Wtf i have sympathy for kyle now

wtf i have sympathy for kyle now

wtf i hate Sup Forums now

what did he mean by this

wtf i hate guns now

I wanted to make serious post about how Clint Eastwood sets himself to task to find sympathy for a very unsympathetic person and asks audience the same.

but I figured serious starting post would get ignored by memes.

I enjoyed the film as a narrative but it did seem irresponsible to do a hagiography of a guy who based on his public statements was pathological in many aspects of his personality.

Eastwood is an idiotic nationalist peddling propaganda for the military. His flicks are trash.

>nationalist
Nothing wrong with that, faggot.
Kill yourself

>i take pride in accomplishments i took no part in
>i have a false sense of superiority over other geographical regions
>i feel a false sense of comradery and community with people i will never meet or know
>i feel these things because my dad nutted in my mom within arbitrary lines
I'm sure you're a regular at your local MENSA chapter.

>a hagiography
You think Kyle was a saint in the film? I saw a misguided man going off his rocker probably in the worst way possible. It's like a bizarre Ford film.

Moral compass of the film was Kyle's wife and she's heavy on Kyle when he has changed.

I liked it, directing was top notch.

What else is good from Eastwood's modern filmography? The past 16 years?

He was made out to be far more sympathetic than he should have been. The dude revelled in killing people and was a complete moron.

Considering Unforgiven, this felt like a hard mode version of same film in the sense that both films try to make you sympathetic towards clearly unsympathetic person and I think American Sniper did it better. Unforgiven is *too easy*, Hackman and the town is too easy to hate to make Munny's sympathy earned in that sense.

*tips fedora*

I have to admit I don't know context the film was based on, except that he was a controversial figure and the general 101 of Iraq invasion and war.

There was also nothing in the film to indicate it was based on real events, like no 'based on real events' text when you press play. I can forgive it and accept the 'changes' and apperciate the film on its own.

>propaganda for the military
How do you end propaganda for military? Another veteran killing another veteran! That's how you get people to join!

>What else is good from Eastwood's modern filmography? The past 16 years?

everything eastwood made is good, seriously

Worth watching due to him being auteur, yes I guess so.

But actually *good*? I've heard some very awful things about Jersey Boys and Hereafter

It's not about getting people to join. It's about garnering sympathy for a wholly unsympathetic sociopath who was the poster boy for everything wrong with American soldier worship.

i didn't care for jersey boys because it wasn't a compelling story for me

but it was still well acted and shot with a good story

hereafter is for a specific audience, that the demographic on Sup Forums and the media doesn't match up with

Everyone knows the movies events were mostly made up. The dude admitted it.

I'm betting you didn't grow up around PoC

t. An actual cuck
You're a disgrace to your bloodline, faggot. There is nothing wrong in being proud of your homeland. Your ancestors all managed to go on and live, not being faggots, until you.

>Sense of superiority over other
I'm saying everyone should be nationalistic, you fucking faggot.
>Sense of comradery and community
"I don't know what a community is or means" - You

I bet you're a real stud, successful and /fit/ too, right? Kill yourself, you autistic fat cunt.

There's no 'film is based on true events' notification nor does it really make me believe it tries to be a docudrama at anypoint. More than anything I find myself thinking Unforgiven, the Searchers during it than Iraq invasion.

Probably the most neutral things I've read of those films. I think I will watch True Crime (99) and rewatch Mystic River (2003) tonight and then see where I will go from there.

Can you find it in your heart is what he asks during the film, yeah. If he failed, at least he tried to be ambitious. Even finding sympathy for bin Laden would be easier.

That's enough about narrative. I love the directing and Cooper in the film. Eastwood still got it.

I understand that you guys are trying to argue that Eastwood was trying to make a point about the guy

But most of the people who went and saw this were Cloyd Rivers Americans who thought "yeah this guys a badass motherfucker, fuck yeah the 2nd amendment, fuckin liberals" after seeing it, not anything deep about the portrayal

>Soldier worship
This has gone on probably since the dawn of man.

