Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1828

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

Special Sup Forums FAQ:
>What's the point of this thread?
For learners of Japanese to come and ask questions and shitpost with other learners. Japanese people learning English can come too I guess.
>Why is it here?
The mods moved us here and won't let us go anywhere else.
>Why not use the pre-existing Japanese thread?
The cultures are completely different.
>Go back to Sup Forums
There's the door

Last thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

mega.nz/#!6hlnVAYI!UFFH7L5QCW3Lm09nri0NqKh3z76F-v-ETxLjEx_PczE
youtube.com/watch?v=HZU_72e-Jjc
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

It was mostly BRs and a new-zealander who were sperging out here before convincing mods to let their autism be tolerated on the DJT on /jp/, and since a lot of people are straddling both that thread and this one, he probably is one of those autists who made his home on /jp/. I would disregard or filter the BRs and that new-zealander if I were you guys.

I made like 10 threads on /qa/ and spammed Hiro's email to get us /jp/ so you can also disregard and filter leafs.

Hey, fuck you.

There were around 5 BRs during the Sup Forums wars. After the /jp/ diaspora, 2 remained and the autism was gone. A couple others joined afterwards, no problem.

This one who refuses to write like a human being is very sporadic as he dwells on the /jp/ threads.

As for New Zealand, it's indeed a single faggot who has already admitted to shitposting over /jp/ to "protect the culture", so feel free to block it.

Yet you're still here, so all those arguments about not wanting flags because it's like forced trips and the thing about Sup Forums being Sup Forums 2.0 was bullshit? Colour me surpised. I knew only underaged autists who always get what they want from mommy were the ones complaining to mods leading the today's schism. Seriously kys mate.

Am i the only one who has never been to /jp/'s djt?

I feel bad for treating the American who wanted to go to Japan so badly now. Poor guy was just asking questions.

You're right, some BRs who stayed are fine, but if the /jp/ ones are going to be shitposting all over our DJT, there aren't many solutions.

I wouldn't worry about it. You didn't insult him for no reason, you were just telling him how he was wrong(and an insult, even tho pointless, may be justified because by "belittling japanese" he was more or less belittling the efforts/mental capacity of most/all of us here) which might be useful to him, since having the ilusion or hope of learning japanese "fairly quickly" may turn out to be incredibly frustrating.

お疲れさん
やっぱ今の状況って最高よね

It is, now go back to the autist den you came from.

You're not the only one. I don't like /jp/ in general, I never go there and I probably never will.

I used to visit all 4 generals simultaneously, but lately it's 90% Sup Forums and 10% /jp/. I just answer a couple questions when someone is getting shat on instead of getting help.

Nobody here like /jp/ besides the people that petioned for a /jp/ DJT, yet all of those retards keep lurking here even though they complained and shitposted for a whole month that this place was entirely inadequate for DJT. Fuck them for dividing DJT and fuck them for their hypocritical ways.

Petitioned*

How active is their /djt/, anyway?
I'm guessing it's more active than our /djt/, but with more arguing?

I just went there to have a look.
Do these count as being active?

The post dissection is a bit tedious, but it's not bad overall. If someone posting absurdly wrong nonsense like "you learn nuance through production" in this thread, it would probably go uncorrected and beginners would be misled.

ここの外人さんは英文書いたのを添削してくれますか?

たぶんと思う
添削がほしい日本人わここによくいる (ある?いる?分からない :/ )

I've been reading Yotsuba and some of the colloquialisms have been killing me, in particular this.

あーあいつ用が入ったからこねえって

Is the (あー) just expressing exasperation? With the remaining meaning something along "Because a task (of his) came, he said he can't come." Is that right?

*came up
Yeah i think you got it more or less right(Don't take my word for it tho). If you watch a lot of anime you can just imagine someone voicing stuff like that to get a feeling of what they're saying.
Stuff like こねえって bother me a lot more than あー

>あー
Ah,
>あいつ
that nigga
>用が入ったから
because a task showed up
>こねえ
won't come
>って
quote

あーあいつ「用が入ったからこねえ」って
Oh yeah, she said "Something came up, so I can't go".

