Thesis: Most pre-20th Century composers would be appalled by the extent to which improvisation has been neglected in the post-20th Century world of art music.
For centuries improvisation was seen as an compulsory area of study and practice for any serious performer or composer.
Austin Robinson
Antithesis: Most pre-20th Century composers would be too distracted by the immense changes in the musical landscape to even give a shit about improvisation.
William Sanders
>improvisation has been neglected in the post-20th Century world of art music
>go to sleep at 4 in the morning >have to wake up at 8, deadbeat >chug coffee all day, have to pee constantly because of it >get home thinking I can finally relax, listen to some classical and chat with the faggots in /classical/ Fuck this, I'm too tired to shitpost in two threads at once. Have some Debbie Sea -- youtube.com/watch?v=2p5lV1i-gWQ
And good night.
Brayden Gonzalez
I agree desu and as a huge fan of classical music I sincerely think that if you were to time travel them to our current time, most of the great composers would be the most interested in jazz.
I'm sure some of them would have some interest in synthesizers and the possibilities of digital music production, but I think they would mostly be attracted to jazz.
Lincoln Thompson
Maybe if they time travelled to the 1950s. They'd barely notice that comatose genre these days.
Gabriel Howard
What jazz albums have you actually heard from the last 10 years?
Jose Richardson
So, is this actually where classical music is at today or is this guy just a fancy ambient producer?
Brody Richardson
so... are the four memes all he has?
Dominic Campbell
Ferneyhough is where classical music is today
Leo Martinez
lookup l'estro armonico
Joseph Morgan
he has the concerto for meme too
Landon White
nah, they would be interesting in contemporary classical music, which incorporates jazz and synthesizers - provided the composer wants to incorporate them.
Owen Ross
As long as the end result is an improvement it's all good
Parker Bennett
Wagner (pic unrelated)
Jacob Gomez
post harpsichord stuff
Michael Baker
>field writes nocturne >chopin also writes nocturne >"chopin copied john field!" >prokofiev copied haydn with his symphonies!
What recording of Wagner's Ring should I listen to?
Brandon Martinez
So I'm listening to Carmen... Once the meme tunes are over, it's pretty fucking boring.
Who invented this opera nonsense anyway?
Andrew Fisher
beethoven was right; opera as a form just overly limits musical expression.
I don't think there are many operas with actually interesting music, because the music isn't the centrepiece, it's just there to add to the drama and theatrics.
Blake Perry
So what's your favourite song and why is it Overture von Egmont
Isaac Price
beethoven only said that because his one attempt at an opera was a complete failure
also, no one listens to Mozart operas for the plot lol
Matthew Smith
solti ofc :^)
Parker Roberts
>listening to Mahler's 5th >ask myself "when is the drop?" >drop comes >"fuaaaaaaaaargh" Why did no one warn me of this
Most people, myself included, regard Berman's 1958 Melodiya set as the best, although all of his various performances of them are generally a cut above the rest.
Trifonov's most recent recording of them as well as his recital in Lyon are pretty jaw dropping. Ovchinnikov, Bolet, and Cziffra also had great sets.
Are these considered good by modern classical standards?
Adrian Perez
what do you think?
Xavier Williams
I don't like it, but I'm a pleb.
Jack Roberts
recommended recording of Gazza Ladra?
Hunter Rogers
key mashing garbage
Luis Kelly
Finnissy is good. haven't listened to the other one.
They're considered good by modern academic standards. There is somewhat of a divide between those who write complex serial music and those who write simple tonal music. Then there are those in the middleground.
In general, I don't think there's a lot of good contemporary solo piano music. An unprepared piano has a very rigid timbre and most interesting contemporary composers place a lot of importance on musical texture.
>avoid anyone that holds an academic position Composers have held "academic" positions - those of teaching paid for by an institution - for all time. Its just a day job. Many composers who have academic positions don't prescribe to what is generally considered "academic" music - serialism, spectralism, live electronics, non-tonal music, etc.
>serialism. Not that it was ever good That's your opinion. For most of us that just shows you have very limited taste.
>focuses on the non-acoustic aspects of a performance. This includes undue focus to notation (e.g. the "New Complexity" fad New complexity is entirely about acoustics though. The score is merely the means to an ends - which is a performer playing in an acoustic space, just like most classical music.
Maybe learn a bit about what you're discussing before commenting on it?
The piece you posted is 'in memoriam of Gerard Grisey', who held many academic positions. Hurel himself teaches at a conservatory in Lyon, as well as having been in other academic positions.
The best composers are the ones who are the most learned, and in our time that means going through conservatories and universities. Teaching at them as a day job is a logical choice for a composer.
>uses the word patrician >doesn't know what he's talking about its like we have a new CLT here
Aaron Edwards
Only four things: 1. You're arguing semantics. 2. For all your arguing semantics you apparently don't have a good grasp on the meaning of "rule of thumb" 3. "New Complexity" revolves almost entirely around bullshit overcomplicated notation. 4. You have shit taste.
Wow.. they all suck... Really makes you think huh.
Luke Lopez
>not playing them all at once you're listening to it wrong
Dominic Bennett
>New Complexity" revolves almost entirely around bullshit overcomplicated notation. confirmed for having no idea about what new complexity is and what it aims to do.
>You have shit taste. name calling, very mature.
You don't really provide any actual counter-arguments, and seeing as you're in the sweet spot at the far left of the Dunning-Kruger graph, where experience is 0 and confidence is 100%, I'll just leave you to your shitposting. At least it will be amusing.
