insurance is a scam. there are 2.4 million employed in the insurance industry. that means on top of the actual cost of services we're paying 700 million extra a week (at minimum wage, which is really low for them) ON TOP OF whatever we actually pay for services.
we need to all of us at once -
STOP PAYING FOR INSURANCE
wake up, spread the word.
It's always funny to see murricans beeing against insurance and so on while it is a really good system.
I think the problem that you have is that your doctors precribe shit for everything, while here in yurop getting precription meds is a rare case.
Sure one way or another you pay for it, and many don't need it, but i like the idea of the safety that IF i ever get a serious disease i won't have to consider accepting my own death for economic reasons.
how can it be good? they provide zero services and we pay for their 2.4 million employees. how can it possibly be better than paying directly for the services? please explain.
to be clear, already the costs of the (sometimes bloated) medical costs we also pay for. We pay both the costs and the payroll of the insurance industry as well as gross profit of the industry as well, while getting nothing more than the services.
well? i'm genuinely interested in hearing how it's a good system.
You act like they don't work at all. Yes, it is a service, services are not free - end of the story.
If you don't like the idea of people moving money from one way or another that's an opinion, but it really doesn't change the positive effect of insurance.
>Breaking Bad canada: "
Disclaimer: HEALTH insurance, you're still gonna want at least catastrophe or fire on your house in case it burns to the ground
they do work to get their profit not to heal you or fix your car. why is paying for 2.4 million employees + profit + the service you're insuring for better than just paying for the service when you need it?
that's what i'm waiting to have explained.
if there is insurance, then rest assured we are already paying for whatever houses need to be replaced. the insurance companies see to that. then they also tack on all their employees and extra profits as well as growth.
A friend of mine met an australian who got bitten by something, his thumb got black and parts of his hand got black aswell.
He insisted that it wasn't poisonous though, because that would mean he'd have to go to a doctor. (But he was wondering if that was the wrong call at this point.)
My friends of course were terrified, because shit like that would go to a hospital the same day it had started, he waited TWO WEEKS.
So i'll make the assumption that he lost his thumb and maybe parts of his hand to this day, because he wasn't insured and/or afraid to see the medical bill he'd face.
Now if he and everyone else would pour into an insurance that wouldn't have happened.
let's say 2 houses a year need to be replaced in an area. and let's say they further that a house costs 50k , meaning the insurance company will need to pay out 100k a year.
if there are 100 people paying for insurance they will most certainly charge 1k each. now that's the very base. next they tack on money for their employees and profits so it's more like 2k a person.
yeah not having insurance only works when NO ONE has it. that's the point. we all need to stop and we need all stop NOW
That's not true, it's very easy to profit off of insurance companies for fire insurance/catastrophe as long as it's a total loss. Not all insurance policies are created equally, and the reason you get total loss insurance is because it's low cost and low deductible because it normally never happens, but if it does you're going to be WAY better off with total loss insurance than no insurance at all, I promise you.
It'll never happen people like security. Do you lock your doors when you leave the house? Same thing.
Because of the probablility of unforseeable exploding costs.
Most people won't need it, but there's this 1/100 chance that your medical bill will ruin you. Except of course you're super rich and got millions in the bank.
Also you keep mentioning those "2.4 million employees + profit", well as a company they need to have employees to do their business, now i'll assume this number is referenced to all of usa? That means roughly 100 customers per employee - i think that's an ok quote for light work.
How would noone having an insurance have helped the australian?
individually yes for one incident but as a group we pay way more for the services our community gets in return. the cost is just spread out more so we don't notice.
Scam is misleading. They provide an artificial service.
Insurance is of no economic value, however. They don't create anything or provide a service which can't already be provided elsewhere. Pooling your money into a "risk pool" is no different than your neighborhood pitching in to make a community-wide rainy day fund.
However the issue is not the insurance companies, directly. Not anymore, at least. It's the government. Monopolies cannot exist without government intervention, and they've created an ecosystem to perpetuate this shit.
So you wanna make a company stop having profits?
And the employees to stop earning money?
Because sick people are not consumers and doctors are not merchants. It is fucked up that we, as a society force them to be.
doctors would be paid directly for their services at a lower rate. it's true that if you don't have any money you might get less treatment but that's still true now in the US. if you have little money you probably don't have insurance either.
i want to drive insurance companies out of business by having everyone suddenly stop paying for it.
