This is one of the best satires of all time as well as one of the most misunderstood movies of all time

This is one of the best satires of all time as well as one of the most misunderstood movies of all time.

Discuss

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It's funny because the movie was intended to be insulting to nationalism and totalitarianism but instead it showed a perfect society where toxic leftists couldn't pollute society with their poison.

>It's funny because the movie was intended to be insulting to nationalism
I dont think so. I think the book was but the movie wasnt. Good shit though. Its a shame they never made more

Naa the book was more on the morality or war, it was good because it wasn't filled with bullshit pacifist "MAKE LOVE NOT WAR" rubbish that you'd expect from books about war itself rather than actual battles.

Although the beginning battle in the book was pretty sweet.

The funniest thing is that even though it's satire, the whole fascist, military government where you have to earn your rights is something I believe in.

>I think the book was but the movie wasnt.

its the only scifi book on westpoints reading list

In the book, iirc Razcak asks why should anyone who is not willing to put his own mortal body between the enemy and his country be allowed to make an decision on how it's governed.

Stuck with me desu. The film seemed to be more about BTFOing bug scum rather than anything else desu

>Have to jump in the literal meat-grinder of war where thousands of people die due to shitty tactics and weaponry just to earn citizenship
>Perfect society

That's not canon, Mobile Infantry in the book are fucking hardcore motherfuckers who will rip right through everything.

Even when dealing with the bugs they had good tactics

It makes sense, privileges have to be earned not handed to you. You didn't "HAVE" to join the army to become a citizen, but it was probably the easiest way.

there's nothing to discuss, pretty much everyone on here knows this already

this same "discussion" seems to pop up every couple of weeks

In the movie their tactics are laughably fucking bad. I'm no war theorist by any means but even I know that you should have air support when fighting a ground enemy

REMEMBER YOUR TRAINING AND YOU WILL MAKE IT BACK ALIVE.

I agree, seemed reminiscent of world war 1 full retard mode tactics. However it IS movie exclusive

>why should anyone who is not willing to put his own mortal body between the enemy and his country be allowed to make an decision on how it's governed

lel I didn't know we were playing spot the teenager

Only ever watched the film but loved it, even the B films are fun.

Are the books a must read?

I'm not a teenager I'm 12 so suck your moms dick fag

Beautiful digits

>solar system moves constantly in space right into supermassive Black Hole at 22-25 km per second
>Arachnids shoots a meteor towards the Earth and hit it

How did they do that?

False flag

>solar system moves constantly in space right into supermassive Black Hole at 22-25 km per second
i-.. is this true, user?
I'm scared now

the so-called "satire" just shows in fact how smug the liberal is, the emptiness of the slacker soul of the commiefornian champagn socialist :

>wow just look at these stupid beautiful people who wants to defend their civilization to the death, how dumb man

but yes, it's in fact much more better if you take it seriously, btw this society has women empowered, and different races... 2010's SJW leftist would have emphasized more on the racial baiting and the feminism, leftists were a tad less degenerate in the 90s

I don't think it was bad tactics, it was bad intel. As soon as they had the lay of the land, shit turned around pretty fast.

They had good math.

It's trillions light years away, m8.

In addition, since we're not on a direct collision course, we're just bound to orbit it forever, never actually hitting it.

It's obvious and schlocky. It's a fun movie and the joke works but it's hardly one of "the best satires." Not only is the presentation pretty transparent, the whole thing is basically "ur hitler."

>No air support, no armor, no artillery, grenades but seemingly no-one uses them ever, just a line of morons firing their weapons, no surveying the area with scanning equipment or sending a few scout regiments or whatever, just going in blind
How is that not absolutely shit tactics?

That was kind of the point though, make combat the easiest way to attain the right to vote and the like makes sure only those who believe in warlike situations has the right the vote. It was an easy way to make sure only certain views were voted for. It's brilliant, but it's no democracy.

