Disprove Communism

Disprove Communism.

That's right: you can't.

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Not an argument

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we are the new communist order. you made a big mistake

Whatever u say faggy.

Read The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and then shitpost about communism. You've devoted 1-50 hours to the subject at most, talk about it when you've knocked down all IRON men, not straw men.
After atleast 200 hours of research into ideologies, and after reading the book, you may then argue it.

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You cannot prove or disprove a conceptial political structure. It is an idea, not a tangible object therefore it only exists in the minds of men and is in a sense not real.

Congratz on winning WWII nazis...

>Read The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
He was an insane nazi

that is not true, ideas shape not only how a brain works, but also its physical structure making them very much "real" thing. Or by saying that they are not real you mean they are like Webbers ideal type? But those can, by virtue of Webber saying it himself, be proved and disaproved and judged.

>be me
>go to school for 10 years to be a doctor
>make the same as the guy working at McDonalds

what a shit system

Communism will win, comrade

0_o and you base that argument on?

Communist takes brain buhahahaha what a joke.

The fuck do you mean, "disprove it"? It was a thing, it existed. There is proof of it.

Take a lap.

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Good argument but my point still reamins that it is a substanceless idea. Mens words and belife in it give it power and meaning. If nobody belived in it then it would not exist

Also ideas dont affect the physical strucute of your brain, that is retarded. They may affect how you think and the thought patterns which are inherent within such ideas and concepts but it won't PHYSICALLY shape your brain

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Go tell people to stop driving their Volkswagen cars because its nazi invention.
Or tell doctors to stop using certain medical practices that the nazis found out.

only you will never get a man that is not shaped by some sort of belife system. Even a small lack of interaction gives horrible resoults, and at a realy young age, 1-12 months, it just ends with a dead child.
And yes they do shape the physical structure of the brain. If you are tought to fear, like, X something, then it changes structures in your brain in a physical way.
And this is true for any system a human enters, not just communism.

What do you mean, "disprove?" As in, that it exists, or doesn't exist? Or, that it doesn't work? It does not exist, is the problem. As with any political system, the corrupt rise to the top, and exploit the naive. There has only existed communism on very small scales. The early Christians lived as communists, and shared all things in common. A limited form existed among the Oneida community here in the USA, but it fell apart because of people's desire to have personal possessions. A still more limited form exists among the Amish, but who the hell wants to be hypocritical about technology. As for the soviet style "communism," as imposed by a small minority against the majority, that small minority controlled all the resources, and the "masses" suffered deprivation. The most extreme form of forced communism still exists in North Korea, but you can see where that leaves people - only Pyongyang has electricity to this day. There have been times when the people have resorted to cannibalism because of the food shortages. Those shortages were caused mainly by 1/4 of the men are in the military, which also serves as their internal police to keep the remaining people working so that the glorious leaders might maintain their extravagant lifestyles, and give bullshit speeches about the joys of solidarity.

Well, for starters, communism isn't that bad.
I mean, they have it in Norway, practically, and everybody is happy with it. Only difference is that they call it "democratic socialism".
I\ve lived in eastern block in the 80's, and now in Norway, and the only difference is that Norway actually can afford all that commie bullshit.
The first rule of comunism is that everybody shares everything together. Well, we didn't have that much to share in Eastern block, so the communism didn't work too well, as well as the constatnt russian invigilation. Besides that, it was not that bad. And now in Norway - I can only complain about very strict control over sales, especially of alcohol and on "red days".

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Are you a neurologist? No, so stfu.

Memories and other things which may psycologicaly impact you may create engrams in you brain folds but will not physicaly shape your brain

but it wasnt real communism lmao
try harder nazis

all sophisticated ideologies rely on you being a metal infant who responds to pandering or bullying to succeed and spread
they're quasi-spiritual nonsense and they can't gain traction based on their own merit so they appeal to emotion
just be a man
stop awaiting your utopia and live in the real world

Socialism.

Do you remember how the early christian communism in Hierosolima ended? Paul, who was very much not a communist by nature being a merchant son etc, had to gather money all around Asia minor and Egypt and buy food for them, because there was a real danger that the commune would die of hunger.
communism is good, when you have something you can sell outside of the communist system, at a non communism price and subsidies your communism with it. It is the same thing with early christians, they play being a commune and Paul has to gather money to feed them.
Also not bad? Dude how old were you, I lived and still live in a post communism country, and I remember the lack of food in the 80s, people going to prisons, because their grandparents were politicly active pre WWII. people not being able to find a job, because they or they parents came from the wrong class. The so call "good deeds", where you had to "voluntery" do work for free on weekends. And weekends being free only twice per month, and of course when those were free you had to voluntery work etc.
It was fucking horrible, pushed some countries 50 or more years back compering to other countries.

innocent nazi germany and colonists :(((((

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Actualy I am in my 3ed year of psychology and my specialisation is neuropsychology. And if something shapes connections in your brain, and how the brain reacts to certain stimuli. Then it fucking does effect its fucking physicly structure.

