Would you guys be advocates of a smaller EU, without all the Eastern European countries, with stronger external borders, and a very strong anti immigration plan, which would help secure every country's culture?
I'm probably asking for a lot, but some proper discussion would be nice.
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The European Union Ltd. is a mafia corporation. You can not reform it. Only a total reboot can clean up the massive corruption.
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I'd love a Union that enables post-colonial Europe to assume a relevant role on the world Stage
Alas, we got this fucking commieshit
We need the United States of Europe if we don't want to be raped by large nations which can spend way more for secret services/cybersecurity than the average European nation.
That is true. The EU is basically a tool for big corporations.
Do you think a federal Europe would change that?
Problem is, the starting point of the EU, with the Steel and Coal Community, was already economic. Most countries that joined afterwards were appealed by the Single Market that went with the membership. Now look at us, there's litteraly dozen of thousands of registered lobbyists in brussels. How do you even want to work in the interest of the people like that? I don't even get why lobbying is accepted. It's one of the biggest reason the US political system is a mess.
I'm still mad about the failure of the EU constitution in 2005, even though we have most elements integrated now.
We could have a proper entity, instead of several qtates never agreeing with each other. Hell last time they had a decisive action on the international scene was Russia's sanctions and suddenly every newspaper realised that, yeah, the EU can do some proper shit when it gets its own together.
Instead we end up divided on migrants that will destroy us from within and the TTIP that will kill us from outside.
It took a political nanosecond for EU ver. 1 to turn into a complete FIFA-style cesspool of corrupt, commie horseshit.
It would happen again in half the time - as they are now very good at it.
Europe is fucked.
> Do you think a federal Europe would change that?
God forbid!
The EU should be transformed into an economy association, nothing more. To hell with the court of human rights!
> I'm still mad about the failure of the EU constitution in 2005
Fuck that "constitution". Written by who? For what purpose? Was there a vote for that constitution here or in your country? No! Totally undemocratic. A lousy piece of paper it was, mainly to move more privileges to Brussels, away from the sovereign nations, straight into the hands of the mafia.
Well yes there was a vote you silly.
It failed in France and the Netherlands, even though every other country said yes.
And it was written by people democratically elected:
>The drafting for European Constitution began in a call for a new debate on the future of Europe at the Laeken European Council in December 2001. A European Convention was founded shortly afterward which was chaired by former French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing and composed of two Members of Parliament (generally one from the governing majority and one from the opposition) of each Member State and applicant state, 16 MEPs, 2 members of the European Commission [1] and a representative from each government. It met in public. Giscard d'Estaing proposed to draft a Constitution. Romano Prodi, the President of the European Commission backed a draft text, called Penelope Project, which contained a deeper integration of the countries and a more clear institutional model.[2]
Thing is, would this economic union be do beneficial if there was no political actions behind it?
I agree that, unfortunately, the EU is now corrupted to hell and back, but it's undeniable that some political actions of the EU helped greatly, notably on human rights.
Hell, the HRA in the UK has done a lot, and it's one of many, even if it's probably the niggest change on the UK/EU history.
You cannot seperate economy and politics.
After all they didn't choose steel and coal randomly.
They knew that a war in Europe would be way harder if not impossible once the needed ressources aren't in the hands of single nations
Hence, my argument on having an only economic union. It would quickly devolve into a closer union that would end up in a political one, which is what happened here.
Stricter control on corruption is crucial for that go welm though, otherwise the economic goals are the ones leading the march, using the political ideas to achieve their own.
Nope.
No, at least I wouldn't want my country in. Its only purpose would be to serve northerners and globalists, taking the power, leadership and advantage of south economical weakness. Like with the E.U. It would detstroy our already weak industry and use that as a coactive instrument to do whatever they want with us. I only support military alliance and some interesting economic agreements.
Why so ameribro?
Understandable, and quite right. Shame we can't have a smaller union that could help countries that have slight problems so that everyone benefits, and not having to handme utter trainwrecks like it does with the Estern countries.
stop ahmed and wash my toilet
you cant do anything
> The drafting for European Constitution began i
It still remains a lousy paper since 60+ MIO people could not vote for this so called "constitution" here. The a decision was made by Angela Merkel and she voted yes.
> Thing is, would this economic union be do beneficial if there was no political actions behind it?
Yes, imagine the EU without the big government surrounding it and the human rights nonsense.
> EU is now corrupted to hell
It was always corrupt, birth defect
Do you remember the vote between Junker and Schulz? How was this democratic? It wasn't at all, since there was no primary vote for a candidate!
No, we all have to stand united but not under some overarching gouverment
>without all the Eastern European countries
>very strong anti immigration plan
Without the resistance of Easter European countries there would be already millions of migrants distributed all over the EU whit no end in sight.