I can't tell if this thread is filled with ironically bad right wing opinions or if Sup Forums is actually filled with this many mouth-breathing retards

>I'm retarded

That's not Josie and the pussycats.

about the closest you'll ever get to a 40k movie

first day?

In the book, if I remember correctly,the majority aren't assigned to direct combat positions, and I think you can get citizenship through other dangerous civil services.

>Muh Sup Forums was always far-right
>First day? xD
You're trying so fucking hard to fit in yet it's obvious you're a newfag

They had air support, it just got demolished immediately because they thought those plasma shooting bugs were harmless, they also thought they could outnumber the enemy, but most of the soldiers were straight out of basic training so they weren't as effective. And to be fair yes it was kinda like world war 1, but just like WW1 they had never fought a war like that before, they didn't know how to adapt to that type of battlefield. So you had several generals just swap out because they were just throwing darts at a board to see what stuck.

It was intentional, the Government needed the first wave to be BTFO so that they could claim that the planet would be too costly to invade, and in the interest of preserving military lives, they would have to nuke it. Of course the writer of the film overlooked that they would have just nuked it from space anyway, then send Mob Inf to mop up so that they could take resources back to earth.

This isn't tumblr.

Doesn't have to be part of the military in order to give the right to vote though

In the book they state that there are thousands of safe jobs that has nothing to do with the military you can join and get the right to vote after. It's more or less about proving that you care enough about the current government that you are willing to put time and effort to it.

The mobile infantry is just where the gung-ho retards choose to join.

ah fuck off bitch. ask me anything from the last 6 years. you won't though because you're too new.

Only newfags use the word newfag, back to plebbit or whatever shithole you came from.

>The mobile infantry is just where the gung-ho retards choose to join.

Didn't Rico choose everywhere BUT the Mobile Infantry?

Which is weird because they are basically ODST's

>This isn't tumblr.
It isn't Stormfront either. Sup Forums was always apolitical before Sup Forumstards from Stormfront and r/The_Donald came shitting this place up

It's criminal how good that movie is. I could rewatch that movie forever and not get bored.

I never read the books, I'm judging things mostly by the movie. It's one of my favorite scifi flicks out there because it's smart, as well as goofy. I just find it silly that anyone could consider what was shown in the film as a perfect society.

>Only newfags use the word newfag
This is a new one

I don't think anyone who sais that means it, but it was a society that made sense. You would easily understand how it worked.

shutup stupid, Sup Forums has been here since 2010 when it was /new/.

Does anybody ITT actual know anything about Paul Verhoeven? He's no hippie but he doesn't approve of war either so he kind of went both ways. He portrayed war as a whole bunch of people being riled up into throwing their lives away according to the whims of a bunch of out of touch sociopaths but at the same time is light-hearted about the whole thing and aiming to entertain. I don't think his politics sway strongly to either side of the retarded american 'left and right' system since he's European and also a legitimate Christian scholar. His views are probably far too complex to be gauged solely using this one movie out of several that he made.

I'd say that the movie is anti-war but also extremely sympathetic towards its cast without devolving into pity and lamentation. Instead he makes his point by portraying them as foolhardy and naive, which I think hits a lot harder. These guys have all the pep and enthusiasm of a high-school comedy football team + cheerleaders so seeing them get mauled by alien monsters is fucking brutal and pretty much impossible to forget.

>Sup Forums was always apolitical before Sup Forums

It used to lean to the left if anything.
Although we had Bush in office and conservative nutjobs trying to take our movies and games instead of sjws back then.

>muh sweet arachnids dindu nuffin !
>it's all fascists white men's fault, Arachnids live matter !

Counter leftists satire when ? obviously never in commiwood.

Pretty much, the fact that this thread immediately got divided into two political boxes shows how much most amerifags know about political complexities.

It was always Sup Forums, you stupid nigger. Stop baiting people. (You)

>It's a "people on Sup Forums taking the satire of fascism in SS troopers seriously" thread

Is this seriously the objection you think is being made? Are Americans really just fucking incapable of nuance?

