I don’t know the exact circumstances of Sonic Youth’s decision, so I’m not comfortable saying they did it wrong...

>I don’t know the exact circumstances of Sonic Youth’s decision, so I’m not comfortable saying they did it wrong. But a lot of the things they were involved with as part of the mainstream were distasteful to me. And a lot of the things that happened as a direct result of their association with the mainstream music industry gave credibility to some of the nonsense notions that hover around the star-making machinery. A lot of that stuff was offensive to me and I saw it as a sellout and a corruption of a perfectly valid, well-oiled music scene. Sonic Youth chose to abandon it in order to become a modestly successful mainstream band—as opposed to being a quite successful independent band that could have used their resources and influence to extend that end of the culture. They chose to join the mainstream culture and become a foot soldier for that culture’s encroachment into my neck of the woods by acting as scouts. I thought it was crass and I thought it reflected poorly on them. I still consider them friends and their music has its own integrity, but that kind of behavior—I can’t say that I think it’s not embarrassing for them. I think they should be embarrassed about it.

Why do we pretend to hate him again?

People hate him because they think he diddles little children.

cucks hate him

>my biggest achievement was producing the three stooges: the man: the person

If he has such a problem with "the mainstream" then why the fuck did he produce albums for bands like Nirvana, Bush and Chevelle? Fucking hypocrite.

Nirvana are not mainstream. Nirvana are grunge which is not mainstream.

he didn't like nirvana when they first met, also Nirvana, bush or chevelle never claimed to be an underground band like Sonic youth. They all had reached mainstream success right when they met steve

My point what he accuses Sonic youth of being guilty of as a band he is guilty of as a music producer. By his own logic he should be embarrassed for producing mainstream bands.

Here's your (you) faggot. Now use some real bait next time.

What's Albini's best recording/production job and why is it American Don?

please don't meme like this, it sickens me.
>Nirvana never claimed to be an underground
Kurt was constantly labeling every other band "sell outs"

>not spiderland

Pleb

Albini didn't produce Spiderland

more like if you're going to say you're underground, stay underground. Dont turn around and try to achieve mainstream success and just sell out like that. I think its an integrity issue rather than a mainstream or not issue

I'm not pretending, fuck Steve

uhh

which bands were these, thats ironic considering he sold out his entire music scene for 1 album

>I'm not pretending, fuck Steve
why tho

Sonic Youth never "sell out", they just signed with a major labor

I can't stand Albini, but he has been proven right about this.

Sonic Youth literally released two buttcrack albums in the early 90s. Thankfully with Jet Set Trash they got back on track.

One and the same

le my band was purest meme

Albini is not a producer. He's an engineer.

He's a dick! He's an utter shithead with such a massive superiority complex putting down every fucking band in existence whining about "authenticity" and shit. Fuck him
Songs About Fucking is a bad album too, and his vocals ruin Shellac

So why is it an integrity issue for Sonic Youth but not Albini? Did Sonic Youth ever claim they were underground and always would be? And don't say some bullshit like "Well they started off as an underground band so they should have stayed that way"

Yep. Albini is/was a reactionary power hungry nerd, but he was right about this.

For all intents and purposes, he's a producer. Makes conversation easier.

Goo and dirty are great wtf? i mean except for my friend goo

Because he's a fucking hypocrite who criticizes others for leaving the underground scene while he does the exact same thing. The guy was in the fucking Foo Fighters documentary TV show for fucks sake. That's way more embarrassing than aything Sonic Youth did in the 90s.

Maximumrocknroll was right in exposing what utter shit Sonic Youth was.

what?

Not an Albini fan, but he never took Geffen money as an artist.

He did as a producer though.

Just one more reason why he's a fucking arrogant and pretentious cunt.

Guns N Roses (fellow Labelmates)
Pearl Jam (pretty much the same career trajectory as them)
Alice in Chains
I'm sure there were more, he was always going on about "le corporations" then turn up to play for MTV

>Last April, when Rolling Stone put the band on its cover, Cobain showed up for the photo session in a T-shirt that read CORPORATE MAGAZINES STILL SUCK.
>hate big magazines
>still show up
He was such a poseur.

No he's not.

He sets up mics and hits record.

He's not responsible for the artistic/conceptual direction of a project.

He's an engineer.

>He did as a producer though.
Bingo. I wasn't referring to any of his musical projects.

