Hey Sup Forums

Hey Sup Forums
I'm from Seattle Washington, living in a bubble of (sometimes extreme) liberalism. I honestly don't know people's reasoning behind these renewed conservative values such as a) not thinking the environment is of any concern b) prolife c) trickle down policy as apposed to policy that taxes the rich much more than the poor d) profiling immigrants e) profiling people of different religious beliefs f) profiling people of a different nationality/skin color
Etc. Etc.
What is their reasoning, from the person to person scale that some of you have come to know these people by? Are most of them really just brainwashed "Christian" cultists that can't see reason? I don't want to believe that

>Where our countries headed thread
>Debate style, try to keep it classy people

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lib cuck

>Seattle Washington
There's only one Seattle, faggot, you didn't need to specify.

Fuck Trump and fuck his forever-alone virgin fan club on here.

>apposed to policy that taxes the rich much more than the poor
Trump's tax plan removes federal income taxes for everyone that makes less than 20000 a year

That's not enough. Besides, more tax on the rich is what's necessary for a real decrease in desparity, rather than letting the already poor keep their cash

just show that poor people are better for the economy by spending more of their income in a more distributed way than the rich do and better economies generate more wealth.

Also the rich are being forced (through taxation) to keep their businesses and factories in the U.S.

Yes, it would generate more wealth. More wealth that the rich would take the vast majority of

By selling things to the poor people?

Liberalism is just an excuse to ignore the clear traditional and cultural differences between different ethnicities. I'd rather have nationalism and pride towards being Mexican than living in fear over stating something that most will view as "politically incorrect".

A difficult balance is required between keeping jobs in the U.S. And allowing businesses to move to where they want. However the larger issue as I see it isn't the money that rich people invest in their business, but the money that they keep to themselves to buy their 12th house and 3rd private jet

>profiling people of a different nationality/skin color
You are aware that niggers commit a disproportionate amount of crime, right?

They earn their things by selling things to other people. How is this wrong?

By selling things to the poor people and taking a ridiculously large cut of the profits

Those profits pay their workers at least the minimum wage.
Also, many rich people are philanthropists

It is wrong because they do not need all the money they earned, and others certainly do need it, such as children who go hungry each day, parents who can't find jobs (who could be found with screening), etc. There are plenty of people out there who both deserve and need money that don't have it

Do you need all of your money?
Surely you should donate your own excess money to charity then.

And many are not. Many are corrupt. And even if most of the profits go to the workers of a company, the CEO in the typical large company is still making millions upon millions of personal money that they spend on pointless things

>a
Don't really care, you probably don't either, though illegal deliberate pollution and destruction is bad.
regulations get in the way of industries = bad
>b
Christcuckery
>c
economics
>inb4 "Nordic model" or "Mixed Market democratic socialism"
Don't make me laugh.
>d
depends
>e
Depends (I'm sure you're referring to Muslims)
>f
hits the nail on the head

I hope you question your own political views from my crude post.

Everything in moderation. There needs to be a cap on how much personal money an individual can have. Even if that cap was large, 20 million for instance, it would still drastically reduce disparity.

People can even still get rich! Such a cap would just set reasonable restrictions. Would you be against this?

If by corrupt you mean lobbying for deregulation; Trump has already passed executive orders to decrease that. Also don't you buy "pointless" things? Like video games?

I wouldn't really be against it, but I'm guessing a lot of other conservatives wouldn't either.

Yes, because it's none of your fucking business how much money I have or what I do with it. You can't enforce charity, or legislate your own personal morality. Who the hell are you to decide what I do or do not "need"?

Yes, but the issue is that you have many Americans who would still feel that this is too low to justify any kind of super risky business move, and the economy would stagnate.
All the same, I sympathize user, I really do, but frankly there's no solution to really be made here that doesn't go against the concept of "the American dream" and doesn't also muff the economy up a bit.

I realize there is merit to statistics about crime, IQ, education level, etc comparing people of different nationalities. However I attribute these differences to cultural and economic differences rather than intrinsic inferiority (not to imply you do). How then do you think we can put people of other nations/skin colors on better footing? Better education? Or is there no pheasable way?