Every business has overhead. Your argument is shit
Well sure I'm not arguing against that, I'm just saying that if you're on a budget and you're not going to have enough money to buy your entire house outright if it burns to the ground it'd be worth spending a little money and be covered in the case of a total loss.
i think we're in a position now where when something happens, just like insurance costs, everyone who owns a house pays to have the one that was lost replaced. with the expectation that in return theirs will get replaced if necessary.
>doctors would be paid directly for their services at a lower rate.
Yes, it would be lower, but again you keep missing the point of exploding costs. What do you think costs living a night in a hospital? What do you think how many nights you spend there because of a broken leg? How many days of rehab would you have to go through?
A friend of mine had a problem with his knee, if he was us american he would be in a wheelchair right now.
>if you have little money you probably don't have insurance either.
Not where i live...
Also again:
How would noone having an insurance have helped the australian?
whatever it costs, we're all already paying for that as needed PLUS the salaries of 2.4 million insurance industry employees and profits of insurance companies.
australians have universal health care. nothing would have changed.
Trump says Australia's single payer system is better than ours.
ITT: fatties don't understand the entire point of insurance companies
And my friend would be in a wheel chair.
Well aperrently this guy didn't have or didn't know about it? Why else would he stay away from a doctor with a dying thumb? (It was two years ago, in case there were major changes.)
then tell us what the point is?
of course i do know, it's to make money. and keep their 2.4 million employees salary paid.
Terry Pratchett put it best in The Colour Of Magic when he basically suggested that insurance is really just a bet that you get fucked up at some point
DANGER REDUCTION.
Fuck, i keep saying it over and over again and you keep on ignoring it.
DANGER REDUCUION.
and that would be fine if it was reined in. but with the massive insurance industry overhead, their actuaries working tirelessly and the growth driven model of the US corporate system, it's now getting to the point where it's a drain on us directly, feeding off us.
what danger? we're already paying for all the services directly plus massive overhead. how can a system without insurers, where we still get charged when necessary and paid when necessary, be worse?
the doctor's actual salary might go up without insurance. who knows. the actual costs will definitely go down, because they're inflated through insurance now, causing us to have to pay even more collectively.
For fucks sake, you can't be THAT dense, can you?
If you have a serious health problem you will have to pay a lot of money, even if you skip the "horrendous insurance" costs.
Now a normal person doesn't have that kind of money because people don't feel like saving money, also because they can't predict when they'll get cancer from stupid posts on a chinese cartoon forum. Which lead us to two possible outcomes:
a) The person gets his shit fixed on the money others pay, improving his and the lives of the people arround him massively.
b) The person gets financially ruined / no treatment destroying his and the lives of the people arround him. Also everyone else can buy more greasy food from wallmart.
Empathy is a good thing, if you don't agree you're a piece of shit with a shitty opinion.
collectively we're already all of us paying for any of the services that any of our people need. the actuaries see to that.
Yes, they taker serious consideration into risk calculation and average sickness rates etc, they do this for you.
>it really doesn't change the positive effect of insurance.
nope you just are not getting it. In other countries where health care is paid for through taxation, we do not have to pay for the insurance companies unnecessary services, or the profits of the unnecessary private shareholders in health care provision. which is why our health care costs half the amount that America does per head, and actually covers everyone for all diseases and conditions - unlike America which has millions (soon to be tens of millions more) uncovered or only covered partially.
the whole american insurance and private medicine program is a very costly drag on the economy, and should be reformed as a matter of urgency. for the majority of people it just does not work, and is not a good service.
>they can't predict when they'll get cancer from stupid posts on a chinese cartoon forum
Fucking lost
nope, the insurance industry is the drag, not private medicine.
>It's the government. Monopolies cannot exist without government intervention, and they've created an ecosystem to perpetuate this shit.
because they are being bribed (sorry lobbied) byt he insurance companies and private health care providers.
Nixon was told it would be best to go for a UK style NHS with universal coverage and paid through taxation (or call it national insurance - same thing) he being a republican, didn't see how money could be made for private investors, so came up with the shitty system that is failing now. thanks Nixon, you typical republican crook.
yes because they are not doing anything productive to the economy, and are a drag ont he economy. they are paid to shuffle paper and prevent people from getting health care they need, so losing out on productive working days. it is a terrible drag on the whole country.
which is why you should have a non profit insurance system - like a single payer, centrally funded through taxation universal health care system - like the rest of the civilized world has...