You listen to a website/magazine to decide what to think about music? Neat

You're not wrong. Just imagine having conversations with people about him and having to explain the difference between engineer and producer every time.

True.

Albini likes to have his cake and eat it too.

He can be VERY phoney.

Anyone can hire Albini. And for pretty cheap too.

He's simply not a producer.

This is only mostly true. He hates to admit it, but he obviously has a sound that bands seek out. He's not just an engineer. Only mostly.

>Anyone can hire Albini
Can you fork over $900 a day for several days to a few weeks? And that's not even considering other fees like the studio fee.

He'll literally record a Jamaican polka band if they pay his day rate.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Cheap as fuck.

Most big names would charge $900 an hour.

I know a big time mainstream producer. His day rate is 50k.

Yeah, I know, the point is you can immediately tell it was him who recorded it regardless of what it is, he has his sound and bands seek it out. He likes to think of himself as just an engineer and he basically is but it's still a little deeper than that. David Yow even talked about having to reel him in so it didn't sound too much like one of his records, because his records clearly have a sound.

This has always been bullshit. He can call it whatever he wants but the Albini 'sound' is one of the most recognizable of the 80s and 90s. That's producing.

>a few weeks

Is it 1973? What kind of scrub ass band spends a few weeks in the studio in 2017? Grizzly Bear? Grimes?

...

I mean, I'm not a fan of his 'sound'.

But he's recorded all kinds of shit.

No it's literally engineering.

If you hire say Neil Hagerty as a producer He'll literally write and play the guitar parts.

Not the same thing at all.

I know, but there are very prominent and consistent elements across his recordings that have nothing to do with the genre of whatever it is. We all know the Albini sound. Especially the drums. Doesn't matter who is playing what, you can tell he recorded it, especially with drums. It's more than just being a lowly engineer like he presents himself.

He isn't wrong

I'm surprised how much time Albini spent talking shit about Sonic Youth.

What was Thurston's response again? Something about Steve having to doublecheck who makes his jeans before pointing fingers?

Melvins said they have never been treated as decently as when they were in a major label cause of Nirvana so

plus SY or no SY, REM had already beens signed and San Francisco scene was about to get picked too

Exactly.

Albini sets up mics and hits record.

And apparently spends the rest of the time playing scrabble online.

Producers pick and choose who they'll work with and take a certain responsibility for the artistic/conceptual (and monetary) success of the project.

That's notwhat SA does.

You're literally describing the job of a recording engineer.

>reads Cloud Nothings AMA once

He'll record anything, regardless of his opinions. But he sticks it to big label bands financially.

Albini is actually right here.

Thurston's response has always been 'if you're living off the grid, I'll listen'.

No he doesn't. He probably records 95% bands paying out of their own pocket.

If he was exactly how he describes himself, then each of his records would sound different depending on the band. In reality, his recordings are instantly recognizable regardless of the band. This is NOT just engineering. That doesn't mean he's Phil Spector, it just means his touch is present and obvious. He may act like a ghost, but when you record with him, you're getting more than just yourself.

you do realise your on a music board right

Kek. And that's how he wound up releasing an collabo with a 'trans' poet

Albini was right. You can't allow corporate money into a cultural movement or art scene.

Yes, and he is known to provide reasonable rates to those bands. There's a band, I think it was TEN but I forget, who came and recorded a single when they were independent. They came back after they signed with a major and he charged like five times as much.

Yeah. He's has a style as a recording engineer. You're overcomplicatung this.

Goddammit Swype, that should say REM.

Imagine being a band like Silkworm recording all of your albums with Steve. You're good friends with him, so you get a nice discount and can fuck around in his studio practically whenever you want. And you'll get unconditional praise from Stevie.

I think, at this point, its $900 for whoever.

I don't think he's doing well financially.

Exactly. His non-producing is producing no matter what he says. It's like the people that said grunge didn't have an image. Its anti image *was* its image.

I guess I forgot. Here it's acceptable but if you argued about things like that in real life you'd drive people away.

Yeah, so right there, he's already more than JUST an engineer by his OWN reckoning by having a style at all.

Yep. Corporate cash comes with strings attached. As Thurston et al. are finding out the hard way.

What do you expect? If he sets up his shit the same way every time, there are going to be similarities. If I transcribe your words, are you going to claim my handwriting is forcing my style onto it?

Your blowing a lot of hot air.

