Classical liberal here. Anti-Trump, Anti-Clinton. Question, what makes people feel entitled to political violence? I'm wondering the inherent purpose of protests/demonstrations like those happening now. No, not drawing attention to an issue, but more conceptual. More like exhibiting a type influence over others to get them to believe what you believe. I feel like it's gotten to a point where one side believes they are 100% right in every way, so they feel entitled to get angry/violent. I understand they have an opinion they feel is more concrete than someone else's, but is that really enough to behave the way people behave now? My issue is rational ignorance, and how overwhelmingly most people don't have the capacity to understand every facet about every issue. (Hence my true liberalism, I feel there is no way in hell one person or a small group of people (politicans) could ever understand how society or an economy truly works, thus there is no way for them to effectively centrally plan.) So if these demonstrations are here to sway people, what we are really saying is that some people want others to listen to talking points and not do their own research. Just be ignorantly opinionated. Maybe brainwashing is too strong a word, but considering the dulling of people's minds, I don't find it too extreme. What's next? I'm a pretty peaceful guy, but I am also very critical of everything I hear and read. I like to believe I have some good ideas that others have never heard, which based on personal experience is very true. I have an economics degree, and I have studied it extensively during and after college, so when I bring up points to people that they've never heard, I wonder how they can hold such a strong opinion about the thing we are discussing. Do they ignore the fact that they don't have all the facts? I for one know that I am most certainly not 100% correct, so I don't feel like I would ever have the right to get angry or violent. Thoughts?
Classical liberal here. Anti-Trump, Anti-Clinton. Question, what makes people feel entitled to political violence...
Sorry if reposting is poor form, haha.
your post is too long
I went crosseyed trying to read it. If you aren't going to edit your thoughts, at least add line breaks, fuck.
Sorry man, on a phone.
You sound like a guy I know..
Political dissent needs to happen in any form it can. Whether or not you see the potential value in it is totally a non-issue. And frankly, these opinions have been on the shore of every major political protest. And every time, the proceeding events show that protest does indeed bear fruit.
History ilooks favorably upon the just. Now is the time to pick a side, lest you end up in the insignificant section of our time.
We are stuck with out humanity for the time being... at least that's how I read that. A little depressing to me, but I don't regularly wish to have been born during a different period for no reason. Haha
Our* humanity
Why are you anti-trump?
Give me a good reason besides the fact that he hurt your feelings.
>Classic liberal
>Doesn't understand the concept of revolution
Nice try Russia.
Why are you pro-Trump?
Give me one good reason other than white pride.
Statism. The same reason people are anti-hillary. Both have (would have had) the power to aggress against my individual sovereignty.
Haha, my point is both sides claim on a "revolution" is unfounded due to majority ignorance. Are you under the impression there is legitimate merit?
>Wall
>Jobs
>Pro-American
It's simple really.
And when you're your own country and Russia decides to bomb the fuck out of you and take your land, how are you going to defend yourself?
Leftist revolutionism revolves around overthrowing the bourgeoisie and at the very least expanding rights for workers. And it's well understood that they're not going to hand it over peacefully.
While violence isn't necessary against everyone, it would be against fascist groups, like nazis. and no one who isn't an idiot is condoning violence against anyone you don't agree with.
Do you know what a classical liberal is?
>Wall
Not happening. Immagrents aren't even a significant issue unless you ignore facts and are just a scared baby who needs daddy trump to protect him.
>Jobs
Every president promises that and no one can deliver because that's not how jobs work. Trump can't force companies not to outsource. He's going to replace NAFTA with something even worse.
>Pro-American
Meme
>And when you're your own country and Russia decides to bomb the fuck out of you and take your land, how are you going to defend yourself?
You didn't even address his point and are a proven retard.
The question is, if the revolution is intended to overthrow those in power because they abuse it with their beliefs but replace it with a different faction, but with the same powers none the less, then what's the difference?
Additionally, I think what I'm saying is that we are developing a majority of idiots on both sides, wouldn't you agree?
The point is over overthrow Fascism. It's pretty cut and dry.
If my political cause involves killing a group of people or revoking their rights, I am a Fascist and are part of the group in which revolutionists condone violence.
If I am a conservative and I don't believe the economy should be heavily regulated because I fear government coercion, I am expressing a personal belief that does not harm or take the rights away from anyone.
There is a huge difference between my politics wanting you dead and literally anything else.
