When did the Left kill Punk?

At what point did the Left* begin to dominate Punk subculture? The Left has always been a presence, but criticizing Leftism, even for the sake of a joke, was historically allowed, especially if you had a good sense of humor.

I was actually inspired by one of the previous threads we've had and a musing from a friend who was a Hippie in the '60s and '70s.

The Hippies were more optimistic about the possibilities of social, cultural, and political change, whereas the Punks - having learned a lesson from the failure of the hippies to transform mainstream society - were generally more cynical about those possibilities. Even so, both countercultures rebelled against mainstream society and the political system, and both were pissed off and into a cornucopia of earthly delights, especially sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll.

Then, the New Left successfully co-opted the Hippie Movement in the late '60s. Hijacking the subculture was no challenge since outsiders started trickling into the scene, often those who had no clue about, or were even diametrically opposed to, the movement's actual values. The influx of sectarian political activists, petty underclass criminals, hard drug addicts, jocks and outlaw bikers drove the final nail in the coffin.

History repeated itself with the Punks, so all their cynicism did little to overcome the errors of the Hippies. Countercultures challenge or oppose the core values and assumptions of the social and political establishment, but both the Hippies and Punks ceased to be anything more than subcultures, which exist for trends, be they Skinheads, Metalheads, Grungeheads, et cetera.

What happened, Sup Forums? Why is Punk so stuffy, square, leftist and humorless these days?

*For the sake of argument, let's assume the Left includes egalitarian idealists, post-structuralists, progressives, feminists, queer theorists, anarchists, Marxists, socialists, communists.

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man, the hippie subculture got stomped out by the nixon administration, had nothing to do with their own failings (though i guess you could argue that not avoiding mass arrests is their own failure)

>failure of the hippies to transform mainstream society
The hippies didn't fail, take a look at the world we live in today.

First for kill all leftists.

But the Hippies did fail. They couldn't into strategy.

The "hippies" came about during the the 1960s, a period that was generally an economic boom across the west. Punk was a movement that came through the 1970s, a period of economic recession.
The people generally considered hippies were generally middle class whites who, despite being angry about various social and political problems, were pretty optimistic about the future as they had grown up in the post-war economic boom.
The people who became the punks were experiencing high unemployment and generally little to no prospects for their future. Thats obviously gonna make you more cynical about the future.

When did the right kill Sup Forums?

The problem with posts like this is you take an entire cohort of and paint them with the same brush.

Your definition of "hippies" include everyone from black panthers & SLAs, to the casual & apolitical drug user. For many people, the spread of pornography into mainstream culture during the 70s alone would be enough to call it a success. Not to mention the legalization of homosexuality (yes, it was actually illegal before stonewall) and the spread of feminism & civil rights that resulted in black and female leaders getting elected in the 70s, basically for the first time.

The only people who would call it a failure would be those who were expecting a full-scale race war, or undoing of US capitalism. Which, regardless of what your politics are today, would've had terrible consequences.

Counterculture movements like hippies and punks become watered-down over time, because A. the original system they rallied against changed or B. it didn't have any substance in the first place. If there's one group of ppl that don't give a fuck about where punk is today, is the original hardcore bands. At least black flag/minor threat/misfits/minutemen understood none of it was meant to be taken seriously.

Fuck you racist

Where is your idea that punk is square and humorless coming from? Not every punk is a hardcore anarchist or marxist or even feminist first of all. Also do you not think people with serious political convictions political ideals can have a sense of humor? Even if people were hardcore leftists, what makes them humorless

The band Aus-Rotten, for starters.

bump for "antifascism shouldnt automatically be pro communism"

>Also do you not think people with serious political convictions political ideals can have a sense of humor?
From my experience, no.

Hey, Mr. Watson. Don't you got more Snoop Dog to trash?

Fuck off.

>anyone I don't like is Paul Joseph Watson

Sadly, it's often the case. Indeed, you'd have certain schools of Anarchists argue that Anarchism IS Communism.

Sometimes, I wonder if the difference between Socialism and Communism parallels HIV and AIDS.

do you know why punk started besides the idea of being counter to hippie culture? it was a bunch of fucked up, abandoned, kicked to the curb kids that didn't feel like they belonged anywhere, so they stopped giving a fuck. they made their own "somewhere," and that's what punk fucking is. being someone who is outside of the "norm," to say (although that's kind of hard to define, but i'm not sure how to say that any other way so go with me), is cause for rebellion especially when people try to shove you back in that mold. these days punk is still the same. it's a bunch of fucked up abandoned kids who just want a place to let out their aggression and not be ostracized for it (i.e. leftists, queer people, feminists, anarchists, etc.). and if you were really a part of the newish punk scene these days, you'd know that it hasn't really changed all that much, it's just that people don't want to fuck with ideals that suppress others (fascism, conservatism, nazism, etc.). i went to a punk show maybe around a week ago that was a dirty, beer soaked mess that was filled with angry people who just wanted a place to exist freely. people still have fun, people still laugh, just not at hippies anymore. you're making this idea you have too broad of one. i get where you're coming from, especially if you were to compare someone like gg allin to a queer, femme, feminist person screaming about the patriarchy, but you can't pigeonhole punk into that. look at lou reed, the ramones, the new york dolls, i mean come on dude jayne county is a fucking trans woman who uses the word tranny proudly. again, the problem that i have with your post isn't so much that you're trying to insinuate that punk's gone soft (which it really hasn't), it's that you're generalizing a very complex issue that can't be fully understood and discussed unless you spend a very long time discussing it.

