What do we think about artists like Thurston Moore, Tunde Adebimpe, Robert Wyatt et al...

What do we think about artists like Thurston Moore, Tunde Adebimpe, Robert Wyatt et al. chastising Radiohead for playing Israel?

artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2017/04/23/an-open-letter-to-radiohead/

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declare_Independence
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idc
jews run the world and thom needs money for his new gf

he better not play a concert for those jews!

when did thurston turn into a neo-nazi?

>tfw israel is a terrible country but can't say this out of fear of losing all my jew friends

I think Thom 'muh global warming' Yorke may have already taken some of that $.

Where's the problem with them playing in Israel? The people of the country shouldn't be avoided because the government of that country sucks. If that was the case then Radiohead wouldn't play in America or England or France or name another country.

What?

>Thurston Moore:
‘If any concerned, humanitarian-conscious activists employ a boycott to protest brutal injustice in their country and request artists and scholars to refrain from working and/or being promoted as supportive of the normalization of that country – then I choose NOT to cross that line and suggest to all to not be complicit. It is a small sacrifice in respect to those who struggle in honourable opposition to state-sponsored fascism.’

Who are the Israeli artists calling for a boycott of their country?

>Where's the problem with them playing in Israel?
You don't remember the boycotts against South Africa in the 80s? It's about boycotting apartheid states.

They even had Artists Against Apartheid who wrote the song 'Sun City'. Participants included:


>Springstein, Miles Davis, Kool DJ Herc, Grandmaster Melle Mel, The Fat Boys, Rubén Blades, Bob Dylan, Herbie Hancock, Ringo Starr and his son Zak Starkey, Lou Reed, Run DMC, Peter Gabriel, David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, Darlene Love, Bobby Womack, Afrika Bambaataa, Kurtis Blow, Jackson Browne and then-girlfriend Daryl Hannah, U2, George Clinton, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood, Peter Wolf, Bonnie Raitt, Hall & Oates, Jimmy Cliff, Big Youth, Michael Monroe, Peter Garrett, Ron Carter, Ray Barretto, Gil-Scott Heron, Nona Hendryx, Pete Townshend, Pat Benatar, Clarence Clemons, Stiv Bators and Joey Ramone.

kek, this story will be covered up, and this thread will be slid.

Radiohead are either puppets, scabs, or fools.

bump

It's just like when Bryan Adams refused to play in North Carolina because of the tranny bathroom law, but played in Egypt. I don't care where an artist to plays, but if you act like a hypocrite your statements are worthless.

Also, anyone else /conservativebuthateisrael/?

Yeah, because the Israeli fans of Radiohead are responsible and should be punished for what their government does? Guess they better never play a concert in the USA and China etc because i disagree with some of their politics and beliefs .

these artists are asking them not to play specifically because israel is an apartheid state. that's their issue with them. it's the same as when artists boycotted south africa for the same reason.

It's not the same because Israel isn't actually an apartheid state and it's disingenuous to call them that. But leftists always have to exaggerate about everything, don't they?

why do you consider them not an apartheid state? they frequently bulldoze palestinian homes that have been there since before israel existed and have been expanding into their land for decades. also i'm not leftist, this is me

There are major social problems in many of the countries that artists go to, what makes apartheid so special?

People tend to focus on fixing the problems of the richest and most powerful countries first.

they hate jews. that's the problem.

they consider singling out and marginalizing an ethnic group through laws to be a serious human rights violation. at least in their mind.

Thurston "For Jewish Blood" Moore

muslims are not humans thou so they have no human rights. jews are actually our best allies contrary to what poll thinks

whatever you say levy goldstone

I think they're right to object, Israel is an apartheid state performing what is pretty much genetic genocide on the Palestinian people and that's in between carpet bombing runs. I have absolutely nothing against Jewish people, but fuck Israel.

kek

I still do not understand. How is playing a show in Tel Aviv an endorsement of the state of Israel and its actions past and present? One of my favorite artists, David Thomas Broughton, recently released a great album titled Crippling Lack. He had the strange experience of living in Pyongyang, North Korea and recorded some of the album there. Do such actions form an endorsement of a "state" whose human rights are the lowest in the world? I don't believe so.

I think it's arrogant for musicians and other artists to think that them not performing in certain countries due to issues with their governments will have any effect on that country's politics. Ultimately only the fans in those countries lose out. I don't think Netanyahu will care if Roger Waters doesn't come to his country, and I think that it's entirely possible to perform in a country like Israel without showing support for the government, and to avoid any collaboration with government agencies in organising the event.

I feel the same. I understand where they are coming from and I think their intentions are good but, personally, I view such boycotts are futile. As I said in , playing a live show is not an endorsement. Supporters of the boycott believe that while one refusal to play in Israel is not going to change anything a collective boycott will. I am sorry but I believe this is not arrogant but that it is hyperbolic. If every non-Israeli musician erased Israel off their tour destinations absolutely nothing would change. The protest of the state of Israel is a good one but a refusal to play there is not going to bolster the opposition.

a lot of protest is based around inconveniencing the state as a whole so the government has to respond or deal with greater civil unrest

not that I think anyone's going to riot over not seeing radiohead but its not illogical

that and it shows that there are actual consequences to being condemned by the international community aside from the UN wagging its finger at you

I suppose it has to do with whether you believe the general populace supports the governments actions or not. You could argue that the people of NK are by and large being held hostage by a cult. I don't know to what extent you can make that claim about Israel.