Yes, please kick us. Subhumans are not worthy. Stay in your inbred fuckin elitist group.
It's not against you slavbro, but you lust admit that your countries economic and corruption situation is a fucking shithole. The EU send billions (so our money) into your countries when everyone knows half of it disapears in the pockets of corrupt governments before anythibg is even envisionned.
I do appreciate the fact that slavs grab their balls and tell the migrants to stay the fuck out. Whish other countries could do that
> You cannot seperate economy and politics.
Du hast keine Ahnung, was die EU alles macht und für was diese Gangster alles an kuriosen Gesetzen verabschieden. Staubsaugerverordnung, Gurkenverordnung, Babyschnullerverordnung, Glühbirnengesetz sind nur einige Beispiele
Just get rid of the jews in the goverment in US and EU and put white leaders who care about their people and not about turning everyone into cattle.
What's so special about these Regulations?
I guess colonizing, ransacking and raping half of the world for centuries makes you brits to be on the higher moral ground...
EU IS A FUCKING CIA MEME!
HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME KEK.
telegraph.co.uk
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Google the regulation numbers
666/2013
1677/88
DIN EN 12586
244/2009
I don't know your flag, were you one of the countries we owned?
Jokes on you, I'm from France.
It's not about the past though. It"s about being practical. The EU got too big too fast. We pour billions into countries that end up not benefiting 100% from this money because of their political situation. It's money wasted, pure and simple, and a metric fuckton at that.
no. one of the european countries needs to annex the others
Thanks god no.
and by one of i do not mean britian.
beady eyed anglo shit brains should be cooked on their island with nuclear weapons
The Problem, as always with Europe, is that everyone has claims on this, historical rights to that. There is no European Identity because we've all spent the lass few thousand years hating, killing and conquering each other.
Without a European Identity, the European Union can never have a unified, centralised plan for anything. Getting rid of the Eastern Block won't fix the system's problems. The System simply doesn't work in it's current set up. We can't be another USA because there's too much history in the way.
That's not to say we couldn't make something work. I'm all for stronger Economic ties and not going to war with each other. But a European Superstate is out of the picture.
>telegraph
Do you think tabloids journalists admit they write shit stuff for shit papers? Or do they hide to everyone, even their family?
thank you user
So...? They're just regulations about the most random stuff.
Apart from companies pushing for these using them to their benefits, I don't really see the major problem here. Just a waste of time and money.
The EU should be smaller, it's central bureaucracy reduced to a mere regulatory commission. All it should be is a common market, a free travel zone, and a common currency (but between COMPATIBLE countries) would be nice.
Also: Bring back the national post service and the lightbulb!
A common, open economic market makes sense to me even if it's inevitable that the larger members will bend rules to their advantage.
I cannot for the life of me understand how the average western yuropoor could have possibly thought that free migration would be a net positive, even before the current "refugee" crisis.
Did all the bongs/frogs/krauts just believe that they'd a bunch of cheap Polish plumbers and gardeners with no negative consequences?
Protip: immigration with complete assimilation is better known as an invasion.
All you wrote is going on in European countries but you want them out for doing good? You're weird.
But I agree, let's split EU into EWU and V4, you don't need us and we as sure don't need you, enjoy your ongoing Islamization, banning of freedom of speech and lack of democracy.
>could have possibly thought that free migration would be a net positive
The way that bullshit was fed to us at the time was "globalization can't be stopped, so we must implement it ourselves." It was a huge problem right from the beginning (armies of romanian gypsies and polish car thiefs invading the day the fences went down). But you won't find any statement about that from politicians as they are still selling the "positive effects".
You realize you pour same money into shitskins, making it even worse than slipping them into pocket of corrupted politicians? We are not more corrupted than your country, it's just more blatant and people detect it more easily because they have experience with scams of Soviet Union which are extremely similiar to those of politicians and whole EU in general, west didn't live under Soviet regime, that's why people don't resist EU which is literally same as much as we do.
> "you gonna get raped anyway, so might as well pass out free lube and keys to your house to minimize the damage"
holy fuck germoney, I'm just sorry for you guys now.
I would. But then again I see the current crisis you guys are facing as Karma. Didn't you guys go to foreign land and erased a lot of their culture? Well now the tables have turned so go deal with. You guys had your chance to prevent this, but it's too late.
I'd agree on corruptions if it were not for the manipulated elections and constitutionnal changes that are completely anti-demicratic, Hungary being big on the latter recently.
At least our elections are still democratic (for now).
globalism cant be stopped. that ship sailed in 1945. you can either choose the holy islamic reich, united jew niggers of oceania or putins mongoloid khanate
Putting the banks in control of everything was a mistake
It should be organization for trade only and stay the fuck out of domestic politics.