Well that's good that Trump is doing that! I don't believe he's an entirely bad president. I don't buy pointless things that cost tens of millions of dollars

you are from an ideological shithole. The rise of conservatives is people tired of people fucking with their shit. We want smaller government, we don't not care about the environment, we just don't want the government looking over our shoulders at every turn. This is supposed to be the land of the free. Being against mass immigration isn't 'profiling immigrants' it's basic common sense, this generation forgets the principles and values that made this country great, probably because they have been so lacking as of late. I am not at all religious and I'll tell you right now, every time the gov't says it will tax big businesses, big businesses lobby out of the tax and small businesses end up paying it. The reason there are no jobs is because there are no new businesses being set up by anyone except giant corporations that can afford all the regulations.

Be big corporation, lobby for regulations, be only one who can abide by regulations, squish out competition, buy competition, have monopoly

see how it works? Most people get their information from some stupid pundit but do research understand what it takes to run a business and you'll see why the country is in the shitter and modern liberals are really, really stupid.

Then why hasn't something like this happened yet? Why are there still billionaire tycoons with 20 houses and so on? I'm not saying it's the fault of conservatives alone. The system keeping the rich richer is the problem

have fun with all the retarded women who will cuck you out of millions, I'll be chillin over here on the smart people side where I don't fuck hundreds of sluts and instead devote myself to one beautiful and intelligent sperm bank that I can trust to not give me some bacteria from another man's cock!

If they're immigrants we can't let them in the country/ we have to deport them. If they're criminals put them in prison for rehabilitation. If they're children educate them.

This isn't me deciding, and I wouldn't make this decision. It should be the poverse majority throughout the world that democratically vote for the rich to lose their money. When it comes to disparity I think the problems of the many come before the problems of one millionaire individual

These billionaires are just really really smart, they shouldn't be taxed for being smarter than other people. That or they have friends in high places...which is another reason to shrink government. A lot of these big business guys get leeway if they have friends in the whatever department

You do realize that in the eyes of the rest of the world, you are amongst the richest group to exist, right? What happens when the masses of the poor decide that having the amount of money that you have is unacceptable, and your wealth (no matter how little you have relative to the extremely wealthy) is taken and redistributed?

Are you alright with living with significantly less?

I'm not saying they should get taxed only because they were able to make so much money. They deserve a wealthy lifestyle. The reason I think they should be taxed is because there is a more diar need for their money elsewhere such as with starving children (it's a legitimate example). Don't take away their lavish lifestyle, just take away their extreme excess

Yes I would be. You can call me a liar or you can believe that someone would value the survival of strangers in severe poverty over a little more comfort

I understand the criminals and the children. But why deport immigrants? I honestly want to know your reason and compare it openly to my beliefs

Nah.

I meant illegal immigrants/people that haven't been properly vetted

That's fine. You should give most of your income away then. However, many of us do not wish to live like a 3rd worlder. That's generally why so many people are opposed to massive increases in taxes. Sure, tax the rich. But what if they increase your taxes too?

Personally, I like my lifestyle. I'd prefer to increase everyone to at least my level. Hopefully with science and technology we will do just that. We are getting closer everyday, and it is awesome.

I completely agree with you
I think that with proper vetting, people from any country, culture, ethnicity, religion and skin color can become american

We are getting closer, and with each passing year, the average quality of living becomes higher. This is a positive thing people tend to overlook, I'm glad you didn't. At the same time I think that gross desparity reduces this increase each year, and in some places in the world can cause it to stay the same or move backward. I admit I don't know which economical plan works best to reduce desparity, but I think something needs to be done to reduce desparity if we are to make the very poor less poor. Reducing desparity so that the very poor becomepagan poor (with exception of people who give no effort) should be one of the largest goals in our country, don't you think?

*Become less
Not becomepagan

>That's not enough.
Jesus what the fuck man.

Also I actually do plan on giving away unnecessary income lol Im just in college right now so I don't have income to give away

It isn't!

Wow you seem like an expert on the economy and how the world should work d:^) why aren't you president???

Guys think of the quality that public places, utilities, roads, bridges and transportation could be if the rich were taxed more. Isn't road and bridge quality something that always seems to be a problem in the united States?

