Wait let me get something straight here, so in The Prestige, towards the end, after Danton gets his machine from Tesla...

Wait let me get something straight here, so in The Prestige, towards the end, after Danton gets his machine from Tesla... he knows he's going to drown every night and be replaced by a copy?

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Yes.

No, he gets teleported. The copy immediately drowns.

Or is he drowning his copies? I haven't seen this in years

he doesn't know if he's getting drowned or his copy is

Yes and no.

"It took courage. It took courage to climb into that machine every night, not knowing...if I'd be the man in the box...or in the prestige."

>or in the prestige."

Should be "or the prestige*"

It doesn't matter which one drowns. The copy will have the memories of the real one and will think he is the original one.

The point is he doesn't know. Also that he uses the first matter replicator for a dumb magic trick instead of literally anything else.

hes the one getting drowned, thats the whole point, thats how commited he is, he is going to knowingly go through the pain every single night for his craft

Or was he lying in his journal since he knew batman would read it and it was all an act and nobody drown until the one time when he framed batman by killing his double from earlier in the movie who you clearly saw had different earlobes from the main wolverine?

maybe he's afraid the device won't work one day he'd just drown.

You should really refrain from post something this stupid again

tell that to the one drowning

Either that or that he teleports and his double drowns. and he will never know witch.

What's the point of him even drowning the copy can't he just make one and do what the other guy had spent his time trying to do?

Hugh Jackman never teleported. All the stuff with Tesla was a ruse to trick Christian Bale. Jackman did his trick the same as always with his double falling down and being fine. He hired blind people and wrote in his journal to trick Bale and lure him under the stage to investigate. Then the night he saw Bale sneaking around he put the water tank underneath to kill his double and frame Bale for murder. You can see just before Jackman falls into the water tank that his earlobes are different which was referenced earlier on as being the difference between him and the double they found to help with his trick. everything related to Tesla was being read from Jackmans journal and is part of his trick against Bale. There is no magic or science or anything involved

He was trying to relive his wife's death, because Cutter told him about a sailor who described drowning to him; Cutter says the sailor said it was like going home.

Then we learn at the end Cutter lied to comfort Angier.

Thought we were rid of you.

huh, if thats true the movie was deeper than I gave it credit for

How is any of it wrong?

How do you explain all the tanks with bodies at the end, when the theatre is burning?

There called props, he had them leave the theatre every night with the blind people carrying them out so Bale could see. Then he had to store them somewhere

Did David Bowie demand he have a great entrance in all the movies he was in


I mean

>Walking in through electricity
>entering windows as an owl
>Crash landing on the planet

That's like saying a clone of you is you.

You seen tons of boxes in the end insinuating there were a lot of dead copies.

Or the shot of all the hats at the beginning?

No you see Tesla and his assistant made a bunch of hats and put them outside the estate to fool Angier on his way out into buying the machine.

This is basically the same question i have about the teleporters in star trek..

Is the person at the other end the original or a copy.

How do you explain that the difference between Hugh Jackman the magician and Hugh Jackman the magicians double is pointed out to be their earlobes, and then at the end when Hugh Jackman is falling into the water you see it's the doubles earlobes? If it was clones they'd be the normal ones, it can't be an accident since it would require effort on the filmmakers part to do it. In a movie about stage magicians why do you think the is an actual cloning/teleporting machine instead of just normal magician stuff?

Is this movie worth watching if you already know the twist? Honestly it seems pretty retarded to think that someone with access to a cloning machine would use it to perform retarded stage tricks.

Not him, but say you are going into a machine and you have no idea how it works, except that by the end there will two (You)s.You hear rumors that it may transfer you at a random place 10 ft away and make a clone at the place you were before, or create a clone 10 ft away from you. The experiment is done and in the end there are two people standing opposite of each other at the distance of 10 ft. How can you know who's the clone and who's the original when your consciousness is the same. You are identical. There is practically no clone. It is even easier to say something like that for the situation of the movie because the one dies immediately. You can always assume the surviving one is the "original", but "original" as a word loses its meaning and value in this experiment.
Tesla never describes how it works, just a few experiments show us.

The cloning machine isn't the only twist

>Is this movie worth watching

Nope, Nolan is a hack

youtu.be/Ajl7WjXIIK0

It's amazing

>Pretty retarded to think that someone with access to a cloning machine would use it to perform retarded stage tricks.
Thats largely the point of the movie, Hugh Jackman's character is a total fanatic

There's another twist you haven't learned yet. You oughta watch it, a good film about obsession.

Well, watch the movie to see why he used it for that reason. Also don't listen to . It doesn't matter if he you don't like him or not, it's objectively very well made.

