Lest we forget

Lest we forget.

>Rush
>good

>Poison
>bad

Fuck off pleb

i'm actually more disappointed by him dissing joy division and the smiths

I hear this guy hates Prog Rock.
Is that true?

certainly hope it is because prog sucks
i know he generaly hates metal and jazz fusion, not sure about the rest

>i know he generaly hates metal and jazz fusion
>he hates jazz fusion

....I need to check something.

Huh he hates everything I like. I must be a massive pleb.

THAT'S IT??
That's all the fucking Herbie he reviewed?

That's hardly anything!

he liked punk, and when hip hop came along he loved it

all nicki minaj records are As to him

this is simply an old man who wants to be hip like the cool kids by listening to the "transgressive" music of said time

he's simply an old man who doesn't like pretentious douchebags

>obnoxious Randian fantasies for fedora-wearing neckbeards versus a catchy, well-crafted pop rock album

but he is one

are you unaware that by doing what he does he's behaving in the same way

how so, explain please?

NYC was the cradle of punk and hip-hop, that's probably why he liked them. Most New Yorkers are like that. They don't realize that a world exists west of the Hudson River.

Overly-ideological primitivism is just as pretentious as overly-ideological sophistication when it comes to music.

he's a post-modern faggot

i think you are making a grave error by implying prog is sophisticated music

he thinks that self aware or ironic vulgar music is more "honest" than any music that tries to take itself seriously by being just a bit ambitious

Yes. Christgau was pretty much shaped by mid-20th century postmodernism and he believes that metal and prog are retrogressive forms of music that pull us backward into Wagnerian drama that rock-and-roll was there to do away with.

examples please?
what is in your perception ambitious and serious music?

I didn't mean to say that, but proggers fancy themselves sophisticated

He's a guy with a clearly defined taste. Why is Sup Forums so upset about that?

in other words, he's a nu-male

i don't have to, he said it himself by talking about art and progressive rock, heavy metal etc. it doesnt matter what i believe is polished music, because these are the genres he judges to be like that

oh my god, that is simply so accurate

he's the guy that ditched erudite music for jazz, then rock for punk, and now hip-hop

quite forward thinking eh? lmao

i'm not upset about it, that's what i like most about christgau
i may not always agree with his judgement on certain albums, but he's not a phony trying to make himself appear omniscient like some of the guys on this board who are clearly jerking off while listening to pretentious shit like hail to the thief

Having a sense of humor is important to him, to this end, although he normally dislikes metal, he was ok with Van Halen and Motorhead because they had funny songs. He also gave Reign In Blood a B+ because he got a kick out of it.

On the other hand, stuff like Metallica's TBA are pretty much everything he dislikes in music.

he has made exceptions regarding albums in every genre he dislikes, especially art rock

i really hope we stop using "progressive" catchphrase soon, it's such a misnomer

If anything, he's at least consistent in the sense that he doesn't give black artists a pass solely because they're black. There's a lot of hip-hop like Ice Cube he disliked for being misogynistic and not funny enough. Most Millenial P4k critics will eat up any shit a rapper puts out because they're afraid to call them out.

he probably thinks that rap is ironic, it isn't

from the review of TPAB
>It's a strong, brave, effective bid to reinstate hip-hop as black America's CNN...

Metal and prog were born in Europe, the land of Beethoven and Wager. It shouldn't be surprising that they incorporated classical music traditions into rock.

>he's at least consistent in the sense that he doesn't give black artists a pass solely because they're black
you must be joking right, because thats exactly what he does

>incorporated classical music traditions into rock
i'm baffled by anyone who doesnt think these two are disjunctive entities better left alone

i must apologize, but i am a funny guy
i really like it when people provide evidence for the claims they make

when I said it I meant more like nicki minaj and young thug, not kendrick or actually good rappers

There's a ton of black artists that he's trashed including a few sacred cows like Tupac.

there you go but then i don't like spoonfeeding, so just go to his not-since-the-90s-updated website and simply research any mainstream hippity hoppity album from the 2010s

he also gave tlop an A- and it fucking sucks, only a handful of good tracks

probably because he took himself just a bit seriously, unlike those nicki minaj bangers

xgau is literally post-irony before it became a thing

as for nicki minaj it may be true that he simply finds her funny

but jesus, thugger is one of the best modern rappers, lol

AFAIK Christgau wrote a column about this once. He said that because rock was born out of America's roots music like blues and country, Europeans could not properly figure out how it's supposed to work and instead they merely incorporated their own indigenous music traditions. In that sense, it's true because a lot of prog bands like Genesis did utilize folk music from the British Isles.