>I don't even get why lobbying is accepted.
people who work in the market know it better than the politicians do, whether they have interests in the market be damned
That is bullshit. Niggers and muslims still have to cross borders, at which they can be stopped. Or at least be deported if caught afterwards.
All this needs is the political will to do it.
There's no democracy in EU, if you think it is then show me online database of where your votes went in past elections. Huh? You can't? So how do you know your elections are not rigged? How do you know your vote has not been changed or used if anyway even if you didn't vote? If democracy had power to change anything it would be banned decades ago, it's just illusion of choice for regular people and I think it's clearly rigged in mine because winner is almost always someone universally hated by whole country except for few antifa and hatefree junkies.
The monetary control and single currency were almost the entire point of the EU. Without a single currency the EU is a glorified trade treaty
germany cant enforce that, it is too weak. euro countries are fundmentally different eachother and will never stay commited to any goal, even the goal of resisting integration into usa or russia. europe will stay tiny divided states for america to continue to integrate into their nigger union unless you wipe out cultural differences with mudslime genetics and instill hatred for america, niggers and jews through adopting islam
Poland has been quite successful in bringing corruption down, look at Transparency Int ranks
But I agree with you that some of this money was wasted, stolen and you should have demanded that those countries bring corruption level down first. Also it was clear that these countries will be a german area of influence
>adopting islam
Fuck off Alrawi
allahu akbar
The whole point of democracy is being free to vote for whoever you want. If people could see each other's vote, how do you think that would hold? Peer pressure, public opinion, that's important so that everyone can make their choice.
And now you're just being an ass, you're putting the burden of proof on me, for something that is supported only by you. Absence of proof that it is not rigged does not mean it is indeed rigged.
This isn't the US, you're innocent until proven guilty.
And our leaders are elected by little more than half the populations. They quickly drop in appreciation rankings afterwards, as they're bound to piss people off.
The mere fact that they win by such a small margin is "proof" enough, as they will face huge opposition whatever happens.
Better each country follow their own ways
>35th
Not bad. Much better than most of the Eastern countries. A mere 2 places after Portugal.
Then just make database closed so that only you get to see it by using credentials from your ID or government-issued login.
Sorry bub, there's no democracy, that's why you can't check your votes, that's why you're not allowed to UNVOTE what got voted in and that's why politicians are not bound by their promises or initial postures and by the time their term ends they did so many 'favors' to their peers(instad of serving people) that even if you don't vote them next time they'll still hold some power over government in society. The fact they win by such small margin is fertile ground to 'nudge few votes' in desired direction. Only Switzerland has some kind of recognizable democracy.
Why so angry, Phillipines?
We will never have a United States of Europe, Europe is way too divided for that. Still, I would like to see some kind of union. Divide the union into 3 separate economic areas: north, south and east europe. The political union would be a very loose union to handle disputes between member states and to handle international affairs which require cooperation. This union would leave member state's internal affairs to themselves as much as possible. Also, to enter or exit, countries would need a referendum: two thirds in, two thirds out. Last, but not least, kick Britain out
We have independent organisms that check that.
Hell, I helped counting votes for the last presidential elections.
And what use wouls such database be? You're not sure your vote actually went where it says it went, by your argument.
You can say everyhing is a mad conspiracy and such, but you'll just look like a retard.
>You can say everyhing is a mad conspiracy and such, but you'll just look like a retard.
It is, I'm might look like a retard but it's only question of time before normies such as yourself realize it too, NSA was just a conspriacy theory not too long ago you know? Burgers even said that they would use guns if something so insane existed. Today? We can't do anything about it and it's not considered 'insane' anymore, just like it won't be considered insane for Ahmed to fuck your 5 year daughter in front of you legally.
I want German independence. Too many people are ruled by strangers and we don't want to end up like that ever again.
If we cannot control the EU, you leave us no choice but to try and build Greater Germany.
No. EU must go.
>Greater Germany
Some FUN envisionned Hans?
would take some very interesting political circumstances to not get nato bombed or just straight up nuked
Bit h if anyone bombs anyone, everyone bombs everyone else. That's the whole point of it.
If we go down, we sure as hell are taking you with us.
except germany doesnt have the bomb
But other countries in the EU do, and it's the reason why I said that above. Just like WW1 and 2, it's a game of alliances, you end up with everyone getting caught in the crossfire, willing or not.
"Reform" has been code for "Kick the can and do nothing and hope people stop asking about how fucking corrupt we are" for over TEN YEARS.
Burn it to the ground and hang the guys behind it from lamp posts and feed their corpses to wild dogs.
>Hurr common market means remove borders and turn towns into shitholes!
>Hey the rich got richer, so the economy is better!
Fuck the EU, fuck you if you support it. You're fucking stupid.
yeah, other states that have massive geopolitical interest in avoiding grossgermania