was sufficiently lacking in glory so as to keep him inconspicuous. He's been very careful to cultivate the image of an irrelevant flea, hopping from one powerful host to the next, serving whoever will protect him and provide for him, so the great lords pay him no heed.
>Ned is beating all these motherfuckers
>Half his kids are dead
>The surviving ones lead miserable lives mostly diametric to the philosophy he lead his life by
>Their major accomplishments are barely regaining the position they lost upon Ned's death.
Yeah he's really cleaning up.
She's his aunt, aren't normies supposed to be turned off by that kind of shit?
...
She was always doomed by the one thing she wanted most: to live up to Tywin's ambitions. Funny because he planned them for Jaime and in the end Tyrion will fulfill them.
She always wanted to be the brilliant ruthless leader but was too drunk and bitter about her hubby not loving her to rise to it. Jaime never cared, he wanted Cersei and for the kingdom to be peaceful. Tyrion never even noticed he was becoming just like his father but with a sense of morality.
Tywin was never evil. That's just a matter of perspective. He was just willing to do unpopular and messy things to achieve his goals. Even Elia and her kids being killed weren't at his command. He just took advantage of it.
>implying Showfags realize theyre related
This Showfags are dumb as fuck, they still don't get who Jon's father is supposed to be.
The ones I watch with immediately realized this, they were disgusted by the idea of them getting together when they were trying to guess who Dany would get with as a political marriage and Jon was pretty much the only character of worth in Westeros.
Well yea i put in another post that MAYBE only Sansa and Royce are the only two that may want him dead. Sure other people may be happy to see him gone but the same could be said about most character. When i say he came from nothing and climbed his way to the top im just speaking in context of whwre he started and where he is. Ultimately i just want the story to go somewhere unpredictable but logical. Something nobody expects but wont say its bs if it happens. I think Baelish ending up somewhere in power would be great for the story instead of the cliche fan favorite good guys doing it. In any other story i would just assume he was gonna "get his" in the end but GoT did pull of the red wedding and i hope they havent fallen so far from that kind of scenario
Pretty much. If Tywin could have a son that had Jaime's good looks and fighting skill, Tyrion's brains and Cercei's ambition, he'd be the perfect successor. Unfortunately, Jaime has no ambition, Cercei has no brains, and he treated Tyrion like shit because he's a dwarf and because his waifu died because of him.
>god tier players
>Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin
>great tier
>Doran, Euron, Tyrion, Roose
>good tier
>Walder, Olenna, JonCon
>meh tier
>Margaery, High Septon
>shit tier
>Balon, Catelyn, Ramsay
>full retard tier
>Daenerys, Cersei, Robb, Jon Snow
I've long thought that Littlefinger's end game is a reorganization of power in Westeros that makes the old houses irrelevant. If you look at how Littlefinger wields power, he's nothing like the great lords of the realm. He doesn't rely on the prestige of his house (which is only 3 generations old, and unknown to nearly everyone), he has no ancient birthright or claims upon any land or title, he has no oaths of fealty or ancient loyalties to draw upon. What he has is money, contracts with individuals, and ownership of property. He's basically a proto-capitalist.
If I were him, and the realm were in total chaos to the extent that old loyalties and prestige didn't matter, it'd be an ideal time to bind powerful people to a new form of contract based on wealth and property rather than honor and fealty. If not for the whole Fire and Ice plot behind him I would think he'd have the lords of Westeros renting their castles from him by the end of things, but he's probably gonna die eaten by an ice spider or something.
Saying she is a good player of the game is like saying an exterminator who only uses cannons is good at his job.
>she's undefeated at chess
>true enough, whenever she's about to lose she upends the table and has her opponent executed
I agree with this list. Everyone you placed in full retard tier put themselves in shitty positions and have to rely on the intelligence of others to fix everything.
She's a pawn who thinks she's a player
t. Littlefinger
Chess with Tyrion:
>keeps serving you wine and telling you amusing anecdotes that have you in stitches
>you don't notice that a couple times when he reached to fill your cup he switches some pieces on the board
>you wonder how you lost but you can't remember the game very well
Chess with Varys:
>he doesn't play with you, but sets you up against somebody else and gives you advice on how to play
>it all sounds perfectly logical at the time but somehow you end up in checkmate
>still, you thank Varys for all his help anyway
Chess with Littlefinger:
>he throws the game and then collects a large wager he made on you and uses the winnings to buy your debt so he can blackmail you later
Chess with Tywin:
>on either side of you are two very large, muscular gentlemen who occasionally crack their knuckles and roll their shoulders
>Tywin stares at you unblinkingly the entire time, he doesn't even look at the board when moving his pieces
>you forfeit in 5 turns
She is an emotional retard with plot armor. She'll get her comeuponce and be knocked down a peg but d&d are too pussy to ever kill her.