If they had the exact same consciousness, they would both experience things at the same time, which clearly is not happening as Danton didn't know what it was like to drown, even with the same memories and the same physical characteristics there is still uniqueness to an individual.

Yes it's really good, stellar performances give by Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, David Bowie and and Michael Caine.

youtube.com/watch?v=o4gHCmTQDVI

>If they had the exact same consciousness, they would both experience things at the same time

What are you basing this off of? Surely you're not suggesting souls exist, are you?

He has the memories of every previous clone. Since the one in the tank dies and is never used again, its memories end there. The surviving one continues, and so on. So in his mind he has stood on the stage and ended up surviving hundreds of times without incident.

Even when you know everything that happens it's worth a second watch. I picked up on things I didn't the first time around when viewing it a second time. It's like watching it with a whole new perspective, so it in itself is a unique experience.

Think he means the same consciousness until the point of teleportation, not that they stay linked somehow

If they have the same exact consciousness they would both be experiencing the other's sensations. That's like suggesting identical twins are the same conscious wise.

A clone with your memories is not you, it's just a physical copy of you with your memories. Memories do not makeup consciousness.

Even though it is a somewhat cheesy movie watch the movie The Seventh Day sometime.

A clone of you is you

>It is.

Think about it. He steps into a machine.
Two people come out at 2 different locations. One in the tank, another in the back of the room.

They both have identical memories. The last memory they have is stepping into the machine.
They would both think they're the real one.

See:

This isn't difficult, man.

When in fact he has died hundreds of times and is a fool to think he was the man before, he is a mere copy. I'm pretty sure the guy in the tank was pretty fucking pissed as well as the first clone which he shot, and the clone was screaming wait, wait. Each clone is unique in that it is a separate entity.

>They would both think they're the real one.
But thats an illusion in of itself because they are not the same exact person, they merely seem to be.

I would argue copy because they are being dismantled and reassembled thus being remade.

Don't ever watch the Usual Suspects since you guys clearly cannot comprehend the idea of the Unreliable Narrator

>A clone of you is you
But it's not you as it may act differently or make different choices, free will negates the similarities.

>Waah no one is replying to me I better make a snide remark

Either way the original is dead.

When he first experiments with it, the one who stays in the machine picks up a pistol and shoots the transported one.

Then of course after the one who stays drowns over and over.

Was there ever any actual teleportation, or was a copy just being produced elsewhere and the original always drowned?

Quantum teleportation will never be teleportation as we know it. It'll be instant cloning and the remaining copy will need to be destroyed as you can't actually transfer matter via quantum entanglement, just information on the state of single qubits.

It's more likely the original stays in the machine, and a copy is produced elsewhere. Rather then the original being teleported, and then also making a copy in the original location.

The fact the very original person, the one who exists before the experiment, makes sure their experiences will be totally different right after the experiment doesn't change anything.
>[Consciousness] has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind
I didn't know it included ability to experience and feel. Just think of it without these two. They are the same person, think they are the same person, but after the point of the experiment, they have different experiences.
Actually the scene where he first meets his clone, made me think: Why didn't both of them try to kill each other? You are supposed to be a product of your former self and experience, they had the same experiences, they were both dealing with the same situation, seeing a clone of them. Why didn't they both try the same thing? Can anybody find the scene, I can't.

Says who and also explain television then.

Imagine your life up to this point, your singular conscience, your memories, and every aspect of your identity. You have sole ownership of this singular thread from birth to this very moment. Suddenly there's a flash of light and your split into two people. Both you and the person standing across from are identical. You both have the same conscience and memories up to this point and you each feel you are the original and have sole ownership of this existence. You are closer to the gun and able to kill the other you. You feel justified because you feel you are the real you but in reality the other person was also the real you and had the same conscience and memories up to that point. The victim is just as much you as you are. If you, the survivor, split again than both of you would have lived the same life up to this point including shooting the "other you" moments earlier. Once again, the person closest to the gun kills the other and considers themselves lucky that they survived twice. The truth is you are just the string of consciousnesses that hasn't been broken yet. The original you turned into both the survivor and the victim when you split just as the survivor became the survivor and the victim after splitting a second time. The you that was lucky to survive twice will go on to be both the next survivor and the next victim when you split a 3rd time. Danton always worried whether or not he would be the one to drown or not when the truth was he was both. Whatever string of consciousnesses survived would always end up being both the victim and the survivor the next time he performed the trick.

Why do you keep calling him Danton? His name was Angier

youtu.be/pdxucpPq6Lc?t=56s

this explains it

>Why didn't both of them try to kill each other?
he left the gun near to were he step into the machine. One of him was within arms reach of the gun and the other was on the opposite side of the room.

