Is capitalism destroying music as an artform?

Is capitalism destroying music as an artform?

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washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm
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how would that even happen?

I'd like to say yes for the obvious reasons, but I can't because we have no reference point of music that wasn't made in a capitalist frame

Yes.

Nope.
Capitalism brings survival of the fittest to center stage of creative endeavors.
It actually is accelerating the progression and refinement of music.
Already thousands of musicians exist who are head and shoulders above the old classical composers of note.
And those guys were head and shoulders above the couple decent musicians who ever existed before them.
We must continue to open more enclosures to capitalist perfection.

You should fuck yourself

>Already thousands of musicians exist who are head and shoulders above the old classical composers of note.
name one and try not to embarrass yourself too badly

>It actually is accelerating the progression and refinement of music.
>Already thousands of musicians exist who are head and shoulders above the old classical composers of note.
Have you ever considered doing standup?

Im pretty sure he's joking. Not 100% sure though

I agree user
Capitalism fuels a sense of competitiveness that can hardly be achieved otherwise. Even though I'm against the existence of monopolies and olygopolies, I'm somewhat right-ish concerning economics. Unfortunately I haven't analyzed how music comes into play enough to give a strong opinion on it, but I hope that someday, someone can create a fairly reliable study on the case

Not really. There are tons of shitty "artists" in every high school/college who suck and thanks to capitalism can't sustain themselves off of their worthless music. There are a lot of awful mainstream artists as well, but there are far more awful "underground" artists.

Who is in the right here?

Capitalism is so bad for art that governments have to fund it

You forget the part where corporations have a massive leverage and can manipulate/dictate taste of masses for profit.

Neocons/neolibs sold our morality and dignity to corporations for illusion of power.

>industrial society capitalism
>related to the survival of the ""fittest""

Also, I must add that there is absolutely no reason for artists to support communism or socialism if they wish to continue in their trade as freely as they are now

Literally no economic system is conducive to art as a means of living. Capitalism doesnt prevent people from making good music, its just that shitty accessible music will be the most popular. Literally no one is preventing you from making or hearing the music that you like

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm

Art transcends economy.
Consumption of art does not.

tell that to money launders selling pieces of shit for 100s of millions.

What does that have to do with what I said? In capitalism everyone can buy whatever music they want to. In communism all the music would be owned and promoted by the state giving even less variety to choose from.

Want to make anti communist music in a communist state? Good luck with that

Creation and respect of art is beyond economy.

You both used examples of consumption of art.

what if i want to make music questioning holohox in capitalist society?

Children who think that art should cater to their tastes

Also, first user
Are you treating an article written by a terrorist as reliable information? Sorry buddy but Naruto ended a few months ago

>Capitalism brings survival of the fittest
>Accelerating progression and refinement
Which is exactly why bringing back old shit is the one of the commercially viable things you can do in pop music right now and superhero movies dominate the box office

Youd probably get individual protests, but the state would do nothing to stop you. You could easily get it published on some skin head record label or make your own label

>Creation and respect of art is beyond economy
Youre confusing me. Arent we discussing the way the economic system would effect artists and consumption of art? Isnt that the entire point of this thread?

What you don't seem to realize is that Ted Kaczysnki is a mathematical and philosophical genius who used bombings to gain attention to his manifesto.

Yes.

I didn't expect you to read it anyway. I know reading is a Herculean triumph for most people.

No label would sign me, no radio would play me couldn't sell my music on itunes. And in many countries I would get prison sentence.

Your capitalists can, what communist can't is stupid notion based on nothing but propaganda.

>is incentivizing record labels to follow money-making trends destroying music as an artform
>is awarding people who make the most money in music ruining music as an artform
>are contracts between bands and labels obligating the band to not fuck with the formula ruining music as an art form?
I don't know, you tell me
Capitalism isn't the worst thing to happen to music but you cannot deny overexposure of certain kinds of music has been trapping the rest of music in the dark

Mate, there are skinhead record labels in southern USA that have bands with lyrics advocating the murder of blacks and racewar. Don't use speculation as evidence

>Your capitalists can, what communist can't is stupid notion based on nothing but propaganda
And history. Show me some of the great works of art (not propaganda) produced in communist states and how the state was conducive to it.