>Muh book
this is Sup Forums, not /lit/

Rico picked all cool combat specializations like starship pilot etc., MI was the last on his list. And even though MI are the lowest grunts compared to other more glamorous specializations, they are still top elite, most of people probably doesn't qualify and ends up digging tunnels in Antarctica.

Verhoeven kept a decent amount of Heinlein's actual borderline-fascist politics in the movie relatively untouched though. Mr Dubois' points in the classroom are delivered pretty much the same as in the novel.

>it's a butthurt SJW posting the latest propaganda from reddit post

>It's a Sup Forums thinks you're either a Stormfag or SJW because there's no middle ground episode

If I recall, he didn't have the grades and portfolio to join the research corp like his friend nor the navy like his crush. And he's still impassioned by his teacher who's an ex-mobile infantry. Before he signed the papers and everything, they even have him talk to a crippled vet to make him understand what he's getting into.

Do you think Sup Forums could see something counter leftist without assuming it was the most extreme for of leftist agenda out there?

>it's a liberal who claims to be an "enlightened" neutral fence sitter because he's too embarrassed to admit his ideological peers are fucking retards series

Too bad I'm not american, so GTFO to reddit, eurofag and your fedora nuance

whatever your intellectual jerking off might be about it, it's heavily "anti war", which is a very stupid and naive left-wing stance, it just so happens we're seeing the very result of that right now in Europe : candles and kisses against islamic terrorism

When have I given you the impression I won't admit my "ideological peers" are retards? I just won't toe an ideological line and recognize both sides as extreme
Why can't you just recognize that some people are just simply moderate? You can't define everyone as either a stormfag straight out of Sup Forums or an SJW. There are middle grounds

(You)'re so fucking stupid. You just see the most shallow interpretation and then dismiss it without investigating further.

Because you aren't a moderate, you're a butthurt liberal masquerading as one.

Moderates don't get offended and post SJW image macros they found on Reddit when they see Starship Trooper threads on Sup Forums.

You could share the right to vote with millions of perpetually unemployed, illiterates with IQ's under 85. The notion of having other requirements to voting eligibility other than being over 18 is juvenile to you?
youtube.com/watch?v=kI9c_Cm0WiQ

I didn't post that image.

Offended? That's rich. Your ilk is the most triggered people on this board.

>le leftist intellectual/moral superiority complex meme

your so-called "nuance" won't save you against arachnids, eurofag

Truthfully? Yes, as soon as you start policing what sort of people can vote it becomes false democracy. It removes any opposition to the norm. That's not good, it just results in stagnation.

"Microaggressions" are a leftist term, something you seem to be suffering right now. You're convincing no one that you are actually moderate.

By the way, that image doesn't prove anything and you're obviously trying to do damage control to hide your hurt butt. I recommend you just leave the thread before you get angrier.

your ilk invented trigger warnings because that's what you actually believe, faaaagot.

How very nat soc of you.

You're born with unalienable rights.

I'm not an American liberal so no, my ilk didn't invent trigger warnings. I'm not even considered a liberal in my country, I'm considered moderate-right.

>false democracy

Thank God America is a Republic amiright?

Seriously, fuck mob rule, why does everybody meme about countries being Democracies?

stagnation is letting the bottom 51% of society treat a nation like a fat teat to suckle at until there's nothing left, and then you get fucking rolled by a stronger foreign nation where they definitely do not let even their bottom 90% have any say

'true democracy' was never possible to begin with, and votes only work when they're given exclusively to land owners, or people who served in the military or both

>I'm not an American

Funny how it's always the third worlders who get assmad so easily on Sup Forums.

>Yes, as soon as you start policing what sort of people can vote it becomes false democracy.
>as soon as you start
Good, so you'd be ok with convicted felons voting, resident aliens, people on tourist visas?

I'm a western european, not a third-worlder you ameriturd retard

who cares what you're considered, you smack of cuckoldry and failure.