With that argument you can dismiss all services, because well - everyone could do that - right?
>Monopolies cannot exist without government intervention
What a load of bollocks lol
sorry, both are. You are paying not only the fat slaries of the insurance execs, but also the fat salaries of the private companies - ans their shareholders. this is not productive - nor necessary. it is a huge drag on the economy. USA pays double what the rest of the world pays, for a far worse service.
no. just horribly inefficient ones that syphon money out of necessary services (health care)
or am I misunderstanding you? give an example of another service that that "everyone could do"?
we're not paying for paper shuffling. we're paying for medical help.
ok, you're probably also not paying for food preparation - only for eating, you're also not paying for hair cutting - only for having a good haircut,
no idiot. insurance companies don't get involved with medical services.
it's like saying hey pay me extra money, probably like double by this point, and i'll walk you to the restaurant.
Banking for instance, or building a house, or fucking... ok that doesn't work, but ALMOST all services get provided to make your life easier.
You could create group of hundrets of people who would pool money together in order to insure each other without profit, but you fail to understand that ridiculous amount of work you'd have to put into such a system. If you find enought people for such a system - go ahead, i'll just predict that people don't want to spend an hour each day to ponder over risk calculation and medical records.
Peoples thoughts end as soon as the payment is out and they want the service afterwards without beeing bugged with too many details.
Yeah that's all very smart until you are the one who needs a heart transplant that costs a million dollar.
The service you are paying for is the protection. You are protected against having to pay a lot at once.
the actuaries can tell us exactly how much money we'll need for service costs we can expect to incur. they do this already for the insurance industry.
let's say we know 4 people will get in your little town a month, costing 2k in medical bills. now this can end up being you, who knows.
take that 2k and if there are 2000 employed people in that town, everyone pays $1.
simplified obviously, but you get the idea.
this will end up being a lot less than what we now pay for insurance.
i'm not suggesting people don't still get the medical help they need. i'm not even suggesting that doctors don't get paid a fair or even a high wage for their services.
i'm just suggesting that we cut out the entire 2.4 million person strong middleman industry that's sapping away at our resources.
you are missing the point - a single national call it insurance scheme if you like would cut out the middle men currently making huge profits for doing nothing more than shuffling paper. Call it a larger version of a community pooling money - and since we don't want freeloaders, make it compulsory through taxation.
everyone pays in, everyone is covered for everything. we don't need huge risk analysis or actuarial tables, because we share it out fairly equally - hey, we can call it taxation!
easy. cheaper than current system, more healthy workers producing for more hours, fewer unproductive but lucrative insurance jobs that do nothing for the economy.
win win.
not at all. actuaries already know how much the services will cost for areas of the entire country. they do it for insurance companies.
we can take that cost, divide it up between employed people instead of insurance payments.
no matter what it will be much less than we're paying now.
localized it becomes even more meaningful. in small towns you can actually see where your money goes. and who knows, you might be next so you are more than willing to pay.
eh i've got other shit to do, and i don't think we're getting here anywhere
Go ahead, quit your insurance and be happy when you need it.
nope, everyone needs to stop at once or it doesn't work. you're too dumb to understand that
And you're too dumb to understand that insurance is a blessing.
ha ha an entire industry of middlemen that do nothing but steal money a blessing? bah ha ha you're a fool
Are you fucking retarded? U should be in fear over finance you should be able to go to a doctor with no fear ither than your stupid actions that are taking u there.
well maybe, but at least doctors are providing services.
The issue is that most people have such awful money-management skills that they would spend that money instead of saving it for an emergency like a bad accident. Yet another issue of the nanny state stepping in and thereby preventing people from learning from their mistakes and growing as a society, but I digress..
we alresdy pay all of our population's medical needs. the insurance industry demands it. all i'm suggesting is not paying for the middlemen
So the money is just going to float to the doctors. Also the portions will weight themselves over your average risk and behaviour - by themselves, or maybe magic.
actuaries, same as it's done now. neural networks working off data eventually.
i don't see why we can't do it on a local level instead of an industry of 2.4 million.