I am thinking about joining the Democratic Socialist Party

I am thinking about joining the Democratic Socialist Party.

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well do it and fuck off

Was hoping for a little bit more insight than that my friend

Do you still believe in democracy after you had to pick between corrupted Hillary and somewhat stupid Trump?

Do you believe in socialism after the fall of USSR and the collapse of nordic social democracies?

Government is the problem and not the solution.

I think if socialism is applied correctly it could give normal Americans a voice

The reason hillary was corrupted was because of the corporations that paid for her; and the reason trump sucks is because he got rich in the same way the corporate ceos did.

Government is the problem because it's owned by corporations - socialism is the solution because it reverses that.

Stop this liberal reformist bullshit. Read Marx and join a real party.

You know what would be great? Coming up with your own original ideology instead of being stuffed to the brim with someone else's thoughts like 99.9% of America and because we did not actually reason our belief systems out ourselves, our primary mode of thinking is emotional. For how far we've come, we sure are fucking stupid. Just because you identify with a certain group doesn't mean you have to be or are aligned with every element inherent therein. I just hope you learn to think for yourself.

Democratic socialism has nothing to do with Marx and by the way that also begs the question what do you classify as a real party

You know that the fist+rose is the logo of spanish policital party named PSOE? It WAS a leftish party years ago, now it is pro-monarchy, pro-religion, pro-monopoly, pro-conservadurism and a large etc that makes them not socialism at all

Thinking that 'Democratic Socialism' could somehow 'save' the us by providing free stuff while keeping the rest of the political and economic system intact is bullshit. I assume that you are critical of capitalism so why not read the original critical analysis of it? (i.e. Capital vol. 1-3 by Marx)

Is like PP

which country?

Fuck off, Pdr Snchz susana te crujio

Democratic socialism is a parasitic mindset that rewards the entitled and lazy.

It brings upon crazy high taxes to the general population and regulations to businesses that especially hurt small businesses and harm innovation.

Socialism tells us that subsidising in government programs and government funded business is the way to go while almost always the money is frivolously wasted due to guaranteed income from taxpayer money. It's been proven time and time over that when private businesses compete against government businesses, the private businesses succeed because of the motivation to serve the customer and receive profits.

Capitalism on the other hand is altruistic. It involves consentual transactions that help better society. It tells us that if we provide a service or product that is available with demand, we will all benefit.

It tells us that we can compete with other business in the job market so that people will want to work at the most competitively priced job. If the business is making a profit, the market is telling them that they're doing a service to society.

>collapse of nordic social democracies
I must have missed that on the news.

look OP, this is a faggot move.
1. if you are from Europe, all of the Socialist Parties in EU are corrupted arseholes. they want to control your money not to help you.
2. if you are from USA. their Socialist are plain and stupid faggots. they are part of the Democratic Party and the democrats are using them only for protests and like a vote mass. nothing more. they are treating the USA commies like animals. and now they want to trow them against Trump. that's all.
if I was a USA commie member, I will say hillary to go to hell. not helping the democrats.

>Normal americans
kek

That's not socialism. That's capitalism with more taxes.

The collapse of nordic social democracy has been gong on since the 80s. The countries have not collapsed, but the idea of social democracy has certainly.

Have you ever asked yourself why all the socialist advocates are millennials?

Hey OP. What country are you in? I've been a member of the UK Labour party since 2010. If Britbong I'll answer any questions you have.

USA

Ah, sorry, in that case I'm not best placed to advise. Best of luck all the same, comrade. Keep fighting the good fight.

what's it like having rich parents?

For a moment I thought this was a thread about PSOE

on a basic level

youre allying yourself with lefites, who love immigration
how do you fund the ever expanding welfare state? the # of dependents will continue to rise

>Labour
>Comrade

socialism bloats the government up to a size where literally everyone depends on it.

if youre worried about corruption then absolute power should worry you more

"If socialists would just buy my bourgeoisie economic theories they wouldn't be socialists"

Why not do the last point on there? Prisons seem like a reasonable place for profitable slave labor.

Trump is already planning his new internet plan which will bar you from a shit ton of websites, including this one.. Oh and the gov is now legally allowed to spy on your internet activity. It's time for a vpn traineddog.club

Nice deflection

hey, a shitty strawman argument like yours doesn't deserve a reasoned response feggit.

