Why did Spanish possessions break up into multiple different countries...

Why did Spanish possessions break up into multiple different countries, as opposed to staying as 1 big blob like Portuguese possessions?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_conquest_of_the_Banda_Oriental
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragamuffin_War
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bumpalaisët

tfw no mexican gf

Brazil pretty much got their shit together once the royal family of Portugal fled there. Spanish America on the other hand was always a pretty caothic place with abyssal cultural and economic differences plus the independence wars just aggravated these differences.

do you know guaraní?

Its simple
Oligarchs interests

Karacha la nde hilo lekaja.

nice, i read that almost everybody in paraguay knows both

Nde tembo

isn't spain also all fragmented while pooptugal is unified? probably stems from that

1. The Spanish colonies combined were much bigger than Brazil and its geography much more broken (Andes, Caribbean, 2 Oceans, over 10.000 KM between California and Argentina). That's why it was divided in huge autonomous Viceroyalties to manage. Said Viceroyalties were the basis of the new nations.

2. The independence wars were a mess since there was no unifying figure, Brazil had the portugese Royal Family first and then their Emperor so their independence was brief and mostly bloodless and there was little turmoil or vaccum of power (In comparison to Spanish America).

3. Due to this turmoil small caudillos broke up the new nations even more for their personal projects or conflicting views (liberal vs conservative, single country or many countries, etc).

Brazil literally had our fucking king as their first head of state...

because why not?

some countries merge, others get seccesion.

it's not like Hispanic American countries are small.

-Brazil didnt have an independence war, the Monarchy moved there during the Napoleonic Wars, while Spanish America had a continental civil war between independentists and loyalists.

-Brazil was a colony of coastal cities on the same sea, Spanish America had greater geographic barriers.

-Spanish America had stronger local identities and institutions (viceroyalties, Audiencias which were Supreme Courts of Justice for territories too far away from the Viceroyal capital, Capitanias Generales, Universities, Cabildos, all centuries old)
In the same way that some Europeans dont like the European Union, many Spanish Americans didnt want a big union, because they didnt want to be ruled from xxx place.
The "oppresion" of the King of Spain, was weak, from someone on the other side of the ocean, in comparison to the oppression a Paraguayan could feel from Buenos Aires, or a Guatemalan from Mexico city. That was far closer than Spain.
Unity, would have been worse than remaining loyal to Spain.

But Uruguay separated from Brazil. That is, Brazil has already fragmented

Uruguay was conquered by Brazil and got its independence.
They were a Spanish speaking Spanish colony occupied by Brazil.

Brazil has had several wars with states trying to separate from the Union.

The last one was close to the second world war, São Paulo fought alone against all states of the federation.

If Brazil were fragmented the chance of having a reasonably good country would be great.

The only salvation for Brazil today would be a fragmentation in several countries. You have no idea how absurd the decisions of rulers are. Today the Supreme Court has said that the person has the right to kill another person and respond in freedom if he has a good criminal record and released a murderer who killed the woman and gave the dog a meal.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

But it's no motive. Canada speaks French and English.

In the South of Brazil, only German, Italian and Spanish were spoken (depending on the city). Some places on the coast of Brazil spoke Portuguese.

The president had to make a law forbidding people from speaking those languages and decreed closing a foreign language newspaper. In addition to prohibiting schools from teaching these languages.


In cities in Rio Grande do Sul almost 100% of the population only spoke Italian.

very european my friend

really impressive

because each region's leaders had their own interests and didn't give a flying fuck about the repercussions of doing so would have in the future.

Asdas jisjidw AAAJ

kuts kin kik sazami aaj ubi?

it still doesnt mean a part of Brazil broke away, Portugal/Brazil invaded Uruguay in 1816 and the Portuguese court was in Rio de Janeiro since 1808.

thank you, my white friend

Don't forget to mention that Portugal invaded us IN AGREEMENT WITH BUENOS AIRES just to cuck Artigas.

Good thing Bsas lost us forever anyway.

Paraguayan Guaraní (ie: Jopará) is pretty much a meme language, it's almost unintelligible with the guaraní that natives speak and it's has around 30-70% spanish vocabulary depending on the speaker.

I know u love this body bb come and sit in my lap

Buenos Aires is happy too, dont worry.

Ecuador really doesn't have much in common with Argentina...

Tkulaka tiinj sra?

Neither Arizona has with Maine and you guys still stick together.

>Pueyrredón, same as the previous rulers, was sympathetic to a defeat of Artigas, still considering him an expression of barbarism. Pueyrredón's attitude was ambiguous against the Portuguese invasion, accounting for one side that it implied in Buenos Aires the struggle against federalism and artiguismo in particular, but on the other hand also to a public in Buenos Aires that massively opposed to segregation of the territory and the British interests seeking the creation of a small independent state.