We have enough examples in the past to know communism is a utopia and doesn't work, wake up you fucking downie

>arguing on Sup Forums
>arguing on Sup Forums
>expecting good debate

>3rd year ofd education
So you still arn't a neurologist, you're a student

>effect it's fucking physicaly structure
You ain't going to pass your third year with that kind of English skills faggot

Well, I was a soldier back then, forced but still - so not that bad. Also my family comes from a village and belive it or not, it was not that bad. Actually living on the countryside was quite better, since the farmers could borrow government machines(tractors, etc) in an "farming center" or whatever you'd call it in english. Actually, all of this agriculture died together with communism, since capitalists buyed out all that stuff for them selfs under privatisation.
About the cities - yeah you right there - wasnt that colourfull, but people had many other perks they dont have today - like free vacation for children for example

suck my cock dude

>expecting anything from Sup Forums
Gj

You know very well that you don't need a degree of any sort to hold an idea. Stop lying to yourself and actually show evidence.

>believing the capitalist propaganda
>muh history
>not even understanding the history
>not even knowing what exactly happened
>not even interested in knowing the truth

And english is not only not the only language in which people teach. But it does speak volume, that you somehow expect or neurologists to be limited to anglo saxon countries.
3ed year of specialisation is done after 3 years of med school, followed by 3 years psychology. If I were lazy, I could open a practice right now. But as brain bio chemisty is the thing am interested in I still learn. In fact anyone who works in a medicin related proffession never stops to do courses, extra specialisation etc.

>person A gets what he needs
>person B gets what he needs
>person A and B do different work
>thinking there's a problem with anyone getting what he needs
>"i do more valuable work than A so he shouldn't get what he needs or I should get more than I need"
>thinking this makes sense
>2017

james bond keeps beating. case closed.

because it did exist

y'know, before it starved all its practitioners :)

>Oh, no matter what I do, I'll still only get what I need to survive. Might as well just not invent shit and solve problems now.

>Oh, even if I go to 10 years of med school I'll still only get what I need, just like the garbage truck driver who dropped out. Guess I might as well not go then, what's the point?

The expectation of massive reward is what drives innovation, the world doesn't run on altruistic feelings you fucking idiot. Thinking anything you posted makes sense is the real cringe-inducing shit.

>muh soviet union is a communist example that failed and starved ppl
> tfw the soviet union EXPORTED goods to - F I N A N C E - industry and weaponry
> still calling the soviet union a communist country while they had money and were exchanging goods with other nations
> not realizing that this is state capitalism
> not knowing that in communism, the exchange of goods is eliminated because the artificial construct of exchange value leads to contradictions
> not knowing that thus, in a communist society, there would be no money
> "BUT IT WAS STILL COMMUNIST THO"
> 2017

I don't say that anybody should have or has altruistic feelings. People should just notice that, if they want to live at all, some things HAVE to be produced and what should be produced and scientifically investigated should be planned.

If you're curious about nothing and are basically an empty shell that is merely driven by expecting a reward, then yeah, sure, do lowest tier work and enjoy the void inside.

You forgot your smuganimeface.jpg user

yeah and the machines, where do they came from. the tractors etc everything was bought with lend money. Same with the hotels and free vacations. Everyone else had to pay for it. In some countries they pay for it till today.
Your saying agriculture died with communism. Now collectivism died with communism, but it was very inefficient in the first place. And to begin with it was forced in rural areas. People wanted land for themself and not to work on land that is state owned. All the stuff kind of a worked for people outside of the cities, because they were double diping. They were working in factories, but had small plots of land, they had electrification, free med care, and since the 60-70s no longer had to give up most the stuff they grew on their private, which is an anathema to communism, fields. So by the time 80s hit, they were selling stuff, getting cheap loans from the state, getting cheap coal etc. So yeah life could have been good. But it was not good because of communism. It was good because people from rural areas could partly live as non communists in a communist state. It was less good in places where people from rural areas could not. Like all the people durning collectivisation in Russia.

Just go to any ex usssr country in eastern europe and ask about it. Srsly, you western leftist cunts are idiots.

Yeah, you're right. You probably know way more about communism than lenin and stalin. Like, we're soooo totally stupid for thinking that in [current year]. What were we thiiiiinking?

What a fucking clown.