He recorded my retarded trust fund friend's band.

Albini hits record if the check clears.

This guy knows what's up. And I should be clear, I'm not criticizing his work, it sounds amazing and he really does let bands do their thing, I just find it amusing when he makes a big deal about how hands off he is, as if you shouldn't be able to tell it was him recording it, when he actually has one of the most distinctive sounds of all time across all genres he records.

All engineers have a style.

Ah, bummer. I'm not keeping up with Steve so much these days, but I am trying to get across that I don't think he's being disingenuous by recording major label bands.

He was never a good producer in the first place and only wrote one good song

He sets up mics and hits record in a way that he thinks sounds 'good'.

THAT'S WHAT ENGINEERS DO, NOT WHAT PRODUCERS DO.

Albini himself agrees with this.

Jesus fucking Christ.

baka

To the extent of being instantly recognizable when your schtick is supposedly being a ghost?

Steve is a producer and a recording engineer

That's what engineers do.

Producers produce. They analyze lyrics, discuss tempo, collaborate on conceptual direction etc etc etc.

Albini himself makes this distinction.

Are you retards with $900 a day buyer remorse?

Everything you are saying is wrong

No. I just don't buy the way he presents himself.

Well you're wrong. I know several people who have recorded with him at EA.

If you transcribed my words into some weird font like comic sands, it would most def change the impact of the words. It would make you like the Mutt Lang of producing and I would be disappointed because I thought I hired Steve Albini and you would be like "what dude? I'm just the transcriber!"

*Mutt Lang of transcribing

Not that user, but you're wrong. Accept it.

And SA is right about SY. They could have held the line and instead took dirty money.

my exact opinion
what were they thinking on that song?

I've read about his process, I know he really does just push the button and doesn't fuck with the bands, but his fingers are all over it regardless just through the sheer force of his unique recording style. His non production is his production.

You really like hearing yourself talk huh?

Seems like just some disagreements over semantics, really. My main point is that he very clearly gives bands a sound beyond what they do themselves, he is not "pure" in his work, even if he's hands off in achieving it.

He sets up mics and hits record

Please join the rest of us in reality

Yes, because they are using his studio. That is the extent. What do you think he can do to have literally zero effect? What less is it physically possible to do than letting people use his shit to record?

Jazz serves a cultural function in the music scene. It is a signifier for musical "adulthood." To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside "mere" rock music. This ostentatious display of "sophistication" is an insult, and I find the graduation cappers transparent and tedious. Certainly there must be interesting music one could call "jazz." There must be. I've never heard it, but I grant that it is out there somewhere.

Jazz has a non-musical parallel: Christiania, the "free" zone in Copenhagen. In Christiania, like in jazz, there is no law. People are left to their own inventions to create and act as they see fit. In Jazz, the musicians are allowed to improvise over and beside structural elements that may themselves be extemporaneous. Sounds good, doesn't it? Freedom -- sounds good.

The reality is much bleaker. Christiania is a squalid, trashy string of alleys with rag-and-bone men selling drugs, tie-dye and wretched food. Granted Total Freedom, and this is what they've chosen to do with it, sell hash and lentil soup? Jazz is similar. The results are so far beneath the conception that there is no English word for the dissappointment one feels when forced to confront it. Granted Total Freedom, you've chosen to play II V I and blow a goddamn trill on the saxophone? Only by willfully ignoring its failings can one pretend to appreciate it as an idiom and don the cap.

>post yfw you realize he's right

You guys aren't considering his mixing. That's where he REALLY puts his stamp on.

The more you listen to Albini speak, you wonder whether Sup Forums dislikes him because he actually backs up his arguments and has some knowledge about that which he speaks.

Again, that's what an engineer does

What is free jazz

It is, but I think his mixing goes above and beyond merely representing the bands sound as accurately as possible like he says. He's giving them the Albini sound, not the best possible representation of their own sound. This is his "production". Again, David Yow has talked about needing to reel him in order to get his own sound.

Christiania.

To add, this is actually an ideal approach for bands that don't know shit about production themselves, they get a nice good package. But a band that wants to record with him but not sound like STEVE ALBINI RECORDING™ and have their own unique sound might be better served elsewhere.

How was sonic youth mainstream? They never had a top 40 hit and none of their albums ever hit platinum. Are they pretentious? absolutely!
Are the douche bags? Fuck yes! Do they make decent noise rock? Yuh