Yeah and then you get a shit economy in the best case scenario

I am from Spain, we intended all of this now unemployment is 20% and pensions are being cut every year

If you really want to respond, respond to

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If you swap socialism with capitalism if your Thatcher quote you actually get a short summary of Marx ideas about the instability of capitalism and it's tendency towards crises. How ironic.

Well if socialism is so great, it is not forbidden that socialists unite and buy common land and establish a socialist community. Why don´t they do it?

They simply don't do it because it is so inefficient that you need to steal from actual productive people for it to have a change of working.

In other words, you need your socialist society to run on other people's money

That is why socialist societies become authoritarian. The more socialist, the more authoritarian. Check what happened in Venezuela.

What's wrong with that?

It's not uncommon for Labour party members to call each other comrade. Especially trade union members.

...

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Cuba vs Singapore

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1984

So you say no free health care and no free education?

That's what sanctions do to you.

...

The irony continues. The bourgeoisie parasitising on those who produce is exactly what Marx warned us about!

nice bait.
have fun with your cuck government

>we wouldn't allow cops to wage war on the poor
So basicly you would allow niggers and mudslimes to rape and kill in the name of their religion and muh freedoms just because they live in slums and contribute nothing to the society therefore staying poor?

The majority of those who that led SD movements were spoiled ass upper middle class, and rich kids. They only became these we are for the little peoples types when it was their turn to earn a living.
Also the only ones who do prosper are the leaders, and their cronies. It is crony capitalism at its finest. Only the working class suffer under it.

>Give everyone a living wage

Well that basically breaks apart the foundation of our prosperity which is the labour division.

We all work in things other people value so they will give us monetary value and we can then purchase the things we want from others.

If you give people a guaranteed living wage maybe they will keep doing things. Yes, but things they enjoy, not what others enjoy.

Maybe a failed artist who had to go to an assembly line for cars if he had a guaranteed wage he would just write poetry.

And it is fine but I want to buy a car, not his poetry. And what if he wanted to buy shoes and myself, instead of making shoes I decide to cultivate bonsais?

In the end we end up with a society that produces things nobody wants and then the things people need are not produced, like is the case in Venezuela.

Do it. They're good stuff. Also join antifas if you can. Nazis gave up their humanity, so it's good to punch them.

Except social programs aren't socialism. It can (and does) exist in capitalist societies. Many social programs exist in the US.

It's a slight of hand trick played that entices ignorant millennials to subscribe to socialism.

>Not arguing in favour of abolition of the wage system

My sweet summer child.

Ah yes, the backwater of Sweden. That country that is consistently better than the USA in every category.

>Posting Ayn Ran

Wew lad.

Well god created Venezuela to show that sanctions are not the reason

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Well you work for your boss because he pays you a salary and it is in your interest

You and I are probably pretty similar in our views user, but I think right now the best thing we could possibly do is usurp the Democratic Party, starting at the local level. It worked great for the Tea Partiers. I mean fuck them but it was a good plan of action and we can learn from it.

>Well you don't revolt against your owner because he can starve you to death any time he chooses and it is in your interest

Capitalism - the ideology of cucks.

...

If socialists all had rich parents, they wouldn't be socialists.

Also, socialism gives for granted that I give a fuck for somebody who lives 1000km away from me instead of myself and my family

I would rather spend every single tax that goes onto redistribution and welfare to myself and my family because I just don't give a damn of people I don't know and never will.

And if you stop and think, there is a lot of brainwash to make you think you should care.

You have the freedom to choose where you want to work in a competitively priced job market.

No one likes Thatcher. She was a warmonger, who could only orgasm by shitting on homeless children. She also doesn't understand socialism.

Well go ahead and live alone yourself in the mountains hunting.

But from the moment you want a can of tuna, there has to be a fisherman, an assembly line, a truck driver... All of them working for you. And they don't give a fuck about you, you need to provide some sort of employment or value in order to be entitled to other's time and effort.

That is how it works.

Your boss does not starve you to death. If you were to lose your job and starve to death means you are too useless to do anything on your own, so you should be kissing your boss' shoes for employing you

Ah yes, the "iphones made in capitalism" argument. After all, how could anyone want to progress beyond feudalism when feudalism gave you all that neat plowing tech, or how monarchy gave you that cool coal powered boat.

Aww honey, it's sweet that you believe that.