I'm not really a big young thug fan, but I guess you do have a point there.

Actually I think he just didn't get Pac's Los Angeles background. He did like Biggie because New Yaaaawwwk.

He never really did like most California hippie artists either for same reason, he didn't "get" the whole culture they were rooted in.

so by both guesses he ends up being close minded

sounds good enough for me

>California
not true considering that Pavement is one of his favourite bands

DESU most of the early rock critics were all New Yorkers which is why they glorified Lou Reed and the New York Dolls. They "got" those guys, but Black Sabbath were mystifying to them.

Depends. He also loved Sleater-Kinney who are from the Pacific Northwest, a long, long way from New York.

and therefore more easily to dismiss as pretentious garbage

truly a clever guy eh?

i agree that he rated Pac too poorly
but overally i think that Biggie >> Pac

Tupac is overrated shit anyway but the whole martyred hero thing makes him seem greater than he was.

heh, just found this
>"I admire metal's integrity, brutality, and obsessiveness, but I can't stand its delusions of grandeur"

doesn't it perfectly sum up Black Sabbath's entire opus?

I think Dre was the only undisputably good thing that came out of WC at that time, and not because of his lyrical skills

Christgau also shit on him. :^)

The classic albums definitely not. If you mean Dio-era Sabbath, that's what I mean when I'm talking about Wagnerian drama.

true :D
but he did like kendrick and eminem who were Dre-produced to be fair

I love Heaven and Hell, but if you're the type who believes rock and classical music shouldn't ever come into contact, I can see why you wouldn't care for it.

i am currenly trying to reason with someone who's educated and a plain xgau dickrider

>I've been worried something like this was going to happen since the first time I saw a numerology column in an underground newspaper.

you must all admit that guy knows how to be brutal hehe

poor taste desu

The early metal bands were basically all European, there wasn't a real American metal scene until thrash, which got rid of most of the operatic nonsense and made everything more fast and punky.

That's basically the same thing he said about Metallica. "I admire the speed, aggression, and politics of these guys, but I hate their Conan the Barbarian muscled heroes image."

>their Conan the Barbarian muscled heroes image
im guessing inferiority complex

i unironically think that he gave them too much credit

Totes. ;)

You Light Up My Life [Warner Bros., 1977]

Who cares if the single sold seven million? Trendsetters don't buy singles. Smart people like you and me don't buy singles, y'know what I mean? But now I hear the _album_ went platinum? D-

Turn On the Bright Lights [Matador, 2002]
They bitch because everybody compares them to Joy Division, and they're right. It's way too kind, and I say that as someone who thanks Ian Curtis for making New Order possible.

t. likes interpol :(

Frontiers [Columbia, 1983]

For those of you who truly thought the jig was up this time, I'll remind you all of how much worse it could be--this top 10 album could be outselling Thriller or Flashdance or Pyromania. My suggestion is for Steve Perry to run for office as a moderate Republican from, say, Nebraska, where his oratory would garner excellent press, and then, having shed his video game interests, stealthily ram the tape tax through. D+

Come on though, picking on Debbie Boone or Journey is like racing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Everyone Who Pretended to Like Me Is Gone [Startime International, 2002]
Just what we always wanted--Jonathan Fire*Eater grows up. Put some DreamWorks money into a studio, that was mature. Realized Radiohead was the greatest band in the world, brainy. Stopped playing so fast, hoo boy. And most important, switched vocalists from Nick Cave imitator to Rufus Wainwright imitator. Wainwright makes up better melodies with a dick in his mouth, and not only that, Cave has more literary ability. New York scene or (hint hint) no New York scene, DreamWorks isn't buying. C+

Frampton Comes Alive! [A&M, 1976]

All right, all right, Peter, you win. I'll review your stupid album--it's only been in the top 10 all year. Now will you please go away? C+

Christgau is all about the bantz. He writes these reviews to piss people off.

we should have a regular thread for his banter :D

That album was fucking huge when my dad was in college. He said his roommate played that one and Born To Run over and over and over and over until he couldn't stand it.