>>muh soviet union is a communist example that failed and starved ppl
>> tfw the soviet union EXPORTED goods to - F I N A N C E - industry and weaponry
>> still calling the soviet union a communist country while they had money and were exchanging goods with other nations
>> not realizing that this is state capitalism
>> not knowing that in communism, the exchange of goods is eliminated because the artificial construct of exchange value leads to contradictions
>> not knowing that thus, in a communist society, there would be no money
>> "BUT IT WAS STILL COMMUNIST THO"
>> 2017

>implying capitalism doesn't already account and plan for things to be produced and scientifically investigated

The fuck is wrong with your head? Nothing you just described is exclusive to communism or in any way lacking in capitalism. You're a fucking tool and a clown.

boris badinov and natasha never win so communism is doomed

To know what I have stated, you merely have to read the first chapter of the capital. Did you ever dare to actually look at the theory or are you just basing your replies on the superficial reflections of others?

Especially realize this:
>not knowing that in communism, the exchange of goods is eliminated because the artificial construct of exchange value leads to contradictions

If that was the case then reasonably the sciences and (creative) media would be barren wastelands, since it borders on privilege to achieve a livable wage in either and statistically it'd make more sense to go elsewhere.

Have a few med-student friends and I suspect the field would be just fine without cash-incentive: although admittedly I know one who would be right out if not for the financial security.

The goal was never and has never been achieved. agreed?

>not an argument
>implying "prove me wrong within my own arbitrary frame, you can't? Haha i win again" is an argument

Sure, if it's so good why aren't you living in a communist country?

only what they exported was weapons and raw materials and food. You guys were fucking raiding other warsaw pact countries for food, and even then it was not enough. I remember how trade with soviets looked like. 6 months of sending them food. Time to pay up. Russians send old tanks saying those are the payment, and infact those tanks are costed like new tanks, so now it is us who own them money. And when we had to trade with them using rubels, which no one wanted, we had to pay them in dollars, which we first had to buy. And lets not forget the exchange rate soviets had in their official trading with other warsaw pact countries. 1 rubel=1 dollar. When even in fucking moscov itself it was 10 times as much. with the small correction of the fact that a private person could of course not trade dollars, that was illegal, but owning dollars was perfectly legal.

>person C decides what person A & B need

There went that line of reasoning.

You're telling me to think for myself, yet you're the clown trying to argue that "communism will totally work this time!" Grow up kid.

well if capitalism "plans" then the plan is bad, right? Capitalism would plan for 800 million people starving and 30 million of them starving to death each year. What plan is behind this? Is capitalism saying: oh yeah we plan their death because fuck them or is it maybe something systematically leading to ignorance towards those that cannot provide exchange value in order to get what they need on a market? it's the latter, my man, it's the latter ... i.e. no one gives A FUCK about your needs if you cannot provide exchange value and I think production should be based on what people need.

Furthermore the planning, which indeed exists, is NOT targeted at peoples needs but at the generation of exchange value and is done privately, i.e. some people SPECULATE about what could most likely GENERATE EXCHANGE VALUE.
> actually considering this to be a good plan
> 2017

My family did work at a soviet collective farm so i'll fix it for you:
>person A is doing some work
>person B is imitating some work
>person C is always drunk, does nothing, also steals shit.
>everyone earn the same.
>Eventualy person A gets demotivated, nothing gets done. Soviet union gets bankrupt.
enjoy your unrealistic utopia faggots.

>this triggers the leftist

This is not what I'm saying. I'm just telling you the truth and the truth is stated in

yeah totaly. A person who works 12-16 hours a day, with no leave and who has to learn for 10-15 years to get the basics done. Should earn as much as someone who sits for 8 hours in Lidl, doing mindless work.

If something requires skill it always costs more, if something generates extra value it always costs more and requires more pay. Sure you could create a system where you would have doctors who do not care about their pay. The thing with such a system is, that you would not get great doctors in such a system and the number of bad doctors would at best stay the same comparing to a more capitalists like system.

yeah, you got a point over here.
Never said the system was perfect - none is.
And the problem with russian style communism was that it was xenophobic and they didn't have money to actually afford communism. Norway today on the other hand - they can afford it.
The system of itself was fake stimulating all branches of industry and ended with overflowing of products which noone needed, and lack of those people really needed. (classic exemple: make metal plates fabric to give people job, then build a melt works to melt all the metal plates you didnt need in the first place and to give job to even more people. Then use the newle melted scrap metal to make more metal plates). Cities were the worst, remember a friend of my mother who traveled over 300km to stand in cue for 9hrs to buy about 1 kg of sausage for christmas. But in villages they had meat, eggs, milk etc, all fresh and self made, for a relatively small fee to the collective office.
I know Russia was even harder - and out of what you saying that is where you have your experience from.
Well, it's Poland in my case. As I said, it was not that bad over there, especially after the East German border opened.
Just so it's said - now, at least oin the case of Poland, it's 180 degrees other way - the cities are pretty nice for living, the villages are riddiculously poor and isolated.