Does this help?

>あいつ
that nigga
I'm laughing so hard at this, good job user

Yeah, thanks. Also is determining what is quoted just through context here? Could it also mean "Something came up, so he said he can't come." ?

I think so. Have more self confidence user, you apparently know this.

If she was referring to a third person, yeah, it could work grammatically. The only information being transmitted here is "won't come because of errand", the rest is assumed to be already known by the listener.

But 's answer made me think: I can't really tell whether the quote is the whole 「用が入ったからこねえ」 bit as I said or if it's just 「こねえ」. Both could work.

Japanese: The Manga Way is great for learners who are really unfamiliar with these sorts of things.
mega.nz/#!6hlnVAYI!UFFH7L5QCW3Lm09nri0NqKh3z76F-v-ETxLjEx_PczE
As said, 自信持って

I'm mostly interested in novels and VNs, just thought that Yotsuba would be a good starting point. I'll probably give it a read to get a better feel for colloquialisms anyways, since I'm sure they're across all kinds media (probably less so than manga I hope).

Three questions. Going through the core deck. Word is give. Flash card says a-ge-ru. Girl pronounces it a-ne-ru. Why? This happens on other cards too. Hiragana spells out one word, yet one syllable has an altered pronounciation.

Also should I zoom in my browser when reading Japanese? It's hard to make out what the symbols are.

G is often produced nasally, with an "ng" sound, in Japanese. It's very easy to confuse with the other nasal vowels "n" and "m" for English speakers who aren't used to the language's sounds yet.

I mean nasal consonants, obviously.

バムプ

月 can be read as つき or げつ
年 can be read as ねん or とし

Is there any rule as to how it is read in words such as current year/every year/last year/next year or should I just memorize every use case? I always get confused on those readings.

つき is for "moon"
げつ/がつ is for month

ねん is for amount of years とし is for a words that have something to do with year such as "older" 年上 (としうえ)

毎月 (まいつき) means 'every month', though

I haven't seen any words using がつ for month yet, oddly enough.

Thanks for the clear up on the years, though. I hope it helps.

Isn't July > しちがつ?

I haven't got to months yet, but it is.

This is almost always the case. exceptions occur when words have changed over time "Every moon" is probably a phrase that is old as fuck and was used when they still used a lunar calender I guess. And so they use つき there.
Need some grammar help.

日本の女は綺麗じゃないでしょう

Can you just say 綺麗ない? when do you place ない after an adjective and when do you just put じゃない after a sentence to negate it? Or is it just a difference in writing/speaking style?

gatsu is the counter for month, so you use gatsu when naming the months

I think months go just [number] [がつ]

January > いちがつ
February > にがつ
etc.
Easy to remember, right?

Easier than weekdays, that's for sure.

kirei is na-adjective so you need the jya nai or de ha nai attached to end.. its sorta fine when speaking but its technically wrong and very informal

What's the difference between ななand しち when it comes to the number 7?

nothing. they both mean the same and you can use whichever one you like

I feel like Google translate is ruining my motivation to learn Japanese a little ;_;
Ever since Google introduced their new "neutral machine translation" algorithms last November, Google translate has been decent enough where I understand a lot of the plot and dialogue of short manga or doujin. Or at least try to guess what's going on from context.

Instead of being complete gibberish like in the past translated Japanese is now more comprehensible.

They can be both used when counting single digits. しち is more commonly used.

That's wrong when counting in multiple digits, なな has to be used.

ななじゅう
ななひゃく
ななせん
ななまん

That's because you're weak, your bloodline is weak and you won't survive the 冬

Don't willingly let yourself get cucked by the AI meme.

I actually noticed the reverse. When google introduced the neural machina translation it seems like it seriously crapped the bed.