>no record label would sign me
Then make your own

>no radio would play me
Because no one would like your fucking music. You honestly think you should get air time even though no likes your music? If you want something that sells well then write something not horribly controversial.

>nobody likes me
>it means my art is lesser art

this is how capitaldrones think

>And in many countries I would get prison sentence.
Not in America. But I can guarantee that making any anti communist work in ANY communist state will get you stuck in a gulag

Tarkovsky
László Krasznahorkai

Marxism–Leninism is not a communism.

it's more complex than that i think, but in the end yea. capitalism creates an art-economy and allows massive selling of artistic good and by its basis causes a "normalification" (idk the correct world) of common taste. popular music is calibrated to sell, in short. but on the other hand, capitalism allows/causes criticism, and that shows in music too (underground, counterculture, as well as contemporary classial). i think that capitalism reduces the variety of forms for most musical productions and most people, but also forces the creation of musical forms that can criticise this system. but as says, it's hard to judge
tldr: capitalism kills variety but also causes countercultures.


you"re not wrong but on the first years of the communist regime in russia the art world was booming because of communist ideals. schools were created that were years in advance in their functionning (Unovis, Sfomas) and the whole avant-garde was at the head of the regime's cultural policies. after a few years it turned into a huge shitshow though

when you say that you're just showing that you have 0 idea of what you're talking about. care to gie names?

>it means my art is lesser art
I didnt say that. Theres no objective method of evaluating how much worth music has. Your musics worth is subjective to every individual. Just because you made music doesnt mean you should automatically get paid the equal amount of every other artist, especially if everybody hates your music and you didnt contribute shit to society

Marxism and lennism is a set of ideaologies that communism is based on. Jesus christ, leftists dont even understand their own fucking ideaologies

>Tarkovsky

>In 1965, he directed the film Andrei Rublev about the life of Andrei Rublev, the fifteenth-century Russian icon painter. Andrei Rublev was not, except for a single screening in Moscow in 1966, immediately released after completion due to problems with Soviet authorities. Tarkovsky had to cut the film several times, resulting in several different versions of varying lengths.

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yah the soviet union was super conducive to his art, right? Fucking retard

when did i not agree with that?

Marx critiqued ideology you fucking nerd. Communism is the real movement which abolishes the present stage of things

Thats not what he's saying you mong. Jesus christ, righties can't even read properly

i'm btw, not

>t
>Tarkovsky had worked on the screenplay for this film since 1967, under the consecutive titles Confession, White day and A white, white day. From the beginning the film was not well received by Soviet authorities due to its content and its perceived elitist nature. Russian authorities placed the film in the "third category," a severely limited distribution, and only allowed it to be shown in third-class cinemas and workers' clubs. Few prints were made and the film-makers received no returns

Being an artist in a communist state sounds grand!

That response was a mistake. I accidentally clicked your tag before I submitted that post

>soviet union = ideal communist state
You really know your stuff user

The tag was a typo

I know, you're still wrong

yep

>In communism all the music would be owned and promoted by the state giving even less variety to choose from.
lol

I asked for evidence that communism was conducive to art. He provided Tarkovsky, and I pointed out why thats garbage evidence.

Also fuck off with this "ideal" communist state. You realize every single person has a different idea of "ideal"? What gives you the right to claim your ideal state is the state everyone should live in?

Its true though. All art would have to be state approved

Ideal as in the ideal communism under which it was originally thought, not my personal ideal

>communist
>state

This is wrong, because better music does not equal better sales. Hence pop music.

How? Youre honestly going to say that marxism-lenninism isnt the ideological frame work for communism?

Read Marx my friend.

You don't have to fake laugh as you stare dead at your screen slightly disgruntled, dude.
I know it's most likely hard for someone who probably is unable to view love as anything more than a primitive leeching for power dynamics, but please try. You may enjoy life more.

What marxism-leninism means is lenin's interpretation of marxism. He doesn't mean marxism or leninism

>Ideal as in the ideal communism under which it was originally thought,
Which has literally never worked because its incredibly easy for dictators to come out of communism

Theres other definitions of communism besides Marx's

>Theres other definitions of communism besides Marx's

Please say em my dude

>All art would have to be state approved
I think you are talking about a dictatorship.