He hates all rock & roll and its offshoots like metal because he's a massive, peculiar poptimist who thinks rock should be simple and straightforward and that the Beatles were the best ever ever. He has his occasional slip ups but that's his general stance on rock music.

>certainly hope it is because prog sucks
Tell me why should anyone take his opinion on music seriously again.

Have You Never Been Mellow [MCA, 1975]

After checking out the competition--Joni Mitchell's latest was a letdown, Helen Reddy is repeating herself, Carly Simon is a bore--I began entertaining heathenish thoughts about this MOR nemesis. It was then that Carola gently reminded me otherwise. "A geisha." she scoffs. "She makes her voice smaller than it is to please men." Whereupon I dropped my heathenish thoughts and resumed finishing the dishes. D+

"Christgau has stated that his favorite artists of all time are Louis Armstrong, Chuck Berry, the Beatles, and the New York Dolls."

...

The Beatles actually were the guys who started the whole process that led to prog because they whitified and Europeanized rock-and-roll.

please add nicki minaj to the list

There we go. He likes the simple and the straightforward. For an intellectual, he seems highly offended by anything resembling intellectualism in his music.

The Doors [Elektra, 1967]
I admit that some of the tunes retain considerable nostalgic appeal, but there's no way I can get around it--Jim Morrison sounds like an asshole. B-

also Thelonious Monk

Two Steps From The Move [CBS, 1984]

These Finnish boys have laid down a set of songs whose English must impress their fellow Finns more than it does a native speaker like myself. Cutesy, energetic music follows, but it seems that they spent more time contemplating their Dolls photos than their Dolls records. But then great costumes over great hooks seems to be the rule now, at least in London. And apparently also Finland. C+

lyl you should read Conversations With The Dead where Jerry Garcia demolishes the Doors.

Black Sabbath [Warner Bros., 1970]
The worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter--bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos, everything.

Christgau does like jazz, but he said he's never written a lot about it because he lacks the formal musical training to write anything intelligent about it.

By the way, this was his "upgraded" review from Consumer Guide to the '70s. The original review from 1970 just went "Bullshit necromancy? Bullshit necromancy. E"

Trout Mask Replica [Straight, 1969]
I find it impossible to give this record an A because it is just too weird. But I'd like to. Very great played at high volume when you're feeling shitty, because you'll never feel as shitty as this record. B+

I think bullshit necromancy has just become my favourite syntagm.

Bridge Over Troubled Water [Columbia, 1970]

Melodic. B

yeah, knew this one haha

What does Robert Christgau do in bed? I mean, is he a toe fucker?

Going for the One [Atlantic, 1977]

The title track may be their best song ever, challenging a formula that even apologists are apologizing for by now with cutting hard rock guitar and lyrics in which Jon Anderson casts aspersions on his own cosmic mind. But even there, you wish you could erase Rick Wakeman, and elsewhere Steve Howe has as little to say. C

The Ramones [Squire, 1976]

I love, love, love this record. It's clean the way the Dolls weren't, sprightly the way the Velvets weren't, and just plain listenable like Black Sabbath never were. The references to Nazism do make me a bit uneasy, but then it's always been my theory that good rock-and-roll had damn well better make you uneasy. Not that these boys condone any nasties, mind you, they merely hint that their music has some fairly ominous sources they tap into. And I hear it cost $6800 to put on plastic. A

Radiohead wouldn't know a tragic hero if they were cramming for their A levels, and their idea of soul is Bono, who they imitate further at the risk of looking even more ridiculous than they already do. So instead they pickle Thom Yorke's vocals in enough electronic marginal distinction to feed a coal town for a month.

The Dark Side of the Moon [Harvest, 1973]
With its technological mastery and its conventional wisdom once-removed, this is a kitsch masterpiece...

Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables [I.R.S., 1980]

I want there to be more punk rock, I do, I do. I want there to be more left wing New Wave, actually. By Americans at that. But not by an out-of-work singer with Tiny Tim vibrato who spent the first half of the previous decade developing rock cabaret. And it sounds as if, although I'm being generous, that Jello Biafra started listening to the Stooges in 1977. C-

Wisconsin Death Trip [Warner Bros., 1999]

horrorshow in stereo--they mean it, man ("Wisconsin Death Trip", "I'm With Stupid"). *

Maladroit [Geffen, 2002]
Down from 48 percent to 35 at amiannoying.com, not because they're less annoying but because they're less successful.