Faggot here gets triggered because he grew up on the net and Tumblr and they say: "Soldiers r bad, they kill innocent people and stuff and thy r bad guy even tho without them we wud be fuckt"

You should consider taking yourself out of the gene pool, i'm serious

I don't care what Cloyd Rivers Americans (lmao, what does this mean?) thought of it. I found it ambitious of him to ask people to find sympathy and empathy to a such unsympathetic (even in the film) person and while Cooper doesn't go as dark as I want him to, he is very good.

>Probably the most neutral things I've read of those films. I think I will watch True Crime (99) and rewatch Mystic River (2003) tonight and then see where I will go from there.

of course it's neutral
i love movies more than the sound of my own voice

Is this post made by IRL Kyle's ghost or are you this deluded.

I was kind of insinuating you are holding back your criticism of those films.

What are your favorite films from Eastwood, and favorite films of his from the past two decades?

> Most of the people who don't subscribe to my point of view are anti-intellectual morons!

Please grow up.

honestly if you take out the fact that it was vaguely based around a real story all you're left with is propaganda.

Propaganda of what? Are Unforgiven and the Searchers propaganda now too?

>favorite films of his from the past two decades?

no

I'm from the inner city of Philly. Your lilly white ass would be afraid to drive through the neighborhood I grew up in.

>my bloodline
top kek

>i want everyone to be a nationalist
That doesn't make it any less of a nebulous idea.

>my idea of a community revolves around lines drawn up by people who I have no connection to and who wouldn't give two shits about what happens to me (i'm sure race as well)
You're a useful idiot.

>since the dawn of man
>{{citation needed}}

this is always a response
you can set your clock by it
>wow cuck
>pride over things you have literally no connection to is justified!
>you're a disgrace to your bloodline!

history can be cool, but pride over that shit is no less retarded than feeling shame over it.

the irony is that the same people who espouse that bullshit are the first ones to be like "wtf is this reparations shit, the people who suffered and the people who perpetrated whatever atrocities are long dead!" yeah of course. It makes perfect fucking sense in that case, all of a sudden, but point out the same shit about something they're "proud" of and whoa nelly

That's the dumbest post I've read in a while lad. Your community is not your nation you dumb fuck.

It was common practice to prepare larger graves for hunters and warriors,out of respect.

>the Searchers
why yes, yes it is, but it also manages to be a much more interesting movie

do people on this forum today know anything?
fuckin newfags get out

>do people on this forum today know anything?

they are children..15 to 20 yrs old tops

>There's no 'film is based on true events' notification
Except there is. At the very beginning.

I think Unforgiven's Munny was easier to sympathize with. The story was set up as an already repentant man being dragged back into the old ways because the legit way was failing. Add in some scratched up women being maimed by nobodies and indirectly getting your friend killed and leaving his wife a widow and you've got a quick, clear cut western.

-----

American Sniper was harder for me to sympathize with because it was just a guy doing his job. When you sign up for military work as a sniper killing people is just what you do. There is also less risk to the reward because unlike gunslighers in westerns, in the military you've got an entire nation backing you up. It's just not the same as a lone wolf.

Yeah sure he signed up for more tours because he felt like he needed to do more but in the end he wasn't a one man army. The scenes with his wife were short and almost unneeded in the sense he discards the family life for work anyways. And I felt the movie and the ending was forced a little too quickly, likely because it's hard to condense an entire mans life in a film but also because it's harder for me to sympathize when I understand the mechanisms behind his ironic death and follow up memorials.

But I dunno that a just like My opinion man

ITT
>soldier does his job, is suddenly the most unsympathetic character in history, literally worse than satan
>if you are proud of anything any group you are a part of has done in the past, you are a fucking idiot and no one can be proud of or happy about anything unless they did it themselves personally.

'Does his job' is morally bankrupt excuse for anything m8

I literally wanted to give him a bj the whole movie

I watched up until the deer shot.

