If your country isn't giving free money to people who will never get a job due to robots and automation replacing them then you're pretty much a non-country.
/ubi/ Universal Basic Income
Anthony Johnson
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Blake Rivera
Do any countries have UBI? I know a lot of people talk about it here but it's decades from actually being implemented in any way.
Also, this thread is going to get deleted by the janny
Mason Cox
Finland does
David Davis
...
Landon White
We're working on it lol
Surely this will work out in a province with 2x the debt of the state of California.
Ryan Robinson
The only way that can work is with more than enough people on the maintenance of plants. And that can only happen with quality education. As time passes, it becomes clear that technology, education, science, etc., are the keys to human progress.
Robert Murphy
What it comes down to is the efficiency of the means of production.
Technology is making that go up.
After that it's a question of choosing between taxation of the means of production, or joint ownership of the means of production.
Isaiah Lopez
Technology is very far from making even a large portion of workers obsolete.
I remember hearing that by the year 2000 we'll have flying cars and robot maids.
Jordan Perry
>country gives free money away
>entire population of Africa migrates to said country
Commies will have to choose between UBI and open borders
Chase Torres
We have never had open borders. Our immigration policy is skills-based and has specific quotas balanced to birth-rates.
Basically -- we only take the people we actually need, plus a few legit refugees that successfully apply.
Brody Collins
>We have never had open borders. Our immigration policy is skills-based and has specific quotas balanced to birth-rates.
Is that the policy that rejects white, upper middle-class Brazilian engineers and accepts Somali goat herders?
Ethan Brooks
>Technology is very far from making even a large portion of workers obsolete.
90% of the population isn't agrarian anymore and that's due to technology. Technology is making more and more people obsolete than before, only in the past it would open up other job opportunities. (Better tools for farming meant factories to produce said equipment)
The issue is when that stops becoming true, that is technology opens up fewer jobs than it produces.
Jonathan Murphy
Those are refugee applicants -- which fits under a specific quota. Every country take refugees, you know.
Ethan Butler
And this makes jobs either easier to perform productively or opens up new jobs.
Such as accounting for example which instead of making accountants obsolete it just made their job easier and more efficient.
Nolan Thompson
>engineers
We've already got lots. Fuck off.
Meanwhile, these goats aren't herding themselves.
Brayden Murphy
Business idea #4367: self-herding goats
Caleb Walker
Jobs becoming easier to perform goes hand in hand with jobs netting greater results. If one person can produce as much as five, then obviously those jobs will be made redundant.
It's only going to become more and more common, too. The service and waiting industry can already be heavily automated and only hasn't been due to the elderly. (I don't know about where you live, but even in my shitty country town McDonald's has self-serving computers and so do supermarkets).
>instead of making accountants obsolete it just made their job easier and more efficient.
Which means fewer accountants. If they're more efficient, that logically means one accountant can service more customers than previously.
Hudson Torres
>The service and waiting "industry"
And what's the problem? Handing plates of food then taking a generous 35% tip for the excruciatingly difficult task of bringing food to a table after taking an order is useless for progression of a society. We can get those people jobs that actually matter.
Justin White
No country has open borders
Colton Watson
UBI is a counter-revolutionary ploy meant to stave off crisis as automation deprives the underclass of their labor power. Once the workers no longer have that leverage, the capitalists are free to rape you as hard as they like, and you'll have no way to fight back.
Jack Rogers
>that image
I laughed, then I cried a little. That really is what political discussion has been reduced to.
Adam Morgan
How many years till I can live like one of the humans from WALL-E?
Grayson Hernandez
>And what's the problem?
>We can get those people jobs that actually matter.
The fact that we can't get those people the jobs 'that matter'. Even if we could, they too will go obsolete eventually.
In my country, they have recently been pushing the idea of a 4-day full time work week to help spread jobs out. And the New Economic Foundation has promoted the idea of a 20 hour work week for the same reasons. There just isn't enough for everyone and it's going to get worse.
Andrew Cooper
bout tree fiddy
Nathaniel Rodriguez
Luxury communism would enforce exercise and healthy eating.