>Ultimately, Pueyrredón as supreme director, collaborated with the invasion, not only because he did not declare war on the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves to the occupation of part of the country he governed, but because he steadily attacked the provinces of the Federal League, which were inhibited to cooperate with the defense of the territory organized by Artigas.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_conquest_of_the_Banda_Oriental

NEVER FORGET

Are you retarded?South brazil only started to get other non-portuguese european immigration decades after independence...
You're talking about something after independence.When Portugal conquered the south of brazil from the spaniards it forced spanish speakers out and repopulated it fast...
Uruguay/banda oriental was going to suffer the same thing but then you decided to go independent and then you lost banda oriental

And now you speak spanish are you proud?Well you were going to speak brazilian portuguese so I imagine your fears

>Ecuador really doesn't have much in common with Argentina.

both are overwhemengly mestizo countries
both speak spanish
both were spanish slave-colonies
both are third world shitholes
both are relatively close to each other
hmmmm

>Well you were going to speak brazilian portuguese so I imagine your fears
para

Perú will try their best!

Why did you have to fight so much with the Spanish over us, couldn't you just get along?

If Uruguay were a part of Argentina, they would have millions of inhabitants more (Montevideo would be the main port, not Buenos Aires), but they would also be a place immigrants from neighbour countries would go too.
Being independent shielded them from Nordestinos, Paraguayans and Bolivians, at the small cost of being irrelevant.

Obviously not good enough effort

So?

The point is the same

I agree, the strategic potential of Uruguay and particularly Montevideo was erased completely due to us being a shitty non-country.

If Argentina had us, they would be able to close unilaterally the Rio de la Plata basin and dominate the southern Atlantic from Montevideo.

If Brazil had us they would be able to grab Argentina by the balls just by putting a few ships in Colonia del Sacramento. Also Montevideo would be a huge competitor for Buenos Aires. Not to mention immediate access to the De la Plata Basin. There was a reason the Portugese wanted us for so long.

As an independent state Montevideo is just a somewhat relevant Mercosur comercial port because we don't have the economic or military power to make use of our deceptively important position.

In our case, natural borders helped a lot.

literally none of those things is true.

>both speak spanish

Are you retarded? don't give him the precious (You)

Rio de Janeiro master race kept everyone in line.
Long live the Empire!

Shut up, Cisplatina.

>long live the empire
>uses the disgusting republic flag instead of the honorable monarchy flag
Gross.

CHI

Why do watershed boundaries look so much more aesthetic than artificial man made borders?

CA

Wrong flagbearer, sorry.

GO

>Implicando que seguir formando parte del imperio es malo

¿Sabes que si no se hubiese desintegrado el imperio durante la revolución industrial hubiera sido infinitamente más beneficioso para España y América verdad? La doctrina Monroe no hubiera hecho estragos en Hispanoamérica jodiendo hasta la saciedad vuestros gobiernos y convirtiendo centroamérica en la puta de USA. Toda esa asquerosa corrupción y narcos proviene de USA y su doctrina Monroe. Con los recursos de América España habría industralizado el imperio y ahora España tendría una economía mucho más fuerte y más peso mundial y en Hispanoamérica no había gobiernos corruptos y narcotraficantes por doquier.

It's okay, friend.

Si el imperio hubiese sido funcional no habría colapsado

Do not blame America if your colonies are not as good as those of portugual

>Y sí era tan bueno ¿por qué se murio?
Matate

El imperio no colapsó, no es una arteria, la independencia de América es muy simple, España estaba invadida por Francia, el país estaba en una situación muy débil, una situación que aprovecharon los terratenientes poderosos de América que querían gobernar sus tierras sin rendir cuentas a nadie, la independencia de América fue sobretodo una guerra civil entre los que querían la independencia y los que no. Si Manuel Godoy no hubiera regalado España a Napoleón la historia para Hispanoamérica hubiera sido muy distinta.

?

>MCC papá España describe cómo habrían sido las cosas en la esfera hispana si las repugnantes ranas no les hubiesen jodido el teatro, siendo los anglos los que dieron la estocada final
no puedo con la tristeza
>MCC la alta concentración de chairos e izquierdosos en México y el resto de latino américa respectivamente, así como las hordas de podemitas y fascistas wannabes que les encantaría darle la mano a Franco no dejarían que eso pasara...y los anglos y demás compañía
dios mio no no, hagan que pare

La verdad que los franceses cuckearon a España muy muy fuerte, la invasión fue la peor.

Siempre se habla de la rivalidad anglo-hispánica pero me parece que Francia ha hecho incluso más daño a lo largo de la historia si recordamos como siempre jodieron a los Hasburgo.

Because countries should be based on them. That thing I posted would have been a Superpower if it had been united.

Desde el siglo 18 ya existía una identidad criolla en latinoamérica, demostrado por diversos intelectuales de la época. Era inevitable.

Además, la identidad católica no era ya válida para la mayoría de la población influenciada por ideales franceses

That's the "Argentina is Amerindian" troll.

Different strongmen in different regions all achieved independence in their own ways. Disagreements between regional leaders prevented any kind of unity.

When is the balkanization of Brazil coming to save our cunt?

>implying it's not true
take off your proxy diego

the 2 southern states of brazil tried independence though
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragamuffin_War

Some Viceroyalties break up, Spanish possessions never were an unified thing to begin with.

the bad guys won desu

the south shall rise again!

tfw parana and we didnt even tried to get indepedence

Empire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rebelshit