People who join counterculture movements and take it seriously are mostly faggots. At least hippies spawned some great music. Most punk is trash tho and the people that identify with it are disgusting and retarded

I understand what you're trying to say. The subculture existed for social outcasts and those with horrible circumstances at home to find meaning and belonging (be it in art, politics, et cetera), but a plurality of them came from comfortable middle to upper class backgrounds; people like Penny Rimbaud and even Joe Strummer had money back home. Hell, Penny Rimbaud was still on good terms with his parents; he even admitted to jerking off his dying father as a parting gift.

The biggest bone I have to pick here is
>just want a place to let out their aggression and not be ostracized for it (i.e. leftists, queer people, feminists, anarchists, etc.)

It's hard to play revolutionary when you want to take refuge in a safe space. GG Allin never at any point in his career pretended to be anything than a terminal fuck-up, but he lived and played by his rules and dealt with the consequences. While we're on the subject of scene politics, the RAC skinheads faced literally everything and still soldiered on in spite of facing insurmountable odds. In the end, they lost, but they took a far braver stance than any of these wannabes.

>jerking off his dying father as a parting gift

dead kennedys

It's no word of a lie:
cvltnation.com/the-heavy-mental-interview-with-penny-rimbaud/

>The Hippies were more optimistic about the possibilities of social, cultural, and political change

wut

The hippie movement was known for a bunch of people doing all kinds of taboo things. It wasn't a movement of "love" or "change". It was a movement of a bunch of people in their 20's pissed at the Vietnam war and by extension human nature itself, and it became pretty aimless.

The first two Velvet Underground albums are a decent representation of what hippie culture was like.

I don't agree with your post, a lot of rock music made in the 60's and early 70's was leftist because that was the hip mentality among the younger generations at that time, mainly because a lot of musicians from that period grew up in either areas with racial tension or they lost family members from World War II, (like Roger Waters) and they got sick of it. At least that is what I think. I'm not sure how accurate or inaccurate I am.

Based

I expected to laugh not to be touched by the story

Touched, you say?

>to be touched

I will smile and celebrate when Trump finally deports you, Carlos.

...

>implying I'm an Anarchist, much less an AnCap.

no you will not because you can't smile and celebrate
lmao

>Implying Punk wasn't pretty far left early on
>implying most of the most popular punk bands aren't lefty

NAME ANOTHER I FUCKING DARE YOU

lol nice one

Peste Noire
Public Enemy
Michael More
Milo Yinapolis
the writers of South Park

MDC
I mean the entire alt right and most of the far left seem too as do a lot of libertarians. Idk.

Honestly Aus Rotten is cool as fuck
Realistically speaking theres going to be artists who are far left or right of you in any genre you listen to. Just enjoy the music for what it is.

I mean I'm pretty far left but I've listened to bands that aren't and I'm fine with it. Grow up. If you're a pussy about shit like this then you shouldn't be listening to rock music.

>The Left has always been a presence
>a presence

>implying that it isn't literally the founding ideology of punk

Further proof that punk is degenerate leftist bullshit

...

rollingstone.com/music/news/prog-rock-pioneer-greg-lake-punk-is-not-a-form-of-music-its-a-fashion-statement-20130305
This board is for discussion about music, not fashion.

>implying that it isn't literally the founding ideology of punk
It isn't.

And Aus-Rotten are a bunch of whiny socialist faggots

>a movement by the working class, for the working class, seen as a rebellion against the establishment and higher classes, heavily influenced by the music of a leftist, is not leftist

i want Sup Forums to leave

i want whiny scrawny faggots to leave

I'm a right-wing anarchist.

>influx of obvious Sup Forums beacons
>mods do nothing

I DON'T PAY YOU FUCKS SOROS BUCKS FOR NOTHING

Johny Ramone ...

Misfits...

Gnostic Movement...

Fear...

i browse Sup Forums on a regular basis and even i want Sup Forums to leave.

this is the MUSIC board, this is no place for autistic shitposting about politics. if you aren't going to talk about music then fucking leave

>implying the mods have ever done ther jobs

>everybody who doesn't agree with my far left views is Sup Forums
kill yourself

t. Sup Forums boi pussy

No such thing.

>Johnny Ramone
You mean the one who was always at odds with his bandmates politically?
>Misfits
Being into conspiracy theories doesn't make you a right-winger.
>Gnostic Movement
According to Google, this band does not exist.
>Fear
Source?

t. numale pussy

This.

THESE.