Also:
>communism
>state
pick one

>Which has literally never worked because its incredibly easy for dictators to come out of communism
I'm not in favour of it for that exact reason. Doesn't mean I can't defend the ideal situation

Also, I could provide plenty of examples of great artists dying completely unknown in capitalist countries, in fact, many of the most influential and significant artists of the 20th century died in the streets and/or unknown.

I have. He belives capitalism is a catalyst for socialism and eventually capitalism. He believes capitalism is the final stage to eliminating the classes.

Again, I reiterate, its the ideological framework for communism

The crux of the issue is whether art is more important than the identity-profession of an "artist".

If you have emotionally invested yourself into the social achievement of being artist, you will want a living for it. It's a self-defeating position.

I see your out of arguments
>Also, I could provide plenty of examples of great artists dying completely unknown in capitalist countries,
"Great artist" is entirely subjective. And your moving the goal post

>marxism–Leninism, Leninism, Dengism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, Council communism, Luxemburgism, Anarchist communism, Christian communism, Islamic socialism, Technicism, and various currents of Left communism.
Look up the defintions yourself. Some have states, some dont

There's no such thing as a communist state. If there's a state, it's not
>real communism

So the USSR

wasn't

>REAL
>communism

He heavily critiqued ideology my dude. How is historical materialism ideology?

>only my incredibly idealistic view of communism thats never existed in reality is the real one!

>How is historical materialism ideology?
Its a made up (borderline supernatural) idea

Ah yes anthropology is made up, thank you. Debunk it for me senpai

Sup Forums should never talk about politics you're all so fucking dumb

wew

Is every idea thats made up also an ideology hmmm

I see your disgruntled
"Great artist" relative to influence and retained respect. And the point being that you criticized communism (which I'm not a communist by the way) for using a censor, yet the infrastructure of "art" in capitalist society continuously sets their own standards for what people will listen too. It's only recently with the internet that smaller artists have begun gain the ability to be seen and that's only in response to the fact that it's virtually impossible to make it into the public eye without a big time record company pushing you along on a leash. Oh yes, HAHAHA Tarkovsky was censored by the government, but we're basically being censored by the corporations which refuse to provide anything of value and anything beyond the same handful of people who, by the way, don't even make their own music.

So yes, now you can record and distribute online for cheaper, except everyone will just pirate and stream you anyways so now you're broke poor and need to find a "real job" in the "real world". Look at Michael Gira. He's the frontman of one of the most well known bands in, loosely using this term, Underground music and has been for decades. He lives in a generic middle class home. So yes, you can be self released, but you won't be an artist. People will laugh at you, "You're an artist? So why are you working at Best Buy?"
It's a trap.

You mean the original fucking version you retard?

I mean, we have a guy singing "Play that song... The one that makes me go all night long..." over "Chopsticks" on the radio right now. Art might as well be non existent to the public eye.

maybe but the proletarianization of music probably had a bigger impact.

fuck all of you stupid commies

...

in the mainstream yes.

the average listener doesn't know shit about art and that rewards the most middle of the road musicians with an audience.

On the other hand the internet allows a greater number of artists to create and publish their work.

So the overly idealistic version that has never existed in reality?

>b-but greed isnt part of human nature, capitalism makes people greedy!

>low-key muh evil capitalism commie thread
Reddit needs to leave this board.

>human nature

dead meme

>everyone who disagrees with me or has the ability to argue in favour of an idea they don't fully agree with (which is what most people here arguing in favour of communism is), need to get off of my safe space

Why is Sup Forums the only board infested with retarded leftys?

You're a dead

Lefties*

There is still music being made that I enjoy, so no..capitalism does not seem to be destroying music.

Fuck off newfag

because only a minority of great music is right wing and we hate minorities here

what?
every board is filled with lefties besides Sup Forums
which is filled with lefties doing their best impression of an extremist rightie

Because other boards are infested with retarded rightys. The balance is at stake.

Which is exactly what this fraud was doing his whole life - bad art. Quite ironic.

>Marxism and lennism is a set of ideaologies that communism is based on
Holy shit all opinions in this thread can now be discarded.