He went by The Great Danton and Angier, he was called both interchangeably.

except that the man climbing up those stairs every night has never drowned

Why did they make Thomas Edison to be downright evil in this movie? Was he a jackass in real life?

Why the need for so many tanks then?
Couldn't the blind people carry the same tank each time? He only needed to fool Bale once...
What about Angier's surprise when he gets killed in his own theatre at the end? Was this part of his master plan too?

The fact that the Professor says to him that he did horrible things was referencing that he kept killing his clones.

Says me who had several courses on quantum mechanics and quantum physics while getting my masters in technical physics at the university of vienna.

>explain television
What? Television is information being sent the old fashioned way, via electromagnetic radiation or wire.

Until the next the next night when that string of consciousnesses would both be the one that drowned and the one that walked down the stairs. The survivor always became both the next victim and the next survivor.

He didn't know when Bale would be watching and Bale could watch them leave multiple nights. They also couldn't have them bring them in before hand in case he saw. Of course he was surprised at the end since he thought bale died in prison

They laughed at Jules Vern too.

so you're saying if you were to be copied one of you might cease to be a retard?

>Why the need for so many tanks then?
He wanted that vault with all the dead versions of him to be a reminder to himself of the sacrifices he had made.

why didn't he just clone himself and let one copy wait with a gun under stage or something baka

nigga killed himself dozens of times for literally no reason

typical nolanesque pottery

>why didn't he just clone himself and let one copy wait with a gun under stage or something baka

See:

>You're familiar with the phrase "man's reach exceeds his grasp"? It's a lie: man's grasp exceeds his nerve.

Why didn't he just clone himself 9000 times and siege batman's apartment?

it wasn;t for his craft it was to try and out maneuver Borden but he failed and was the inferior magician for wanting recognition over actual skill.

No.

He says every time he steps into the machine he doesn't know whether he's being teleported and the copy is left to drown, or it's the copy that's teleported. He explains this in his speech about how that took courage.

Basically, he's has no idea if he is the original Danton or a copy of a copy of a copy of... Etc

Yeah this is what i'm agreeing with.
This goes against the theory, supported by some, that the only guy who died in the tanks was the drunk double they used earlier. The many filled tanks are a testament to his commitment.
They got rid of the drunk double after Bale destroyed Angier's trick live.

>supported by some

It is one person.

What about

Kek

You're not seriously dumb enough to fall for that? It shows all his copies in dead water tanks when he gets killed at the end

Because a magician never uses props...

Post multiple high resolution images of the different earlobes.

Or the "teleportation" is a mere illusion to him, because he and his consciousness are being copied. Perhaps he was never teleported but just thought he was.

The machine isn't the twist, it's how bale does the trick that's the spoiler

People get caught up in the philosophy behind Jackman's wicked drowning cycle but I think the most important reality of the final scheme is that it doesn't truly matter what Jackman is experiencing, he's been dead this entire time - the loss of his wife completely killed him as a man and what's left as a total lunatic and fanatic will to create bizarre torture designs for the sake of a partially imaged rivalry.

I think this is arguably Bale's best film too. Honestly I kind of tear up every time he hugs his daughter, it's a big relief.

Also I think if this wasn't directed by Nolan it would probably be a top ten for a lot of people on Sup Forums. It's really well made and for a film constructed around twists and reveals it has a massive amount of rewatchability.

What I don't understand is how the fuck did Borden not stumbled across that mass grave of Angiers earlier since he was shadowing the blind men every night.

That's not how it works, even in Nolan's narrative. wolverine's darker eyes and heartlessness near the end was intended to portray him as a soulless creature.

which could be easily verified as such, no.

The whole point of the movie is both magicians are letting their on cession with out doing each other consume them, but that point it make perfect sense Danton would just use the machine for a magic trick, because that's all he cares about.

Was Borden not equally deranged for the way he treated Sarah and I forget the other woman's name. I mean you could argue he was just as evil as Angier.

>since he was shadowing the blind men every night.

Was he? My recollection has him going underneath the stage and gets framed is the first time he ever did anything.

Did Borden's character really not remember how he tied the knot for Angier's wife, was he lying, or was the one who didn't tie the knot the first to answer the question so the other just copied his answer?

He does but his assistant shadows the blind men and sees them carrying the case, only covered away every night. Youy would think he would keep following until he stumbled upon the grave.

Seems like an actual case of a Bravo Nolan moment.

How do you know they weren't verified to be fake after the movie ended?

Doers Michael Caine love magic or something? He also recently appeared in Now you See me and Now you see me 2.

>How can he knot know!

Because Borden is two people, and it is really a measure to confirm that it is wolverine who doesn't know this.

vrabo nolan

Hello. Can you please do this: