/jazz/ general

Sunday Night jazz thread

What have you been listening to and what do you think of it?

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>Scott LaFaro started practicing bass at 18
What.

But he had a very musical background before that. Once you understand the theory it's really just about developing technique on the instrument.

Anyway, it's all about the hours you put in. If you can get 6 hours of practice a day, you can get good pretty quickly.

Jazz pleb here. Been listening to a lot of Cecil Taylor and some essentials like Blue Train and Black Saint and the Sinner Lady. I feel like it's starting to click. Well, as much as it can without learning the theory behind it. It's been a couple of years of dipping my toes into jazz (as well as classical), and I think it's starting to pay off.

How would you guys recommend learning theory?

Get a keyboard if you don't have one. A cheap midi keyboard will work if you're just using it for theory.

First make sure you understand how music is notated, then start with intervals, then Major/Minor scales, then major/minor triads, then other triads and 7th chords.

Once you feel good about those you can start looking at key signatures, circle of 4ths and Roman numeral analysis, then practice a lot of Roman numeral analysis until it becomes second nature.

There are a lot of free online resources covering all of those things.

I'm into putting in the hours but how long do you think it will take?

I'd say maybe 100 hours, if you use your time efficiently. You can divide that up however you want.

But bear in mind that that doesn't include time actually developing technique on an instrument, which is the most time consuming thing. That's just the pure theory, and a bit of ear training, assuming you play the examples on the keyboard as well as writing them out.

And all the stuff I mentioned above is really just the fundamentals of theory. You can go quite a bit deeper than that into theory, and that stuff is basically just the prerequisites for something like jazz theory.

Any "cheap midi keyboard" you would recommend to learn this stuff in?

Doesn't really matter, you're just using it to be able to hear and see the basic scales and chords. Alternatively you can just get one of those cheap plastic keyboards.

Unless you want to actually play piano, then definitely don't get a midi keyboard. Get a real keyboard with weighted keys.

does learning theory actually even change how you listen o jazz? i thought that was a meme

bump

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Any good solo albums that are not piano?

Joe Pass - Virtuoso

Yes and no. Mostly no I guess. Just studying pure theory won't really change much about how you listen to jazz. Theory plus some intensive ear training might change it a little bit, but the things that will actually change how you listen to jazz are actually playing jazz yourself, and actively listening to a LOT of jazz. Not even necessarily a lot of different jazz, because relistening is important in being able to pick up on everything that's going on in jazz.

Was just about to rec this

bought a new henry threadgill sextet record at the jazz record center in NY. going to have a first listen tonight. im pretty excited.
get a teacher if you can afford it.
Reggie workman- the works or workman
theres a difference between theory and ear training.

also barre phillips- journal violone

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rolled this album in a thread from yesterday and it was fantastic, totally rec it

Any jazz with a lot of electric guitar in it?

Paul Motian Trio- One Time Out

Why are these albums with terrible cover art so popular in /jazz/?

cause its a label that releases a lot of pretty good modern jazz. the label definitely has a sound so if you dont like some of it then it might not be for you but theres definitely some stuff. plus jazz has bad covers cause they know the nerds that buy it dont care. look at some steeplechase covers.

They're all on the same record label criss cross. Jazzthreadguy is always reccing their stuff so I guess it's caught on.

you guys wanna hear 4 bassists and a percussionist in 1971, and it really doesnt suck.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnzH5yGbws

What happened to that guy who was posting in every jazz thread that used to play with William Parker ?

thats me, been posting anonymously. i didnt used to play with him. i hopefully will be in the fall. why? i wasnt posting for awhile cause life got very busy. should be dying down now. saw william player in ny on thursday with taborn, cleaver, and darius jones.

I was just wondering. It seems like all the threads have been dead recently.

yeah im really sorry about that. i was posting again for awhile and then went on tour without my computer. i went to jazz record center of ny and got an ECM album with Andrew Cyrille, Bill Frisell, Ben Street, and someone of synths. its great, came out last year.

kinda normie-tier but good nonetheless

Hey since you're a bassist what are some of your favorite bass-heavy albums?

sorry to ask, but define bass heavy...

just any album where the bass playing is a major highlight

Matana Roberts - COIN COIN Chapter One: Gens de couleur libres

Most bluesy jazz i've heard in a while, it's also pretty fucking good.