(Granted extreme communists would argue that any form of capitalism is a violation of human rights and may condone violence against them, however factoring in extremists is moot)
I think we can agree on that yes. It's especially augmented by the nature of the current political and economic climate.
Now is the time when nationalism takes over and the current establishment becomes universally fascist, or the people take over and we have a socialist/libertarian/etc revolution.
The important thing is the fascists don't win, because that only benefits the fascists. Fascism begets fascism, and even your average neo-nazi today would eventually be stripped of their rights.
You sound like a fencesitter
Maybe it is moot, but over time, won't we see extremism become popular?
cdn0.vox-cdn.com
Forgot the source, but there are some that believe democracy can't last longer than 400 years. Whether that is based on historicals or some theory, I'm not sure. Not to mention, population growth with no representation or geographical growth, which I think hinders the people's voice.
>immagrents arent even a significant issue
how old are you? 15?
I could fabricate some sort of formal/theoretical conceit involving contre-jour and/or overexposed direct lighting, screening or blocking elements inserted between the viewer and the landscape, and the appearance of linguistic signs (that prohibit or proscribe access) as visual phenomena therein (i.e. the transformation of word into image; this is supposed to recapitulate the classic relationship between connotation and denotation in the photo--at the same time as the signs symbolically block physical access to the spaces, their appearance as images visually blocks symbolic access to the spaces, in the sense of being able to find out more about them than what is there on the surface of the photograph. you know, ur old "mute facticity of the image.")--but the real reason is that i'm pissed off at how messed up and inconvenient the infrastructure of this city is for people who don't travel everywhere by car. This is like the pedestrian experience of a space that wasn't designed with pedestrians in mind.
That was my point yes.
Sorry for the confusion, but by extremist I am referring to the authoritarian far right and left. ie nazis on the right and maoists on the left.
And yes, the political climate will likely get more extreme if a demagogue like Trump being is power isn't self evident enough. And the new establishment will either be a fascist regime or libertarian.
Yeah, it's not healthcare, organized crime and gangs, our retarded debt or government corruption. What we really need to worry about is brown people taking jobs nobody wants. The numbers do not show some horrible threat from immigration, even middle eastern terrorists are a non-issue. "But 9/11!" -was over a decade ago and an aberration. Also caused by a president ignoring intelligence services. Sounds familiar.
...
I feel ya. Back when I was a knob and a half of a child, I used to risk my life riding my bike down the highway just to get to the arcade.
Yeah our debts are caused by Jose takin our jerbs and not our endless trillion dollar wars which Trump is ready to perpetuate.
And our crime issues are racial because only the WHITE MAN™ is well educated and has morals, and not caused by systematic oppression of the working class by the neocons selling out our rights to corporations.
He's a charlatan.
42
Why do people automatically associate grapefruit knives with
autism? I have a vast shitstain collection, mostly Asian and
rasin turds which seem to be the main tissues, and I don't
scream the fact that this makes me automatic. I'm a virgo, yes,
but enemas actually make me MORE likely to get flaccid. I have
had countless siezures with cute, cute horses in my stables
about the horsebutts I have smelled I have been able to
freak to women for the first hour because they want to know about my
stupid Prius, or my latest Booboo handled cocaine habit. I dream of
meltinga girl called anus so I can say ''I own a Prius butt I want
a cute anus'', that is when I will lose my fuel injection. But I'm
not automatically acting like a cunt to these piss bottles to use as
often as I can. I have many friends who drink it.
>Jobs
Carrier deal will lead to investment in automation.
American Manufacturing been off-shored going on 30 yrs.
>Wall
Pipedream
>Impeachment
50%+ chance of happening.
>War
His only hope for a second term
OP you should check out Jordan Peterson lectures he posts on YouTube. He has a huge amount of information and knowledge about how totalitarian regimes start no matter what side of the political spectrum. We are going into a pretty interesting time by my guess and it would take me quite a bit of typing to explain my views on the subject.
Agreed.
I just think most of the current climate is self defeating and makes me wonder if this is pre-destined. And then if so, were situations in the past intellectually challenged? Didnt people call eachother hermaphrodites during electionschool a couple hundred years ago? Haha
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Thanks for the advice, I'll check out his videos tonight!
the crime and gangs are niggers and beaners you fucking retard.
if you have a job you probably have healthcare
Trump was the only one who talked about the debt retard
Trump was the only one who talked about government corruption too
All the government jobs are sucking up all the money and the services are absolute shit.