>If every non-Israeli musician erased Israel off their tour destinations absolutely nothing would change
It would undermine any claim to morality and shift public perception and it would make the disdain felt in Israel when they're shunned from enjoying contemporary art firsthand.

It's not a particularly powerful form of pressure, but it's the only way for artists to make a statement that is felt. Anything less is completely ignorable.

It's kind of like voting with your wallet, except instead of money it's your artistic contributions.

give me one reason to support palestinians

alternatively, explain to me how muslims are better than jews

>alternatively, explain to me how muslims are better than jews
less direct negative influence on global politics

Yet again, you are giving too much value to foreign musicians. It's not remotely significant as an addition to the boycott.

I may be wrong but my impression of Israel is that the citizens, especially the millennials, are living in a situation they were born into and are not particularly Zionistic. Hell, there are more Zionists here in the US.

I'm sorry but I just do not agree. Yet again, I feel you are being hyperbolic.

>when they're shunned from enjoying contemporary art firsthand.
Yeah, Netanyahu is being shunned. No, it's just some teens and mid-adults who likes Radiohead music. Most of whom I would say are not Zionists.

>It's kind of like voting with your wallet, except instead of money it's your artistic contributions.
Again, a performance =/= endorsement of the nation whose boundaries it is in.

If anything, I would think it would be an even bigger protest to perform in Israel and air your opinions right then and there. Do you remember when Bjork performed Declare Independence in Shanghai? That's a real protest that has real lasting impression. Simply joining a "literally who" boycott makes no impression.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declare_Independence

Well here and I'm a socialist, so from my perspective patronizing Israel, even in the form of a concert, is validating the actions of an imperialist state that's committed numerous human rights abuses. In my opinion, so long as Israel continues to opress the Palestinian people, they are not a nation that deserves to be recognized by the artistic community.

Now, I acknowledge that it is *possible* to have a valid artistic reason to break a boycott, Paul Simon's Graceland being the most notable musical example perhaps. As far as I know however, that was done with the intent of showcasing the music of the actually subjugated people in SA to the world at large. Radiohead playing a gig in Tel Aviv isn't remotely the same thing.

this. could /thread right there.

Bulldozing shitty old shacks and expanding territory is not what apartheid was about. It's a word describing an actual set of policies in South Africa and has a real definition. It's a pretty big exaggeration to call Israel an apartheid state and their human rights abuses are pretty small compared to shit other nations have pulled that these artists probably don't think twice about performing in. It's nothing more than leftist virtue signalling because they have a fetish for people who adhere to a certain death cult founded in Saudi Arabia.

>Now, I acknowledge that it is *possible* to have a valid artistic reason to break a boycott

See I have a problem with this line of thinking

It's not like Radiohead is part of some Musician's Union and they're breaking an agreed-upon strike. It's just framed that way because so many musicians have similar feelings on the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's not "breaking a boycott" if you never agreed to the boycott to begin with.

>See I have a problem with this line of thinking
me too. it's a bullshit loophole cop out for bullshit people.

But like this dude said:

isn't apartheid a system of institutionalized system ethnic discrimination/segregation upheld by a state? how would the treatment of palestinians, including the taking of their land in israel and giving it to jewish settlers, not be apartheid? i should preface this by saying i don't like palestine either.

Specifically it was a set of policies in South Africa for about half a century and was much more extreme and codified into law than anything the Israelis are doing. People who make that comparison are basically in the same boat as the people who've been making Trump/Hitler comparisons.

Yeah but they play in America who are the biggest cunts in the world
Doesn't make any fucking sense

Yes the fact that the situations are similar without the Israelis officially passing laws actually makes it worse.

i know that the original definition referred to SA's policies, but now the UN have a definition for apartheid as a human rights violation, and i believe israel meets the criteria

>they are not a nation that deserves to be recognized by the artistic community.
Yes, but how is that a recognition of the state of Israel? I saw Gorillaz last night at Rough Trade in New York. Was that a recognition by the band of the United States government and its foreign and domestic actions. No. They just played a show to an audience (I would presume) of primarily US citizens. Not playing would be a statement to the fans, not the country ffs. Following that logic, it is implicit in that statement that Israeli citizens should be punished. I'll remind you that near 50% of Israeli Jews are secular. I would guess the majority of that Radiohead audience will fit in that demographic. Also, being a citizen is not an endorsement of the government. You can't just up and leave to another country these days. You need qualifications and, usually, a willingness to abandon your family. Most people in this world are not fervently rallying behind some grand nationalistic, social, or religious cause; they are just living the lives they were born into.