Didn't notice.

people idolize asshole then get pissed when they find out the person they idolized was garbage. everyone in the world sucks.

What do you think most mythology is, dumb cunt?

what sympathy are you talking about?

why are you calling a combat veteran an unsympathetic man.

are you jealous you will never be man enough to walk a similar path?

bunch of slack jawed faggots on this board

Yes, Unforgiven was an easy film and that's why I don't see it as ambitious as American Sniper. This is same sort of project, but far harder.

>American Sniper was harder for me to sympathize with because it was just a guy doing his job. When you sign up for military work as a sniper killing people is just what you do. There is also less risk to the reward because unlike gunslighers in westerns, in the military you've got an entire nation backing you up. It's just not the same as a lone wolf.
He can't get sympathy from you because it was his job to kill those people? wow

even most medal winners ( particularly MOH winners ) say that they represent many others that were not recognized

but that doesn't sell well..so it gets ignored

t. "Le army is bad i hate them therefore im going against THE MAN''
Grow up, you fucking morons. There is nothing wrong with being nationalistic or proud of your heritage in any way.

Am I alone in thinking Sienna Miller looked her hottest in this?

So everyone that participates in the military is as bad as you guys seem to think Kyle is?

Answer this honestly.

Or if I'm being too broad, everyone in the military that has ever killed anyone?

Or even more specifically, every person who has ever shot someone from long range?

I really truly am not understanding the hate for this specific person.

>maybe if i strawman hard enough they'll be distracted from my lack of argument

are there any /k/ fags here

how come this guy trained to become a navy SEAL right from the get go? doesn't he have to be a basic bitch first and show his worth somehow?

In that case everyone is morally bankrupt.
When you buy your fucking keyboard you typed your post on... you probably contributed to the death of some cunt.

But here we have it: A genius who knows more than all the generals and soldiers and people that came before him... "Soldiers r bad guyz i seen it on twitter and in vice maagaizine"

Kill yourself, you're so predictable.

>So everyone that participates in the military is as bad as you guys seem to think Kyle is?
Strawman and moving the goalpost and a loaded question

wev lad.

>mfw Sup Forumsumblr hates this and finds it EXTREMELY problematic

The movie was fine. What the fuck did you expect them to do about biopic of an American sniper? He shoots people in the fucking face. The war turned out to be a huge disaster, sure, but America was fairly justified for invading Iraq. It was perfectly reasonable for the US to believe that a dumbass autocratic manlet dictator who bragged about having nuclear weapons and was going to use them against Americans actually had nuclear weapons and was going to use them against Americans.

Saddam was an evil as fuck bipolar psychopath who genocided hundreds of thousands of kurds, and was corrupt as shit. One of his son's had a literal rape dungeon in one of the presidential palaces where he filmed himself raping chicks. The world's a better place without him anymore and I'm not sorry he's dead and the world is a better place without him.

Also, don't come at me with that oil shit, you know who won all those oil refinery contracts when they were auctioned off in 2007? Fucking Russians, Malaysians and Angolans. In fact, American oil imports from Iraq aren't even a single percent and have never been a means of profit to any American, government or corporate.

>"let me jus chek my image tht is pinned to some boards nd it teaches me how to argue propelerylyl"
End yourself

Jew propaganda

I hope you're just trolling.

yeah isis are way better than sadam NOT ya fuckin retoid

I safely remained deaf about all the noise about this movie.
Are some people really triggered by Kyle? I unironically don't see anything wrong with him.

>>i take pride in accomplishments i took no part in
Have you ever talked to your father about it? Gone straight to him and say "Dad, I'm not proud of you".

How so?