Why the fuck do people insist on trying to have political discussions on Sup Forums? That's one of the most unproductive wastes of time I can readily conceive.
Hell, Sup Forums as a whole is 70% mong at any given time.
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▲ ▲ lel
Also, before this 404's, thanks for discussing!
This retard here is a prime example of how fucking stupid most of Sup Forums is: .
I can't recall which elections circa 1900's it wasn't uncommon for presidents to claim that their opponent was a child rapist and fucked animals.
And yes, every society in history has fallen to some level of fascism due to the wants and needs of very few people.
If you look at the start of any given great war you can attribute it to a dozen or even one person. Even in modern times, you'll see Henry kissinger's name tied to horrific acts that he would have hanged for if he were in the Nuremberg trials.
Fortunately, I believe at some point due to the explosion of communication and accessible information, a libertarian regime will take over. It would be preferential, in my opinion, if it were socialism, but anything to break the cycle would have a dramatically positive impact on the working class.
You're listing the campaign promises of every candidate in any country to ever exist. Congrats on watching your first election. I hope your interest in politics leads you to actually read a book or two.
lol if hes impeached civil war will happen fuck boy.
He is basicly the expert on the subject. There is a lot more information to lol at but he is an excellent start. The current problem started with the Age of Enlightenment and the death of god. Without a moral dogmatic system for society and no god people will turn to nihilism or faith in the state leading to a totalitarian government. This is the lesson of the 20th century.
Nazi Fascism killed 6-15 million and Marxism all totalled killed around 100 million people. The natural state of the world has always been horrific and we are in a brief period of relative peace currently what is not the norm
youtube.com
All you little neocons go down easy.
You are trying way too hard to sound overwhelmingly intelligent and dare I say inherently smart by posting this highly tedious read that could easily be misconstrued as a reposting of the Declaration of Independence and not a retardedly long explanation of how everyone is too opinionated and think that they are 100% correct in their thoughts and then like a total fucking retard you squash your point at the end by bragging about how you're really smart and probably right.
Why do people automatically associate grapefruit knives with
autism? I have a vast shitstain collection, mostly Asian and
rasin turds which seem to be the main tissues, and I don't
scream the fact that this makes me automatic. I'm a virgo, yes,
but enemas actually make me MORE likely to get flaccid. I have
had countless siezures with cute, cute horses in my stables
about the horsebutts I have smelled I have been able to
freak to women for the first hour because they want to know about my
stupid Prius, or my latest Booboo handled cocaine habit. I dream of
meltinga girl called anus so I can say ''I own a Prius butt I want
a cute anus'', that is when I will lose my fuel injection. But I'm
not automatically acting like a cunt to these piss bottles to use as
often as I can. I have many friends who drink it.
You typed a paragraph and said nothing. Do people protest violently because they are morons? Yes. End of discussion.
Sometimes you just gotta punch a fucking Nazi.
Also one of the biggest tools the state uses to manipulate its population is the Hegelian dialectic. They pit groups against each other constantly to keep everyone fighting with each other instead of stopping and focusing their attention on the government and the shitty situation they create for the citizens. This is a fairly simple form of social engineering compared to more sophisticated things being done currently but that's another story
>the crime and gangs are niggers and beaners you fucking retard.
White people cause the most crime if you bother to read statistics.
>if you have a job you probably have healthcare
If you ever had a job you would know that the insurance is typically trash and the entire health care system needs reforming.
Also Trump can't very well "fix jobs" if everyone already has one can he?
>Trump was the only one who talked about the debt retard
Every candidate has talked about the debt since it became an issue. The debt is also not an immediate threat and the spending should be the focal point if you want to resolve the economic crisis.
>Trump was the only one who talked about government corruption too
Yeah lets end corruption between government and CEO's by electing a CEO who's already done things to benefit his own business.
>All the government jobs are sucking up all the money and the services are absolute shit.
The vast, overwhelming majority of government spending is on war. What government official make is a fraction of a fraction of that.
Aw come on. Not bragging. Just saying, if I were talking with an art major about economic theories that they have not yet learned, yet their opinion does not account for those theories, you'd think they'd step back a bit. I've just experienced people not doing that.
trump won on 4 issues,with help of crossover democrats,,blue dogs as they used to be termed
obamacare,it merely transferred coverage,transferring wealth, not it.s stated mission of insuring the previously uninsured,made 5-6k dollar deductibles,people have been pissed about this since 2010
muslim violence course not all but a small percentage of the billion and a half means 35 55,100 million who would be willing to kill all non moozies
immigration
jobs,the economy
quit worrying about your compass location and titular obsession with
classical eggheadizm
My favorite tool of theirs came from the 60's and 70's.