WHY IS MONK SO GOOD FFFAAAAA

KoB is a great album and I'd really wonder about any so called "jazz fan" who doesn't think so

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The only good Miles Davis album. And that's because half of it was written by other people.

you've never heard any of his "second quintet" albums have you?

Stop it. I've heard Birth Of The Cool, Bitches Brew, Bitches Brew Live, In A Silent Way, Kind Of Blue, Live-Evil and Miles Smiles, enough to form a fucking opinion on the piece of shit. The only thing i've heard that interested me was Kind Of Blue.

Everything else he's done to me just meanders on and on without ever coming to a meaningful conclusion. It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.

oh geez...thats still a pretty tough question. right off the top of my head i would reccomend the free jazz trio AIR, i think the playing is pretty evenly split between the three members and Fred Hopkins is fantastic. Also steve lacy trio- the Window. Jean Jacques Avenel's solos are beautiful. Thats just what ive been listening to as bass studies recently.

>It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.
oh so you just don't get jazz? anyway listen to sketches of spain.

not him but: Ray Brown Trio- Soular Energy

want to get into jazz
do any of you have a flowchart for absolute beginners or something like that

also these and the workman album here

I forgot to list Sketches aswell, listened to it. It was just as bad as the rest.

And please get off your high horse. I've listened to literally hundreds of jazz albums and like a great majority of them, it's just Miles Davis i don't like. I just don't feel like there's any emotion in any of his music. It's all just bland as shit.

>I just don't feel like there's any emotion in any of his music. It's all just bland as shit.

Do you have any actual criticisms of his music or are you one of those people who just uses subjective buzzwords to try to justify their edgy contrarian opinions?

I just wrote

>Everything else he's done to me just meanders on and on without ever coming to a meaningful conclusion. It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.

in . You on the other hand have only been calling me names so far.

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>Sketches of Spain

>It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.
You're joking right?

Pro-tip: There is a difference between "hearing" and "listening".

>Everything else he's done to me just meanders on and on without ever coming to a meaningful conclusion. It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.
you don't think that's really any better do you?

thanks, dude

anyone know this one?

"Hip Hop set drumming back 200 years and Wayne Shorter couldnt walk bar"
-Joe Chambers 2016

>Wayne Shorter couldnt walk bar
What does this mean

What does /Jazz/ think of Benny Goodman? I don't listen to much Jazz but I have a bunch of random records and I like him

To do what? Understand basic stuff like intervals and chords and keys won't take long. It's really not that hard, most people who struggle with it aren't trying very hard.

No it won't. After a decent amount of ear training you'll start recognizing certain chord progressions in the music from time to time, like a ii V I. But beyond noticing stuff like that it doesn't change much. Understanding music form will affect how you listen. How and why certain thing happen will make a lot more sense. Playing jazz will change how you listen to it too.

I'm a jazz fan, but I really don't enjoy listening to that record. I wouldn't dispute it's greatness, but it's just long and kinda boring. Flamenco sketches is a shitty tune and All Blues can be so boring.

>It all feels like a jam-band with a bunch of amazing musicians that have literally zero chemistry together, they're just jerking off over eachothers playing.

You feel that way about the second quintet? They were one of the most cohesive bands ever.

idk if this is what he means, but back in the 50's (idk how long this lasted) sax players in R&B bands would sometimes getting up on top of the bar and "walk the bar" and play really frenzied and move around a bunch while soloing. It was considered kinda embaressing and a pop thing to do that a serious musician wouldn't do. Coltrane was doing it (because he had to) once and some jazz cat he looked up to came in and he immediately stopped and was very embarrassed.

Yes definitely, but other user was right that it comes primarily from playing jazz

He was wrong about a fundamental understanding of chords not affecting how you listen to jazz. That's ridiculous. Players lead your ear, and the more you understand the language of harmony the more you understand the jazz you listen to. All people can appreciate complex jazz, but the reason a lot of people say it sounds like noise is because they literally have no idea what's going on and why it sounds good.

youtu.be/KO4EEx8-SEU?list=PL5Lq8qzSE6N2JtfQm9c2VXCCxv4HmVRQ-
Fave miles album, one of my favorites jazz records

Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't make it any less valid. I perfectly explained why i don't like his music, but you got your head so far stuck up your ass that you don't want to hear any negative things about your fucking messiah.

Was listening to pic related last night. Solo Cecil can be so captivating. He's got a strong personality in his playing and brings the music to some powerful places given all that space to develop melodic ideas, pace and tone by himself. Love hearing free music by someone who knows what they're doing.

bump

Any other good recent releases?

rateyourmusic.com/collection/jazzthreadguy/strm_relyear,ss.rd/2017

I listened to it last night and its really really good.