Or if you think you "add more value" than what anybody is willing to pay you, you can just offer consultancy services or be an entrepreneur

People complaining they "don't get paid enough" but refuse to work on their own is losers not accepting that the market value of what they do is what it is.

Cuba actually had it's quality of life skyrocket since communism. I can take any two pictures from anywhere in cuba and compare them. It's not an argument.Think for a second. We have actual measures of success beyond "Look I found 2 pictures on the internet".

It is exactly like that.

The more your skills are demanded, the better paid you get

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time finding a job being an Art Historian. Maybe the demand just isn't there

>There won't be cans of tuna under Socialism
>That is how it works

Jesus fucking wept. I'd accuse you of trolling but you're clearly retarded.

That large class is millionaires. They don't work. Most of them were born rich and will be rich because they were born rich and things are easy for them. Fuck the parasites.

I dont know much of USA politics, and by the looks of most post you're still pretty afraid of commies.

Dont mix that with social democrats.
If you look at countries like scandanavian you can see that a social influance can be good.

Additionally in most countries politics are like a scale, where you can never reach the complete left or right because you always have an opposition (and thus its a game of give and take). So going for an socialist party will not turn you country into a communist shithole, but most likely will give it a direction to go.

How frickin delusional. The boss does not need you. He can replace you, because people with that attitude are unproductive, they can find someone who appreciates having a job. You need the boss to pay you so you can buy those things you want, and need. Otherwise you may as well go and try to live off the land. But since you thing everything is owed to you, you would most likely starve, because it requires hard work.

>I work at Walmart and expect the same income as professionals

I'd rather that the government have as little to do over our lives as necessary.

Skills demanded under a Capitalist system determine how much you get paid.
Socialism doesn't mean taking money from people who work and giving it to people who don't. You're thinking of Capitalism.

Look at the chart. It is measured in % of USA GDP.

Cuba is the only country that went backwards.

Before communism Cuba could be compared to Italy.

Now it compares to Dominican Republic

Guys every fucking time socialism is applied fails miserably. Why being so denial about reality?

You are not an island, no matter how badly you want to be one.

Why can't the workers just run the workplace without the boss?

Professional what, footballers, landlords, (((CEO's)))?

Ask the Venezuelans if there are many cans of tuna, and we are talking about the country with the largest oil reserves in the world

what planet do you live on where this is happening? You're living in a fever dream.

Socialism means exactly that. Means that it is not the value that you bring in that determines what you get but an arbitrary decision by a central planner (government)

Communism is a failed and dead idealogy. Also those goals wpuld only work in a utopia which means youre a cunt.

LOL! The Scumdanavian argument. Not noticing that US major cities have a larger population that that shithole area.

Capitalism= work for yourself as (most likely) a wage slave for most of your adult life but still have REALLY COOL STUFF to distract you from your own misery of getting cucked by the top 1%

Socialism= be a parasite to productive members of society and slowly wither away

Your pick Sup Forums

where would the money come from. nothing is free. unless you are willing to work for free, no one else is either. and there will always be someone that does absolutely nothing and gets a free ride. that crashes the system right out of the gate. sorry, it sounds good to children that have never lived in the real world, but it don't work.

>sanders
>democrat sellout to shillary
no, thank you. He is a scumbag that used the money people gave to his campaign to promote shillary's campaign.

Well cooperative entreprises are not forbidden. They simply disappear because they are not competitive.

Who decides the wages? Who controls the costs? Who is responsible for deicisions?

It simply does not work. You need somebody in charge who has finance knowledge and knows what the fuck he is doing

Because every worker thinks they should be the boss, so nothing gets done, and then nobody makes the money.
Also I must ask how much of your money are you willing to put into that business? How much of the money that started that business did you put in?

The top 1% is not taking anything away from me because they don't have any authority on me.

If I make them more rich is by buying smartphones, clothing or the things their entreprises produce. I do it voluntarily.

The only money that is taken away without my permission is what the Government takes away.

And socialism gives more power to the Government.

>China

Your point?

Ok well the American people fuck themselves at that point people are stupid and greedy

Social welfare in South Africa sure worked great in 1994 when Mandela took power; where it turned in to a welfare state. Every worker ended paying for 4 people's pension.

Last I checked, the currency conversion rate to the USD was something like R13.50 (13 rand 50 cents) to the US dollar. It was half that less than 5 years ago.