I live there as well and I find it confusing too, but the fact is, most of them are uneducated and are probably taking all of their info from the news.

Can you give me a legitimate argument? If you actually debate with me I will try my best to listen. I'm not trying to be a dick I started this thread because I wanted general thoughts on these matters, because I don't trust my own beliefs and I don't trust the media

How do you think this can change then? What would be necessary to allow people to think for themselves?

Well, I think they should research things for themselves instead of only listening to the mainstream media. For example, I used to despise Trump, but now I only dislike him. I did my best to find things myself instead of only looking towards what I see on tv.

Literally zero taxation is not enough? You do realize if people are given free shit said people won't work and the economy won't grow at all. The worst part, however, is that the free money would encourage people to have more children than they could afford leading to fucking faggot manchildren like you.

Your only argument is steal other people's money becuz of my feels and the children

How is the cost of living in Seattle?
Plan to move there after Uni.

Read what I said before. I wasn't just talking about one nation. I was talking about the entire planet. The difference between an average middle class or lower class American and say, a Nepalese villager is ridiculous. The difference is comparable to that between yourself and Bill Gates.

I have no idea what to do. I don't think it matters what you or I think. Things will continue to get better because we collectively work to make it better. I'd much rather be a peasant today than a thousand years ago, and I'd much rather be a peasant a thousand years from now than a rich man today. Assuming that things continue as they are.

And not to be rude, but if you honestly think that things are not objectively better for the poor today than it has been in the past, you seriously need to read more and a discussion between us is entirely pointless.

Not OP, but "the children" starving seems like a legitimate problem don't you think?

You still live on more money than most people on the planet. Most people can only dream of the sort of life you live.

That's one way to put it. I see my only argument as let the poor democratically vote for a tax reform that reduces desparity by taking from the very rich (i.e. I believe in humanity's ability to care for those in desperate need)

I'm in Seattle in Uni so don't know lol
But minimum wage here is $15

Holy shit that's a living wage where I'm from

I didn't mean zero taxation on the poor is not enough. In fact, maybe the poor should be taxed to an extent. What I meant was that it's more important for the rich to be taxed than the poor because they have so much more money

statistical averages do nothing for those suffering today and no more absolves you of responsibility than praying to an idol

Ok I'll take the bait.
a) How about showing proof of man made climate change? The NOAA has lied about things. The ice caps are not melting, the Earth hasn't gotten hotter since 1998 and the watter levels aren't rising. And what would be the solution to climate change if it were real? We all go back to the dark ages? And even if the whole western world went back to the dark ages, do you think China would give a shit? They would just carry on using coal and polluting. A better solution would be to let the free market decide. More efficient and renewable forms of energy will be used as time goes on. And remember that humans are adaptable. Even if the water levels rise in 50 years time, so what? Move inland.
b) The argument for abortionn is the same as the argument for slavery. Is it a person? If it's a person, I must treat it like a person. If it's not a person, I can do what I want with it. A baby isn't a kidney. It isn't a part of your body, it is a seperate life with its own brain waves and beating heart and blood. You don't get to choose to kill a baby just for the sake of your own convenience.
c) Taxing the rich doesn't work because they don't want you to take their money. They will always find a loophole in the system and end up getting saving as much money as possible. Also just because someone is rich, doesn't mean they are evil. Rich people are rich because they work hard and are smart and are good with money. Why would you want to punish people for warking hard and making good decisions, and then reward people who are lazy and don't contribute to society? Socialism simply doesn't work where there is scarcity. If food and housing and health care were free, socialism would work. These things are not free and socialism doesn't work. have you seen what a shithole Russia is?
d) Obviously you can't just let any cunt into your country as they may end up causing problems and being a burdon to society.

Guarantee they have a higher cost of living to balance it back out though. Don't get too excited.

Minimum wage here is not proportionate to minimum living lol. It's fifteen because of some weird plan the governor is doing. It's basically an exploit of the state that seattlites can use

>smart people side
If I listen REALLY closely, I can hear the vacuum that Dubya left by never taking office in his mind.

e) It isn't about religion, it's about extemism and anti western ideas. If someone believes it's okay to beat woman into submission, rape children and kill anyone who has a different ideology from you, why would you want that person in your country?
f) And where do you see this happening? Nowhere? Oh, okay.