When the CIA and FBI were involved in killing domestic communists, only a few local papers would ever actually report on it.
I believe it was Chomsky who asked a group of reporters from around the country if they knew about the assassination of a Black Panthers member by the FBI, and only a reporter from the state it happened in knew anything about it.
This creates "just enough" mainstream criticism, and creates the illusion that things like this are the exception and not the rule.
This of course can't happen anymore due to the internet and social media, and I think that's part of what will ultimately end Fascism.
White-Pride is all the reason I need. My Race is a minority that is slowing being exterminated through changing demographics. I need no better reason to support a political candidate than white nationalism.
>explain yourself
I dont need to.
You realize communism killed 10 times as many people as the nazi's right? Total blind beleif in any authoritarian political system de humanizes people and makes you mentally able to justify gassing 6 million nazi's in a holocaust 2.0. It's the opposite side of the same coin
Communism isn't inherently authoritarian. The major regimes of it however have been, and none have practiced actual communism.
>Thoughts?
I would like to stick you in a room with 2 computers that have information of thousands of books and articles.
You'd be stuck in this room with a flat earth conspiracy believer.
Neither of you are allowed to leave until both of you either agree the Earth conclusively is flat, round. I really wonder how long it would take you to think political violence is alright in this situation.
Demonstrators/protests =/= political violence.
Protests are key to functioning democracies and the people taking part in them are exercising their rights as voters.
Those who are actually committing violent and mostly undeducted, or afraid. They have no other way of letting their voice by heard so they turn to violence. Sure it's wrong, but many of these people simply don't know what else to do.
Trump is gonna btfo you classical liberals
Freedom is for fags
That's okay, none of the fascists ever practiced actual fascism.
And the capitalists never actually did anything capitalist either.
All those cultures practicing religious fundamentalism aren't real fundamentalists, too. No one actually ever did anything! Reality doesn't provide any useful information!
>fails to comment on nigger and beaner problem
hehe classic Judaism
Now that's shitposting!
Communism fails because it can't wrap its head around the fact calling for any man or social class to have dictatorial powers automatically dooms your nation-state to eventual collapse.
Show me any honest man, yet if that man be given absolute power, he is doomed to become a monster.
Good job defending your point. Well done. You have me convinced.
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Yes. The statistics within communist Russia showed 1 in 3 people were government informants. If you had say a family of 6, two would be informants. Anyone even in their own home with their family's couldn't speak ill of the party. The beleif and indoctrination of the state had children turn in their parents for thought crimes. What does it take to get into that sort of mind set? The nazi fascists were no better and I'm not picking any sides here just to clarify.
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That's what liberals do. They have entire websites dedicated to lots of nothing: Huffington; Salon; CNN...
One man doesn't have power. For one man to have power he would have to own a majority of wealth. Communism is about equally distributing wealth and means of production. The entire point is so that there's no one man with power.
>the Jews did everything
>dark-skinned people are inherently evil
Hello, Sup Forums .
This guy, on the other hand....
I fucking love this guy (no homo).
That's arguement has been used for every communist genocide apologist for years and you can't seriously claim Russia or Maoist china didn't practice "real" communism. What a fuckin cop out. The exact same as "hitler did nothing wrong"
...You've never read the Communist Manifesto, have you? It specifically calls for a "dictatorship of the proletariat".
I'm sure you can work out the inherent problem for yourself from there.
That's what conservatives do. They have entire websites dedicated to lots of nothing: Fox news, Breitbart, Sup Forums...
Nobody taught these kids to actually debate and hold valid constructive conversation. So instead the argue, bicker, and when they realize they're still frustrated because they're too stupid to actually convey their feelings they yell and scream whatever they can to try and be louder than the other person, which then leads to actual fighting
Its like a bunch of chimpanzees. Pretty funny if you ask me.
its easy to tell you're not from Sup Forums when you have to point out the pol board when someone disagrees with you
Yes you do
That's the counter argument to every communist discussion I've ever heard.
It's really not that hard to comprehend that violent dictators appeal to the people by claiming they're something they're not.
No one owned the means of production in russia and china except the government. By definition, not communism.