>western european

So a third worlder. I'm surprised you haven't been murdered by a migrant already.

Top fucking kek. Haven't you got a mass shooting to get killed at or some blacks or latinos to get shanked by?

i smell italy or ireland. you're another butthurt leprechaun aren't you.

You mean like the mass shooting that happened less than 24 hours ago in Munich?

I thought you guys banned guns in the majority of your third world shitholes. How'd that happen??

So did no one else get that humans were trying their damnedest to be like the bugs?

I am too, but your heavy anti-americanism reveals your leftism.

>moderate right

yes we know you, that is to say the exact ones pandering more and more to the left and islam

Basically you're a cuck.

Then I've mislabeled myself. I'm heavily against Islam and immigration and I oppose third-wave feminism and trigger warnings and feminist theories and such

just say what shithole you're from so we can write you off. it's italy isn't it.

But those are right-wing positions, especially in America.

In Europe that's considered FAR right. Hardly moderate.

nay, I like it because it still holds up to this day despite a few shitty CGI here and there, it was ballsy on gore back then and it has great action. But you can't call it effective satire. It's not deep, thought provoking or anything. It's "just" a fabulous action movie.

Whatever. Aside from that I'm pretty much a liberal. Homosexual rights, I'm an atheist, for weed legalization etc. This is why I think these labels are so fucking stupid, because toeing an ideological line is stupid because there are good aspects of both conservatism and liberalism

Why should the country govern me if I don't get a say? Why should I follow a social and legal contract if I'm not allowed any input on it unless I'm willing to sell my body and time to the goverment? That's extortion.

Be entire movie even satirizes itself, the entire thing is one giant propaganda film if you're paying attention

Leftist and right-wing both crave attention and a sense of power

The difference is leftists hide behind weaklings, freaks and undesirables (minorities, ugly people, gays, trannies etc) in order to create their identity

whereas right wingers stand for what's beautiful and strong (family, health, purity, pride etc)

>Exclusively asking what your country can do for you.
You must come from a country with no government involvement in healthcare, law enforcement, education.......

>Homosexual rights
Not a left/right issue. And even if it was, leftism heavily promotes Islam, which is strictly anti-gay. It's not the Christians you should be worried about in these times.

>I'm an atheist
Irrelevant. Theocratic elements are an invasive agent that have nothing to do with left/right ideologies.

Which just leaves
>weed legalization
Not really a left/right issue either, just dumb traditional hangups and kids who want to smoke weed.

Ideologically the modern right would be the one who calls for more freedom on drugs. Less government, free market and so on.

>middle ground
I despise insipid passive faggots just as much as leftists since they give they leeway.

Heinlein actually offered the premise that the ability to vote and have true citizenship had a requirement more than being 98.6 degree body temp and over 18. If you were not willing to make a threshold of sacrifice you could not vote, hold office or have certain jobs. On the other end you could not be forced out of military. They would give you a job possible very rough or disgusting that you could do given your physical abilities. Active military could not vote but retired military types were the only franchised members of society.
The civic virtues and suffrage were the most obvious elements of the book but how the society punished wrongdoing and determined "justice" is important in the book. The movie portrayed a fascism, the book showed a citizen-soldier state. If you read pay attention to any section with History and Moral Philosophy classes.
The idea was they did not have not have none military types making decisions on military actions. With a few exceptions they generally made good decisions and did not meat grinder their troops.


The movie was not accurate at all how the military command structure worked. In the book the moment they figured out they were making a error in strategy they changed their operations. At the end of the book they were doing their combat drop on the last major bug planet, the bug Capitol world with tactics and strategies that had let them successfully remove bugs from a bunch of other worlds.

One of Heinlein last comments that if he had written the book later he would had more women and minorities obviously doing significant roles but at the time he had not made it obvious. As a aside the main character Juan Rico is from (at least partially) Argentina.

When he wrote it it was December 1959. The Korean war had ended and clearly the Department of Defense had made poor decisions on the conduct of the war.