OP here.
Several posters have mentioned that they've been talking about the global scale and not just the us scale. I'm trying to keep up.
I realize I'm living so much better off than people in third world countries and I view myself as a global citizen. At some point I do think that people of the U.S. middle class like myself will be placed in the position of the U.S. 1% Ive been saying should be taxed more. Again what I think here is everything in moderation. The world isn't ready for the middle class of richer countries to go away yet, just the very very ridiculously rich. When the time comes I think that yes, the middle class should be reduced if third world countries still exist. But before that we need to figure out how to even properly send money to the starving in these third world countries

If someone is poor their whole life, it is because they are bad with money.

this

do you even know how business works?

Jesus christ this entire thread is a train wreck.

"Democratically" deciding to take other people's property.

Anyone in USA could become rich. And remember that the people who own businesses give jobs to the rest. Why is that bad?

You don't get to decide what other people do with their money.

all business is thinking ahead for other people. it used to be thinking ahead by just a few hours with simple products, now that's increased dramatically, putting thousands of man hours into each product sold.

Conservatism is the final refuge of a white, middle class America that is under economic siege. As the post-World War II manufacturing sugar high finally wore off in the late 80's and early 90's, the bread and butter of the white collar worker began evaporating. Some people call it globalization, others blame China specifically. The truth is that American became noncompetitive in its largest area of revenue generation and so the middle class started to die. A few wars, a few economic bubbles, they postponed the inevitable but now the chickens have come home to roost.

Generally in this situation democracies wilt, autocracy takes root, and the second half of a declining empire's life begins. Rome was a rich, relatively free democracy for only about half of its existence. Eventually it became a democracy in name only and degenerated into autocracy.

We, the lucky few alive and conscious at this moment in time, have the honor and privilige to watch our nation move from its summer to its autumn phase. This isn't a bad thing or a good thing. It's just the life cycle of an empire playing out like all other empires...

So to answer your question - conservatism doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to. All it has to do is take the core demographic whom society is centered around and give them comfort as they experience the first wracking coughs of an ultimately fatal disease.

OP here
A) you make good points, I don't know exactly the legitamacy of climate change but I trust my biology professor
B) this issue is very controversial, some people believe a fetus is conscious and others do not. But it isn't a baby it's a fetus or embryo in development. I believe there is a threshold cutoff date when a fetus can feel pain.
C)even if taxing the rich has hardly worked in the past that doesn't mean it isn't a serious problem. There simply hasn't been a solution yet
D)I agree that immigration without vetting isnt good. But legal immigration with proper vetting should be fine, with the immigrant being of any nation, religion, nationality and skin color

That's not true for people in third world countries

Why? What has the 1% done wrong? And what gives you moral authority? Why is it that you get to decide who to punish just for the crime of having money?

Fascism for America, now.

That isn't bad. It's good. What's bad is when the CEO of a conglomorite has billions of dollars of personal money to spend on private jets and mansions

It's because of anti-intellectualism, a HUGE inferiority complex uneducated middle americans have towards educated "city" folk.

...

No but the vast majority of poverse people's should get to decide fairly in a democratic system

>believing in the sovereignty and culture of your nation is "fascist
>being politically correct isn't
This better be bait

What's worse is when he's made secretary of state.

Not precisely fascism. Nationalism. Fascism is the extreme end of nationalism. Everything going on right now is teatime compared to what will come later. It happens in stages. 50 years ago Trump and his ilk would have been unthinkable. I'm sure the politicians 50 years from now will be far more deserving of the title 'fascist' than those of today.

I honestly don't care who should be allowed to do what. It's a matter of opinion. However, here are some verifiable facts from econ 101:

Sweden is widely considered the most economically egalitarian country in the world. Their tax rates are almost completely flat. The US has an extremely progressive tax rate by comparison. However, Sweden taxes everyone MORE than even the richest of us in the US, and spends it on social programs. As a result, they have extremely low economic disparity.

If you want to fight poverty, increase taxes.