>cherry picking That's crop burning all right. Hopefully none of the lurkers end up thinking that scraping the bottom of the barrel is representative of anything.
Austin Allen
>plebs arguing about how atonal music is shit, meanwhile you're just sitting here chillin
Camden Hughes
There are plenty of works from "New Charlatanism" composers that are literally, LITERALLY *impossible* to play. Your post is the epitome of irony.
(Don't even dare use the cheap retort that some bars in Beethoven were impossible to play on the instruments of his time.)
Jose Anderson
>t. delusional dupe
Camden White
Ever since equal temperament came around, what's the point of using one key over another?
Evan Flores
reminder that you're only as good as your Scherzo
Samuel Myers
Nice piggybacking. Next you're going to tell me that atonal music is good because Stravinsky wrote some when he was grasping for some relevance in old age because Le Sacre du printemps and L'Oiseau de feu are masterpieces.
Alexander Foster
*composes a piano concerto* >5 min later *composes another one*
Zachary Young
My personal ethos is that, many songs, especially that use guitar, rely on a handful of very very common keys. Things like E, A, G, C, etc, particularly the ones that are easy to play on guitar. Westerner's brains are accustomed to hearing these keys and not so much the other ones, so I base my decisions on that. If I want a more alien sounding song I go for a less common key.
Another thing is if I'm making an album I base the songs key's on the last song, so it forms kind of a chord progression over the songs. I think that's another good way to pick them. Hell if you had a song which was kind of intro to another, it could be good to pick a key that would otherwise be a 5th of the first songs key. Just tossing ideas around.
Brandon Hughes
Different pitches still have different timbres on some instruments. Music isn't played exclusively on the keyboard. Also, even in orchestral music, equally tempered tuning is not strictly followed where there is room for variation. See for example any violin concerto where most solos are played in a mixture of equal temperament, mean and just intonation.
Nicholas White
I always love angst-driven responses like yours; they always end up making very strange conclusions.
Relax, boyo. You don't like atonal music, that's well good. Just chill, though.
Take it slow and easy, like Celi.
Alexander Perez
*composes a violin concerto* >5 seconds later *composes the same violin concerto* >each one are better than any of Mozart's
David Turner
speaking of Menuhun, there's a conversation between him and Karajan and it's honestly one of the most awkward things i've seen. Karajan refuses to look at him in the eye for longer than a second and he's stuttering and obviously extremely nervous
never pegged Karajan for such a turbo autist desu
Jaxson Morales
Baroquefags everyone.
Lincoln Ortiz
Rumour has it that Karajan was antisemitic so he he didn't like oven dodgers.
Wyatt Bell
>hurr t. you
Jackson Gray
Thielemann is his successor in that regard
Blake Smith
There's also the fact that some note sequences are easier to play in certain keys. Fingering and all that.
Jeremiah Diaz
Too bad he's a shitty conductor
Carter Williams
I just realised something: you're a leech aren't you? What bullshit course do you teach? God, music and art departments at universities in general really do need to be defunded, don't they? Some of my saddest memories from college are chatting with a bunch of Conservatoire students who ate at our cafeteria because it was cheaper. Two thirds of them had the "one thousand yards stare" and the other third made the most depressing self-deprecating jokes imaginable.
Academia in general seems to select for the most despicable people (it is why I quit grad school after all). If you are a college professor, know that this is coming from the bottom of my heart:
kill yourself.
Dominic Flores
Scriabin: C# -- Purple F# -- Bright Blue/Violet B -- Blue E -- Sky Blue A -- Green D -- Yellow G -- Orange C -- Red F -- Deep Red Bb -- Rose/Steel Eb -- Flesh Ab -- Violet
Rimsky-Korsakov: C Major -- White D major -- Yellow G Major -- Brownish-gold A Major -- Rosy E Major -- Sapphire Blue Eb Major - Blueish-grey B Major -- Dark Blue F# Major -- Greyish-green Db Major -- Dusky Ab Major -- Greyish-violet E Major -- Green
Who got it right?
Elijah Sullivan
Stand back plebs A: Major light blue, minor blue Ab: Major royal blue, minor black B: Major light red, minor rose red Bb: Major red, minor dark red C: Major white, Minor blue C#: Major bright yellow, minor brownish yellow (Db major is orange) D: Major yellow, minor brown E: Major light green, minor brownish green Eb: major rich green, minor dark green F: Major red, minor really dark red almost black F#: major really light red almost pink, minor red G: Major light green, minor dark green
Went to a pretty decent Renaissance vocal music concert tonight, 16 part choir in a cathedral, playing lots of Tallis, Victoria, Lobo, Tomkins, and some more Baroque era Watts and Lotti. Pretty nice concert. Cool to hear a section of Victoria's requiem in the flesh.
New complexity is about the score (and performance) as an area of struggle. Having "impossible" passages and misleading instructions is part of the struggle. Yes some parts might be physically impossible, but its that attempting to play the impossible that New complexity composers are interested in, and challenging players (and listeners) with every play-through.
In the orchestra certain keys accentuate certain timbres and certain open strings. Keys still influence certain aspects of pieces, and composers still make use of them.
Nope, I don't work in an academic music position.
Joseph Mitchell
>dude playing fast means it's good lmao
Jace Long
>tfw I agreed to sing the 2nd tenor line in Victoria's requiem thinking that it was more like a "baritone" line >it's just another tenor line whoops