It was so bad I don't even bother with google translation at all and just go look up the words/grammar being used I'm unfamiliar with.

for the number 7, eithers ones good. for counters, its different. but he asked about the number 7

i tried google translating a paper i wrote before and while some keywords are use and the general idea is there sorta, there's a handful of errors. of course its a great source to use though to help out

Numbers don't seem so hard to remember.

10-19 > Juu[number]
20-29 > [2]Juu[number]
30-39 > [3]Juu[number]
etc.
100 > Hyaku

ブラジルくんは昨日の/br/で話したブラジルくん?

よそモソを連れ込みやがって
What mean that phase?

It means you get this (You)

よそモン is 余所者, person from a different place, stranger, outsider. 連れ込む is to bring into. やがる is extra verb that makes it sound like you're angry at what someone else is doing.

>よそモソを連れ込みやがって
What are you doing, bringing some stranger in here?
The meaning might be different depending on context.

No. He is meming.

It says 外持つを連れ込みやがって

It's a fucking NTR phrase meaning that the speaker will take the reader's lover to a love/hotel NTR style.

This is a pretty basic question but how would you respond to someone saying ありがとう? Like how when someone here says thank you, you can reply with "no problem"

いいえ

Also when in doubt just act humble. Saying "no" to praise or when someone thanks/apologizes to you is almost always the correct way to react.

Dunno how I didn't know this before considering I have heard it multiple times before.
Thanks

it's only a matter of time before AI translation is as good as human. They can already beat us in chess.

You'd basically need human level AI for this to happen. Especially with context heavy language like Japanese.

The translation AI basically has to know what the words mean and what the grammar implies. And on top of that know what the story is about to actually use the correct contextual meaning for it.

Chinese is a hell of a lot easier to translate due to heavier use of kanji and being a slightly less contextual language.

For things like English->spanish/german/dutch though I am fairly sure that we will have 100% correct translation within 10 years. I have siblings that don't speak a word English but browse the entire internet with google translate English->Dutch and I wouldn't even notice it was computer translated if I didn't know any better.

Sorry, but that simply won't be possible. The amount of context and implications, multiple meanings, etc. is something only a human would be able to infer, 聞く being a prime example.

We're getting closer than you know. Look up word2vec, essentially you get a program to cram words into a highly multiple dimensional vector space and learn the connections between them allowing you to do vector operations on words for some interesting results. The typical example I've seen given is "King" - "Man" + "Woman" = "Queen" to give you a simple idea. The context of sentences themselves could be supplied as more dimensions in the vector space to help with highly context dependent words like 聞く. If humans can guess what 聞く means depending on the context then that means there are clues embedded in the surrounding the text that show what it means. You could run very simple statistical analyses and probably guess right 60% of the time just based on how often certain words show up near each meaning.

I think you mean go, they've been beating us in chess for decades. I remember learning about AI some years back and being taught that computers would never be able to beat humans at go, that it was impossible because the depth of possibilities was simply too vast. How times have changed.

This is already sorta what google translate does right now and it actually resulted in a less coherent translation.

I agree though eventually it's going to be cracked but look at This is almost a perfect example of japanese versatility. The first part of the sentence is written in hiragana and katakana meaning it can have a wide range of possible kanji there. Then it uses a word (連れ込(み)) with a wide range of different and really specific meanings.

This sentence could mean a lot of things as you can see by the guy that tried to translate it.

Yet if you know the context of this being Sup Forums and the amount of meme/jokes/trolls then you see what it's very likely to mean.

The translation AI doesn't just get a book or financial reports that have a fuckload of text. It would also get to translate individual sentences like that without context. Parts of spoken conversation where the context isn't understood without visual ques as well such as in visual novels/manga.

The method you propose is good to figure out things where all information is already available in the text provided. This is almost always not the case in Japanese. Most of the information is based on visual ques, preceding events or "common sense". Things which could realistically only be cracked by a human-level AI.