I mean, if you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but I honestly asked why this specific person is such a piece of shit in your eyes.

yeah lets torture a guy and get him to say there are wmds so we can be excused of responsibility

fuck yeah amerika there are **TOTES* wmds in Iraq

graeat movie

I don't think most people had a problem with Kyle being a soldier, there are lots of people who are soldiers, but they have a problem with him personally since he was a guy who is quoted as "hating those damn savages" and "couldn't give a flying fuck about the Iraqis," but then goes on to say that he just really believed that every person he shot was justified because he believed them to be a legitimately bad person. Along with the fact that he has proven to make unsubstantiated claims, like fighting off carjackers and killing looters, and outright lying about punching out Jesse Ventura because he dared speak ill about his venerated brothers-in-arms, something Ventura got pissed about and sued for defamation. Ventura won the case.

I think it's undeniable that he was an incredibly effective soldier, but the guy seemed a chest-thumping braggart.

>but I honestly asked why this specific person is such a piece of shit in your eyes.

You asked
"So everyone that participates in the military is as bad as you guys seem to think Kyle is?"

Besides, I named him unsympathetic person in the vein of Ethan Edwards or Munny due to his obsession and delirium with the war that he had misguided reasons to go in (again, the moral compass of the film points it out in one of scenes, Kyle's wife that is)

>le smug 20/20 hindsight redditor

Nobody knew Iraq was a crazed sectarian can of worms just waiting to explode. You see, there's this thing about isolated autocratic rogue nations - they're kind of not transparent.

There was no precedent for the Americans to work from and they just figured they be nation building the same way they did with central and south american republics. I'm not saying the war was right but its pretty reddit of you to say "should have watched out for a literal terrorist state to crop up ten years down the line! Oh yeah, lotta bad blood between Sunnis and Shia so make sure to watch out for when Shia's fuck with Sunnis after the war!"

To be fair, Isis is a later thing propped up by arming guerillas by the subsequent administration.

Not to defend Dick Cheney by any means, but if any American is to blame, ISIS is Shillary's doing.

I'm serious.
You "Anti-everything we've been taught to be anti toward because we were raised on tv, the net and we are millennial nu-males" types are really starting to piss me off. You're so predictable.

Movies like that should not be released outside USA.
Well, that is unless they want to make us even more Anti-American.

I loved Clint Eastwood for Gran Torino, I hate him now.

>Nobody knew Iraq was a crazed sectarian can of worms just waiting to explode
It wasn't until America shit the post-Invasion Iraq and left in a horrible shape while running away from there.

The hate he received, even post mortem and in a semi fictional tale of his life, was way beyond what you would give a man for being a braggart.

ISIS officers (at first) were made of Iraq government officials that were dissapointed in how America left Iraq post invasion.

Have you ever been around soldiers? Specifically soldiers who have seen combat? Ever read about soldiers who have been in combat?

It's pretty common for one group to dehumanize the other if their job is to kill them. In fact some would say it's a bit of a requirement to deal with the fact that your job is to kill. And yes, if your job is to shoot people that you perceive to be a threat or that you are ordered to, then "every person he shot was justified".

You can't fucking cherry pick morality cause you didn't like the guy/movie.

>America and Israel arm ISIS xD le false flag le false flag xD

Fuck off with this meme, the harsher reality is that its fucking Saudis and Yemenis financing them and their governments doing fuck all to curb it because they both hate Syria for being alawite shias

>running away
>spent 10 years there
>violence dropped heavily
>"O-Okay, we're gonna leave know... You guys promise to play n-nice?"
>within months of withdrawal erupts into a fucking bloodbath

You know most of the death toll of the Iraq wasn't between Americans and Iraqis. It was between Iraqis and other Iraqis settling scores and revenge killing.

...

The movie was pretty good but my only gripe was that it fell into 80's vietnam territory where it doesn't humanise any of the Iraqis at all. Not saying go all SJW with it but it would have been nice if Clint didn't make the Iraqis feel sorta like mindless zerg just looking to scrap or complete opposite end of the spectrum as hopeless victims waiting to be rescued by Americans.

7.5/10 overall

The problem stems from Kyle being such a polarizing figure. He was an undeniably effective soldier, he's been deified into a figure like Audie Murphy, but his appearances on talk shows and his book became a real dividing point for people. Everyone is in love with the idea of war as this nasty, terrible, morally ambiguous entity that people are dragged into for the sake of defending the values they hold dear and the way of life they and their family has.