>anti-intellectualism
You smug cunt

a) Why? Don't trust your prof, trust the facts and see the truth for yourself. Just because someone has a qualification, doesn't mean they aren't full of shit, or blindly following someone else who is blindly following someone else etc
b) If it isn't a life it is still a potential life. Why do you get to decide to kill it?
c) We should help the poor any way we can but why must we punish the rich for making good decisions and reward those who make bad decisions? You don't seem to be a Christion so why not embrace survival of the fittest?
d) of course I agree with you and so does almost everyone. So what's the problem?

The answer is neither Republican nor democrat.

youtube.com/shared?ci=FEyS26N8qoI

Ok you are right there. But it is true in the west

Why? He/she earned it

I'm fairly conservative and I think the main dividing point between conservatives and the left is essentially their respective views of the rIles of government. I view the government as mostly inefficient but required for certain tasks.
A) I am very much in favor of protecting the environment however there are 2 basic issues; incompetent government programs and the partisan nature of legislation. One side unabashedly claims any expansion of, for example, a pipeline to make it newer, safer, and leak less overall will be LITERALLY DUMPING CRUDE OIL ON BABY SEALS, while the other seems to push the wrong issues. Really what I support is expanding nuclear power as much as possible but people are squeamish/uniformed.
B) pro life, while this isn't a political issue for me, many of my contemporaries view that life begins at conception, and a fetus is an individual entity. I'm a realist, I say keep planned parenthood running full steam and make contraceptives as accessible/cheap as possible.
C) trickle down vs tax the rich. My view is this; the focus of the "tax the rich and give to the poor" is incredibly short sighted. We shouldn't be worrying about how rich some people are. Simply confiscating money from people above a certain thresold does not magically make poor people better off. Having rich people in society is a good thing. We need to figure out how to break the cycle of poverty which I believe the solution is to facilitate a) kids in poor areas graduating high schools and b) pursing ANY job but especially a job in skilled trades.
D) I have absolutely no problems with immigrants. The imperative term in that issue is ILLEGAL immigrants. An uncontrolled influx of people of unidentified needs and abilities is a recipe for disaster
F) I don't give a shit what religion anyone else is as long as practicing that religion interferes with another person's rights.
G) see above.

My general theory in life is don't I won't bother you

"We need mo cash fo Dem afta school programs n shirt"

I'm not trying to say the rich are doing anything wrong. It's just that the very rich do not need all of their money to survive, and many others need more money to survive. These are my beliefs, I have no moral authority. Who I believe should be given moral authority are the global masses, which are the poverse. Naturally they would want to tax the rich much more

i wanna fuck you up. where u wanna meet?

Sweden and U.S. are apples and oranges. With its larger population base and radically different culture and ethics, the U.S could not possibly scale services up like Sweden has. As bureaucracies scale up, their efficacy doesn't keep pace with their size. Loosely put, the square cube law goes into effect. You get a squared increase in services while the organizational size increases cubically.

a) I am a conservative who is concerned about the environment but I admit there are many who are misguided or willfully ignorant
b) I am prochoice to an extent. Of course if there is risk to the mother or known birth defects, or a product of rape I think a woman should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy. In other instances, though I wouldn't encourage it, I think she should have the right to choose up to a certain point bin the pregnancy. I have no problem when it is an undifferentiated blob of cells, but think it would be very reckless to carry the pregnancy until the last trimester and then decide to abort it
c) I agree the trickle down idea is complete rubbish, but pure capitalism (not crony) is the best from what I've seen. I admittedly need to research more into this, but I think communism and, for nonhomogenous societies, socialism is far worse
d) too vague; what do you mean by profiling immigrants?
e)above is where conservatives are off the mark. Probably from d) down are where liberals go absolutely fucking retarded. It's wrong to profile someone for their religious beliefs? What if there beliefs are unadulterated batshit stupid, crazy and evil. I'll go ahead and call out the elephant in the room: Islam is not compatible with western culture and values. Period. If you would stop being delusional and see, on average, it and uts adherents are the most cancerous plague on the planet in terms cultural progress. I would start listing off the countless statistics on how barbarous it is but I'm sure you have already heard most of them and would just stick your head in the sand in a desperate attempt to salvage utopian vision of the world.
f) I'm going to throw the immigrant part of (e) into here as well.