'stop what you've been grinding cause the ai might one day soon(tm) be better - promise!'
yeah nah

I know 600 and 3000 have special pronunciations, can't remember any others right now but there's probably a few

>ソビエト連邦
>ツビエト連邦
>ンビエト連邦
>シビエト連邦


ろっびゃく and さんぜん

There is not NTR.

>want to learn Japanese
>apparently still suck at English

Shouldn't it be "on the surface" or am I fucking retarded?

in certainly sounds weirder than on to me
but my english is pretty sus

These cards weren't made by native English speakers I'm sure.

Both "sound" right to me, personally. Are there not quite a few cases in which prepositions can be interchangeable in English? Anyway, don't worry about that and keep repping and reading.

ひろゆき がフランスに住んでいる理由
生きるのが簡単だと飽きちゃうから
youtube.com/watch?v=HZU_72e-Jjc

>Are there not quite a few cases in which prepositions can be interchangeable in English?
I don't know user, I learned English by playing video games and lurking Sup Forums.

I don't know much of the grammar, it just sounds wrong or right to me, which sometimes causes problems because it sounds wrong in my "German mind" while it's perfectly viable in English.

because we ”look in" something on the surface of the water? I always wonder whether they are intransitive verb + preposition + smt or phrasal verb + objective

I met a Japanese lady who likes kicking me in the balls

try the japanese thread for that

in this case how can I settle how that "in" works? the balls are that big enough to accommodate you? or being pushed into the balls by kick?

the latter

>行き is ゆき and いき
They both mean the same so which pronauciation do I use? Does it matter?

Okey thanks Lee Sensei

Use いき if you are male. This is the more common form in my (limited) experience.

thanks

だろうな。
普通だよ。飽きるというのはその人の言い方だけど、それを”ストレス”と呼ぶ人もいる。そして他人のせいにする。
結局それは飽きてるだけなのに、他の事をやろうとしないからなのだけど。

誰にもわからんネタ言うな > ソ連
俺がわかったのが奇跡

Well, gramps, deep learning/big data wasn't probably a concept back then, so that makes sense.

I suspect that uMatrix is preventing the Rikaisama popup from appearing when the cursor hovers over text. Does anyone know how to create a rule/solution in uMatrix to allow Rikaisama/Firefox extensions?

You say kanji exists to give meaning to words and shit but then how do you explain people talking to each other and understanding perfectly what they're saying?

No matter how it is written, it will sound the same when spoken, so why can't only hiragana and katakana be used in text when it will sound the same when spoken as if written with kanji thrown in as well?

Context.
No spaces.
The tone meme.

ソニアちゃんは暴の嫁です

If you think Japanese can just talk to each other without problems you are wrong.

Almost every (possibly even every) word is a homonym in Japanese. This means that you need an insane amount of context to even know what the word means that the person is saying.

Just look at Japanese TV. Screen is always filled with text with kanji as subtitles to show what word is meant.

Japanese people are even forced to have a different vocabulary when speaking because they use words that are easily recognized and not quickly confused even if there is a better word they know that they could use but could be misinterpreted. In written accounts of Japanese you don't have this limitation so you see far more sophisticated language being used. That's also one way to quickly hear difference between native and non-native speakers. Non-natives tend to use wording that is primarily only used in written Japanese and spoken Japanese interchangeably.

Basically the Japanese really fucked up the language by having such a small sample of distinguishable sounds in it. The Kanji was a coincidental blessing for more complex storytelling and deeper reasoning.

Go play a Pokemon game that is entirely kana written and notice how it picks deliberate words just to avoid confusing people.

僕の嫁です(言い直すの恥ずかしい)

When talking about reflections we tend to say "in". You look at your reflection "in" the mirror. When talking about the surface of a pond though I guess it can go both ways.

>暴の嫁
な、何?!

Actually, now that I think about it, how do you write stuttering in Japanese?