Fuck off Sup Forumstard cancer

Fuck off pussy boy

fight me irl nerd

I mean Punk was always the meeting of working class union politics,the intelectual elite,and fetish culture. Theres nothing conservative about any of that. Same goes for metal. Rob Halford was a leather daddy who sang about doing cocaine and driving fast and dominating other men. Lemmy was a speed freak libertarian from the hippie era. The lead singer of Mayhem was a literal stalinist and Quthereon spent his entire carrer singing about how awesome sweden was. Sludge Metal goes out of its way to signal both drug culture and union politics. Right-Wing rock is 100% reactionary garbage.

and so it continues

We can cherry pick bands all day.

For starters: Ovaltinees, Skrewdriver, Skullhead, British Standard, Peter & the Wolf (UK), Hobnail, Sudden Impact, Brutal Attack, Close Shave, Combat 84, Condemned 84, Squadron, Razors Edge, Lionheart, Grade One, Brutal Combat, Légion 88, Evil Skins, Chauves Pourris, Bunker 84, Battle Zone, Bulldog Breed, Indecent Exposure, London Branch, No Remorse, Violent Storm, Celtic Warrior, Empire, Freikorps, Kahlkopf, Landser, Noie Werte, Saccara, Stahlgewitter, Störkraft, Sturmtrupp, División 250, Guarda de Ferro, Nouvelle Croisade, Ultime Assaut, Les Vilains, Aryan, Arresting Officers, Max Resist, New Glory, No Alibi, Elite Terror, Doc Marten, Day of the Sword, Rival, Bound For Glory, Platoon 14, Fight For Freedom, White Noise, Fortress, Open Season

I can keep going

>dominating other men
Proof?

He's an openly gay man who dresses like a stripper cop on stage and a lot of his songs are about whips and chains and shit. don't be dense.

>Same goes for metal.
No, it doesn't.

Metal has always been and will continue to be a genre first and subculture second. You can make the argument for Punk since it's the opposite, but Metal will continue to exist no matter what the political trends are. Sure, many major figures are left-leaning, but there's a good plurality of right-wing Metal musicians and an even greater number of right-wing Metalheads.

he spent his money on a sex dungeon. yeah thats true
Metal should always be the music first and anything else second.

>all literally whos that did nothing of note besides being fascists

I generally try not to judge metal by its politics ever and really just focus on the musicality of it. Politics are important in art but ultimately very much secondary.

nigga i know he was gay but i thought he kept the lyrics ambiguous.

>he spent his money on a sex dungeon
lmaooo livin the life

I've only heard of like 3 of these.
Needless to say punk is lefty.

I mean he kept it vauge but theres def gay overtones lyrically.
The denim dudes and the leather boys or whatever and hell bent on leather aren't really all that subtle.

Looks like someone needs to read "The White Nationalist Skinhead Movement" by Eddie Stampton.

Like it or not, RAC was a foil to Rock Against Racism and Anarcho-Punk. Even Penny Rimbaud acknowledged the WN Skinheads had a right to organize and make music which nobody else had recognized. They may not have record sales or favorable coverage by media outlets, but the movement existed with some clout, and to try and explain them away just reeks of revisionism.

depends on which band we're talking about desu

also which genre.

Let's start with Skrewdriver and all Ian Stuart's side-projects.

That very band put Rock-O-Rama Records on the map and created a generation of Nationalist Skinheads.

yeah but I think theres people who defend overrated crud like Berzum by saying "yur just being pc lolz"

Skrewdriver may not have had the media coverage or cult of personality Varg has acquired, but if you ask me, Skrewdriver accomplished much more than Burzum. They had a street presence, organized concerts, had connections to the skinhead scene (Paul Swain of 4-Skins played guitar for them at one point) and kept making music until Ian's death.

so would varg if he didn't get thrown in jail and and went insane

Idk enough about Oi! to say desu. I feel like they probably helped shape the genre a little but I don't really know.

pretty much

I mean he copied Bathory big time and most of the shit he inspired is boring hipster metal so maybe not.

>The lead singer of Mayhem was a literal stalinist and Quthereon spent his entire carrer singing about how awesome sweden was
Not the best example considering everyone hated Euronymous and the scene has always been full of far right people except for Fenriz

Yeah that's true

>Scrawny

Implying Sup Forumstards aren't skinny little white boys bragging how tough they are on the internet

At least Sup Forums keeps their posing confined to imageboards.

Antifa idiots do this shit IRL and look positively stupid

Get into it.

There's plenty of left-wing and apolitical bands to choose from if RAC is too much for you.

This is another in a long line of threads trying desperately to rewrite history and pretend that "all the good guys were on my political side" because the new fucks on this God forsaken website are so pathetically desperate to fit in anywhere that they've latched on to racism and petty political contrarianism on an image board so someone will pat them on the back. None of them understand the point of punk, they think being edgy is all that matters, and they frankly sound 15. So yes, I think they are Sup Forums and they should keep it there.

Burzum is amazing, go back to death Euronymous.

Only half of that is inaccurate.

>Quthereon