Eli Rivera
Like Japan?
Josiah Hill
>implying when automation completely dominates labor that the global elite won't kill us all
Jackson Edwards
but then who will they sell to?
more likely it will be luxury communism plus providers and corporations who are stupidly rich by comparison.
Daniel Reyes
>Every country take refugees, you know.
Almost every country :^)
William Hill
Every civilised country
Ayden Powell
>people who will never get a job due to robots and automation replacing them
Literally a meme. Why would anyone have motivation to work if they get free money?
And meanwhile Estonians are stealing your jobs.
Brayden Hernandez
Arbeit macht frei you filthy commie
Ayden Peterson
Because working is fun and safisfying?
That's why we make opensource projects after work and on weekends.
Jaxon Hughes
a monstrously retarded idea
Charles Russell
>robots and automation replacing them
remove the digital jew.
Alexander Gomez
Someone want to post that billboard in Africa urging people to move to Finland because "You may rape all you want--you will not be punished"?
Carter Gomez
>
Kayden Campbell
>Before I begin, I want you to refer to this page: bls.gov
>To summarize we Americans work primarily in these areas:
>1. Factory work (8%)
>2. Construction (4%)
>3. Retail (10%)
>4. Transportation (3%)
>5. Business Services (13%)
>6. Healthcare (12%)
>Next, I would like to quote you this statistic: “The maximum unemployment rate during the Great Depression was 25%.”
>The sum of the percentages I give above is 50%. You be the judge on what percentage of the areas I am going to discuss below will likely be out of a job in the near future.
Oliver Hall
Do you use Amazon Prime? It’s pretty great right? How are they able to do it so cheaply? It’s because it’s largely automated now. Over the past few years, Amazon has been quietly laying off thousands of employees and replacing them with machines.
techrepublic.com
Amazon currently employs over 200,000 people, most of whom will be out of a job in less than five years. Right now, you go to their website, you order something. That signals a AGV to go over and pick it up in the warehouse which then takes it over to another AGV (automated guided vehicle) that in turn takes it over to the auto packager which in turn sends it to be sorted and packaged.
I’m not talking about some future technology either. Did you get something from Amazon Prime recently? Look at the box you received. You will see an MSI code and a Code-128 code (very similar) along with a Datamatrix code (a box with graphical blotches). Right now, some of this is still handled by a person. But this will soon be completely automated.
Right now, the Code 128 code is used by UPS or Fed Ex staff (people) to load trucks and get them to you. But this is not going to last much longer. The transportation industry is already in process of being automated. You don’t hear much on this publicly because no one wants to talk about it. But this isn’t a 10 or 20 year away thing. This transformation is happening right now.
Camden Hughes
Products and goods will soon be transported to you through autonomous vehicles. I’m not talking about drones. That’ll happen too but that’s a distraction. I mean that UPS trucks and Fed Ex trucks will soon be autonomous. Loaded at the warehouse by machines and transported to you by AFVs (autonomous freight vehicles).
And even if you think “how will they get up to my doorstep” remember most shipments occur from business to business who have their own loading docks and warehouses. Moving stuff from point A to point B is a huge part of our employment.
Retail, where a lot of people now work, is going to be hit soonest, hardest and most obviously. We are familiar with self-checkouts but that’s really not that big of a deal. It’s the stocking that is going to go away and you won’t even notice. Walmart, Target, you name it, will quietly and not-so-gradually replace their stock people with machines. Read a bar code, go to the proper location in the store and place it. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Chain restaurants? The only reason why McDonalds and Burger King haven’t automated already is the relatively low minimum wage. But that’s going away. Kiosks will replace the order taking and the food preparation will be handled by machines. And machines in 2016, already do voice recognition better than most humans for the drive through (that’s something I never would have thought possible even 5 years ago). And people will be happy for this because it’ll be more convenient and the results more consistent. They’ll never “fuck you at the drive through” because the order will be perfect every time.