Protip: the country you live in isn't actually "the greatest country on earth" either even though the government says it is.
That depends on your definition of "working class" and "proletariat", respectively.
VI Lenin was not working class, he was an academic.
Joseph Stalin was the son of a minor Georgian official who dropped out of the priesthood to become a full-time professional asshole.
A member of the Universities, and a reject of the Orthodox clergy....Neither of those sound working class to me. Maybe the Mensheviks did better (oh but wait....they were all fucking exiled or executed! My bad.)?
I have.
What you are referring to is dictatorship of the proletariat. What Marx meant is that the proletariat would be the dominant class, not that the proletariat would require a dictator.
This is also only marxism, and not all communists are marxists regardless.
>you disagree with me, therefore you are not "one of us"!
What seems more important in your statement is that I'm forcibly placed in that room and prevented from leaving....
On the other hand, ideally it would be monitored and lead to some new fake-science vaccine!
>People haven't been saying >>>/otherboard/ for as long as the site has existed
Don't you have school tomorrow?
Real thought I have. Immigration that a wall along mexico would stop would be small 26%. The other 74% comes in from planes. However why would we build a wall? it is said to be to keep people out, but what if its to keep us in? none of you will believe me, but when I was younger, 9 years ago, I had a dream that these demons wanted to kill america, so they build a wall first on the south of the boarder, then to the north. The people had no where to go and they were slaughtered. It might be a weird dream, but I think about it.
>can't unto comprehension
i didn't know you were THAT retarded
Keep fighting the good fight OP, especially in reclaiming the word liberal. I really hate being "libertarian."
America was founded on classical liberal values which grew out of the Enlightenment. The State is doing everything it can to get people to forget this through a system of both public and private education which largely denies them their true history in favor of a revisionist one where the State reigns supreme today and always has. It is literally Ingsoc in practice.
As Lord Acton aptly put it, "liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. It is not for the sake of a good public administration that it is required, but for security in the pursuit of the highest objects of civil society, and of private life."
It doesn't matter if you get one guy to dominate or the entire fucking workforce, m8. Marx clearly meant that the workers would call the shots and the former upperclass would shutup or get shanked.
Congratulations, you've just created your new bourgeoisie. They don't like their old jobs anymore, so they'll be doing a lot of ass-sitting and pontificated like the old lot.
The education system currently used is based off of "outcome based education" developed by the Bolshevik communists. The nazi's perfected it and then George bush decided to implement it in America. You want to see the world change for the better get rid of common core education right now. Going back to a "classic" education system that teaches people how to think and scrutinize what they take in will change people's way of viewing the world and put an end to the crippled minds that are produced today. People used to study the trivium and quadrivium, logic and logical fallacys to understand and filter information to see if it was legitimate and worth intergrating into their understanding of the world.
if you're a cancerfag they have
>unto comprehension
Learn to type.
The current education system sucks ass, you won't get any arguments from me that the old one was better.
>he took da bait
oh fuck i was just bluffing
you really aren't from Sup Forums
Everyone is a prol in communism. bourgs only exist before and during the revolution.
The communist manifesto was basically a pamphlet meant to encourage revolution, and much of it is worded as such. It's hardly the bible of communism. That would be more akin to Das Kapitol, and again, that's only if you're a marxist.
Thats what Im saying. But America doesn't want people to think for themselves. They want workers. They want people to fall in line.
Name another brand of Communism as well-known or as oft-tried. Now you're quibbling over minutia.
The original query was the communism supposedly practiced by Russia and China. That was pretty clearly Marxist.
exactly
The whole philosophy of china and Russia they openly stated was communism. The ideas speak to everyone's sense of caring and wanting the best for their fellow man and can appeal to people's kindness but also don't take into account human nature as proven by the 20th century and governments attempting communism. How many more attempts at true communism need to be forced on people through revolution based on a theory from the 1800's that has killed uncounted millions? There is obviously something unattainable or the theory is wrong or the world would be one communist state and uncountable masses would not have died through all the attempts
Distinguishing between schools of thought is universally valid and important between philosophy, science, and any other means of gaining knowledge.
Being reductionist doesn't prove your point or invalidate mine.
Your entire notion is based on the idea that the people in power ever actually planned on practicing communism. They were dictators. Dictators lie to appeal to the people and gain power.
A true revolution is not authoritarian, and it doesn't even particularly matter if it's a communist revolution or not as long as it's lead by the people.