>>>muh soviet union is a communist example that failed and starved ppl
>>> tfw the soviet union EXPORTED goods to - F I N A N C E - industry and weaponry
>>> still calling the soviet union a communist country while they had money and were exchanging goods with other nations
>>> not realizing that this is state capitalism
>>> not knowing that in communism, the exchange of goods is eliminated because the artificial construct of exchange value leads to contradictions
>>> not knowing that thus, in a communist society, there would be no money
>>> "BUT IT WAS STILL COMMUNIST THO"
>>> 2017

The souls of 100 million innocent people beg to differ.

Its failed cuz excessive military spending, poor living c onditions, lack of innovation and Its for faggots...

the thing is that no one would have to work these hours.

Today it is like this:
Technological advances reduce the time needed to produce a good. The result surprisingly is not that people have to work less but that less people work.

communism is a very shallow and childish idea
it implies everyone will always work for the better of their community
its shit like you would only expect from a kid, or a miss universe speech, no one that doesnt live inside a safe bubble could ever take that seriously

you pretty correct about the lending though. Poland is still paying for those

Show me some memes comrade

get gud at life pussy

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You can talk all your commie bullshit you want and it won't change the fact that people naturally look out for their own self interests. It's evolution. It's hard-wired and it's helped us survive as a species as long as we have. The free market is the best option we have for containing that human nature in a way that's least detrimental to others directly. That's why communism has and will always fail. Human nature. The ones at the top get too greedy, every time. The ones at the bottom get fucked and ask themselves "why am I allowing this dictator to decide every facet of my life for me?" Even with it's imperfections, capitalism still provides a greater amount of freedom and well-being than communism. That will never change. If it bothers you so much, move to a country that's more suited to your commie bullshit. But you won't do that, right? Because you don't actually believe the shit you're spewing.

>The world doesn't run on altruistic feelings you fucking idiot

Well, in the defense of communism, marxists do claim that in order for communism to work, consciousness of people has to evolve to a point that everyone does what they do best, without being bothered that everyone gets the same.

yeah it's just that the self-interests would be satisfied more if it the production was planned according to the NEEDS rather than according to the generation of exchange value

best. thread. ever.

so 1st you'd need to evolve the human conscience to that point, and only AFTER that you can start discussing how to implement your communist bullshit
you are working on the wrong step then dumbass

Ok, but this means that communists can work only in small closed communities with access to high value raw materials. And those communities have to stay closed, because if their population would start to grow rapidly the system breaks down.
Another words it is british people that pay for gas and fuel that pay the cost of "communism" in Norway.

Don't say the villages are isolated and poor. they have a higher rise of standard of living then people that lived in the city. Sure a lot of young people left, but the same thing can be said about most cities aside for Warsaw. Plus there is EU money. Sure the jump is not as high as it was in the 40s, but it is hard to make the same sort of civilisation jump. Post WWII rural Poland outside of some western parts, was living in XIX century. And while electrification, roads etc are a great thing, one has to ask oneself. If the changes were a communist thing, or did they happen because the world doesn't stop and progress of some sort always happens.
I have family in Poland and they were working in germany in the early 90s, then started buying out land and buildings in Mazur area, like a lot of people that didn't spend their money on alcohol and cars. Now they are rich, and there was a ton of people like that. At some point in the 2000s I remember people whose parents were low manual workers, buying out old PGR.

ftfy

karl marx real name was Chaim Hirschel Mordechai

and Rothschilds paid him to write communist manifesto

no

>>>>muh soviet union is a communist example that failed and starved ppl
>>>> tfw the soviet union EXPORTED goods to - F I N A N C E - industry and weaponry
>>>> still calling the soviet union a communist country while they had money and were exchanging goods with other nations
>>>> not realizing that this is state capitalism
>>>> not knowing that in communism, the exchange of goods is eliminated because the artificial construct of exchange value leads to contradictions
>>>> not knowing that thus, in a communist society, there would be no money
>>>> "BUT IT WAS STILL COMMUNIST THO"
>>>> 2017

I understand that human consciousness must evolve first before implementing it.
Also, that was my first post you imbecile.

The sovjet union was a communist state (Engels: "Communism is the actual movement that aims towards the abolishment of the class society"). But you seem to be one of those hippies who made a great strawman for the new right. Good job.

you can keep repeating that bullshit all you want
it just shows how badly you missed the point that its not possible to remove the need to exchange goods
USSR went for the state capitalsim because there was no other option, the other option would be to starve even more than what they were already starving
face it, your beloved ideology just doesnt work