That looks good, how is it? What were your thoughts?

bump

I've only given it one kinda inattentive listen but I liked it. Good chemistry between musicians and pleasantly less fusiony than other albums I've heard by Bill.

I liked this one - a bit of a return to form for Frisell IMHO

been listening to Verneri Pohjola's Pekka which is great, Peter Brötzmann/Heather Leigh - Sex Tape which is interesting because it's pretty subdued for Brötzmann which makes it more interesting than most of his stuff, Peter Evans/Mats Gustafsson/Agusti Fernandez - A Quietness of Water, nice free jazz from two blowers known for making unconventional noises and afro-beat legend drummer Tony Allen's tribute EP to Art Blakey which is a little hit and miss

all of those are on Spotify

eagerly awaiting the Ambrose Akinmusire album coming out on Friday

theres a new ambrose record coming out? also, how so is the ecm duo record with morgan a return to form? what form? haha

Ok, I'll bite. Could you give some examples of some of your favorite jazz records?

Was La la land right? Is Jazz dead?

This legendary album right here, is a gem

Improvisations - Ran Blake, Jaki Byard

/jazz/ is dead

I don't know how to make a constructive post concerning this music, but I want the general to survive.

Charles Mingus - The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady
Art Tatum - 20th Century Piano Genius
John Coltrane - The Olatunji Concert
Bobby Timmons - This Here Is Bobby Timmons
Satoko Fujii - Toward, "TO WEST"
Charles Lloyd - Forest Flower: Live in Monterey
Charles Mingus - The Clown
Chick Corea & Hiromi Uehara - Duet
Dollar Brand - African Space Program
The Don Ellis Orchestra - Electric Bath
The Human Arts Ensemble - Live Vol. I
John Coltrane - Afro Blue Impressions
Matana Roberts - Coin Coin Chapter One: Gens De Couleur Libres
Pharoah Sanders - Live At The East
Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Live In Paris, 1970 Vol. 2
Thelonious Monk - Monk In Tokyo

That about sums up the type of jazz i do like.

gerry mulligan's night lights is so fucking good

so ... this is the power ... of regular church attendance

you can never kill an idea

It's dead commercially and culturally, but as an art form it's just as healthy as it's ever been.

>The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.
Is it true?
Are Duke Ellington and Coltrane the best jazz artists?

you guys misunderstand me, lol
the thread /jazz/, the /jazz/ general, is dead.

The 'Big 5' are:

Louis Armstrong
Duke Ellington
Charlie Parker
Miles Davis
John Coltrane

Coltrane and Ellington aren't really any more or less important than the other three.

What's fun is to argue about who numbers 6-10 are.

Artists like Kamasi Washington are making it relevant again by asociating themselves with the "relevant" artists of today, rappers and hip hop people.

Dave Brubeck and Keith Jarrett

It's a shame they can't seem to do it without sacrificing artistry.

which one of you faggots is this

I would disagree with Jarrett, Brubeck is a maybe...

I think Monk, Mingus, and Ornette Coleman are definitely in the 6-10 spots. And then I think you could make a decent argument for Dizzy Gillespie, Clifford Brown, Sonny Rollins, Elvin Jones, Herbie Hancock, or Wayne Shorter to be in the other two slots. You could maybe argue Brubeck.

Charlie Parker washed dishes for a year in a restaurant because Art Tatum had a residence there. The day Art Tatum quit, Charlie Parker quit too. I really believe people underestimate the influence Art Tatum has had on jazz.

Considering Washington made a three hour long album i don't think he compromised on anything.

Quantity and quality are not the same thing.

>What's fun is to argue about who numbers 6-10 are.
Off top my head,
Bix Beiderbecke
Jelly Roll Morton
Bill Evans
Thelonious Monk
Charles Mingus

Maybe you could switch out Evans and Morton with someone else.

I like a lot of these albums as well. What would you say it is that you like about these albums, if you had to choose some qualities (they don't have to be necessarily present in all of them, just things you like about them)?

Pharoah Sanders, John Coltrane, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Matana Roberts and Charles Lloyd all have this way of saxophone playing that's balls out, no compromises. Just after listening to the intro on example You've Got To Have Freedom by Pharoah Sanders you know it's gonna be a wild ride. They're playing more the notes they feel like playing and less the notes they should be playing.