But then you have Kyle who was pretty much like:

>Fuck no, war was awesome. I fucking loved shooting people. I don't really give a fuck if sand niggers get shot, even if they're innocent. They couldn't stop me from going back, I signed up as many times as I could. And when I got home? I was doing badass shit, man. Lighting up looters and kicking carjackers asses. And his one time, I was at a bar after going to a funeral for another soldier buddy of mine, God bless him and the USA, and this scruff-faced motherfucker started talking shit about my boys and the USA. So I punched his fucking face in!

Obviously an exaggeration of his character, but it's what he was perceived as in a lot of people's minds. People started thinking of him as someone like the machine gunner in Full Metal Jacket who just fires into the rice paddies while cheering. And if that guy was getting loads of commendations and honor back home, then it must confirm the liberal suspicion that all soldiers are just racist baby-killers.

My personal opinion of the guy is that he was a great soldier, probably a generally good guy in his community, but had a really big mouth.

Don't moralize and spout first-year psychology to me. I have plenty of friends in the Air Force and Marines. If you want to express anger at people over-simplifying a soldier's plight, use the third person and refer to them, not me, you presumptuous cock.

The guy was a dick in real life.

It's a decision you make when you decide to focus on single POV and that POV is a person that says every kill was justified in the film.

I'm moving the goalposts apparently, but you've spent multiple replies not answering the first question that was asked of you.

Good job, "cock".

Probably the most correct post in the thread.

Hipster numales who write for Salon and Slate hate mostly because... he wasn't as eloquent or poetically reflective and didn't suffer any critical existential despair regarding the war, as they expected him to (???)

I feel really awful for his kids too. Imagine some cuck like Seth Rogan making a smug tweet at your dead dad's expense because he killed fanatic terrorists who wouldn't hesitate to behead Rogan on live tv

I don't usually go full on Amurrica but all the backlash regarding the movie really upset me. The guy was a fellow American and you don't hesitate to trash him because he wasn't very nice when he spoke about his job.

This is about film, not about real life Kyle _;

What? I've only posted in this thread two other times:

Take your stupid debate up with someone who actually cares.

They did but the function is much different in the modern world. It's function is mass manipulation. People are brought up to believe that soldiers are honorable which leads them to believe what they're doing is honorable which then lends legitimacy and consent for the government to wage unjust wars. If you criticize these actions you're met with accusations of being unpatriotic or even a traitor. This instantaneous defence mechanism coupled with the war on terror slowly erodes any meaningful public opposition to the war machine and allows for an increase in governmental powers.

>america was justified to invade iraq
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....hahhaahhahahahahahahahahaha

there is something wrong if it blinds your judgement user

You forgot to mention that his reported 2 silver stars and 5 bronze stars was actually 1 silver star and 3 bronze stars. Navy officials and even a former commanding officer commented directly to Kyle that he should fix the error before his book was published.

SEALs don't dispute his heroism in battle, but they did see him being disingenuous and inflating his commendations as dishonorable.

wtf i hate americans now

By creating a fictional account of events. You do realize you're watching a hollywood movie, right?

oh wow color me shocked film is fictional BOOM SHOCK

>dat 360 noscope

>le nobody knew destabilizing a country in the ME would create a void that would be filled by more violent people

Isn't that what the federal government spends billions staffing the CIA and related "experts" on?

>being too stupid to counter an opinion you find offensive that it causes you just write "haha" as a desperate attempt to defend your own ego and not have to confront the possibility that you're not nearly as knowledgeable on things yoi have underdtanding of as you previously believed

90 IQs everybody

reddit begone

>CIA
>reliable
>competent
>helpful
>generally good natured

Also, British intelligence services vouched to the pentagon on the credibility of collected sources claiming that the Iraqi WMD development was nearly complete or had already been completed.