Easton Ward
What about office jobs? They’re safe right? No. Again, I want to emphasize that I am not talking about some “20 years from now” thing. I am telling you that this automation revolution is happening as you read this. It’s not something to prepare for in the future. It’s already upon us. And with that in mind, Walmart just announced that it is cutting 7,000 office jobs.
fortune.com
These are administrative jobs. Accounting jobs. All those jobs that involve paperwork, inventory management, producing invoices, handling payroll. Do these jobs sound familiar? They’re not going away in the future. They’re going away right now. And it’s accelerating.
Today, you walk into a Walmart and pick up a can of soup off the shelf. That soup was placed there by a person. You probably still go to a person to check it out because you have a bunch of stuff and it’s still a pain to do self-checkout. Nevertheless, everything you bought is automatically deducted from Walmart’s inventory. The acquisition of that item and its purchase doesn’t require people anymore so it was automated.
But relatively soon, every item, from food to your clothes, will have a tiny passive RFID tag in it. You’ll simply walk through a checkout and everything will be deducted automatically (for those with a NFC device like an iPhone or an Android phone). There will still be a person handling stuff for old people. But most people will naturally prefer to take their cart full of stuff through the RFID scanner and have it handled automatically.
Jaxson Jenkins
If you’re feeling stressed and want to go to the doctor, well, they’re going to be automated away too soon. And this will be a good thing for everyone. Today’s doctors will become more focused on dealing with patients’ needs while the machines handle the diagnosing and prescription writing.
You, reading this right now, when was the last time you went to the doctor not knowing what you already had? You probably just needed the prescription and had to wait. The machines, networked with each other across the world and able to sample billions of people’s anonymous data will make Dr. House look like an amateur and prescribe you with what you need vastly faster than having to wait for the doctor.
However, this won’t be good news for a lot of people in the health industry. Your doctor today with the thriving practice will be fine. He or she will save up and buy these diagnostic machines that will handle the vast majority of cases he or she currently handles. But those next generation doctors? They’re in for a rough time. Those in the medical profession can comment below and explain the problem a lot better than I can.
William Flores
What about lawyers? They’re screwed. As someone who routinely gets sued (intellectual property is a mine field), I have a lot of experience with lawyers. The most expensive part, by far, is discovery. This is the part where each party sifts through the other’s sides stuff to determine what bullshit to put into their motions to convince a jury that their narrative of the case is the correct one. 99% of that time is wasted. Machines could handle that 99%.
It is unlikely that there will be such a thing as a paralegal in 20 years. They’ll go the way of the gas station attendant.
Now, I’m not suggesting all these jobs are going to be gone in 5 years or even 20 years. Not all of them. But a lot of them. And unlike in the past, there’s no job for these people to go to. There’s no “training” for a new job because this time, the machines aren’t creating a new type of job in their wake, they are simply replacing the existing jobs without creating a new one.
Camden Ortiz
We are not ready for this. We are oblivious now and we will remain oblivious until it’s far too late for our society to adapt carefully.
People will continue to be oblivious even as they watch their malls close down just like people shrugged when their bookstores went away.
time.com
They’ll continue to be oblivious when their neighbor’s kid loses their job at the coffee shop because there’s a machine that makes the perfect Mocha Latte every single time.
They’ll still ignore it even as their sister’s husband loses his job at DHL (the world’s largest logistic company).
They’ll only notice when their job at the local dentist’s office handling appointments and other office duties suddenly, without notice, disappears because Dr. Benning, such a great guy, has bought a Wavenet Office bot that can call patients to make appointments, reschedule, and handle all the tasks they previously did.
David Cruz
And what about the unemployed? Think that they’ll just raise up a mob and take on the 5% of the population who owns the means of production now? Think again. The one area automation is already doing very well is security.
The new uber class (calling them rich isn’t even the right term at that stage) will be way ahead of the mob. They’ll have machines to protect their holdings, homes and families from the rabble. So those who think “they’ll have to do something for everyone else or they’ll be a revolution” think again. Don’t assume a universal basic income is a definite.
digitaltrends.com
knightscope.com
Isaiah Gutierrez
autism
Jordan Thompson
If your country isn't giving free money to NIGGERS who will never get a job due THEIR LAZINESS and LACK OF PATRIOTISM then you're pretty much a non-country.
Fix'd