Alright Sup Forums prove to me the health care repeal is a good thing.
>No hurr durr it's going to kill millions
>No errr nnyurr ma premiums are too high
I want the actual logical reason behind it. I don't care if it's right or wrong, I just want the logic behind it.
>Simply saying making the rich richer isn't a reason either
From an outsiders perspecitve (german), I think the main problem is factionalism within both parties. A reliable health care system should last for a few decades. Therefore, Reps and Dems have to work together to achieve sth. which both sides can live with. Otherwise, there would be a change not only within the system, but OF the system ITSELF everytime the governing party switches. Bad!
Healthcare repeal isn't a terrible idea, so long as it's replaced with something good.
The GOP bill is fucking GARBAGE. It does nothing for any American but net a nice tax break for billionaire and return power of life or death to HMOs and PPOs (their bogus "pre-existing conditions" are the reason we needed ACA in the first place). It WILL throw 24 million insured Americans off healthcare (that's per the CBO). And it WILL kill millions of Americans. These are simple, obvious facts.
In fact, the GOP's bill is so godawful, it should really be considered an enemy attack on the American people by a terrorist organization (Republicans).
If it passes (it won't), but if it does, I hope people storm the gates of Congress and put the GOP members to death, French Revolution style.
can't cause it's not.
it's only being done for two reasons. First, they made a promise for years to "repeal Obamacare" so they have to do that somehow, but they don't have any good ideas about what to do instead. So they're just proposing some garbage just so they can say they got rid of Obamacare. Second, it amounts to lots of tax cuts for the rich, which they always like no matter what. Other than these two things it serves no purpose. It's just changing to a worse version of Obamacare.
>The GOP bill is fucking GARBAGE. It does nothing for any American but net a nice tax break for billionaire and return power of life or death to HMOs and PPOs (their bogus "pre-existing conditions" are the reason we needed ACA in the first place). It WILL throw 24 million insured Americans off healthcare (that's per the CBO). And it WILL kill millions of Americans. These are simple, obvious facts
Break this down, explain how and what in it will cause this.
I don't doubt you, I just want it broken down and elaborated. At this point, it just feels like that being said is just hype.
So the repeal of the Affordable Care Act is a good thing to me. The idea behind it was that "if everybody got insurance, then premiums would be low and everyone could afford health care"
What ended up happening was younger people (myself included) didn't feel like paying for something they felt they didn't need (yes, I understand what fucking health insurance is for). Which resulted in super high and unaffordable rates.
What hes doing is allowing insurance companies to charge based on the individual (healthy people get lower rates while old and cancerfags get dicked). Long term, it'll pay off greatly. Short term, sick people get financially rekt. I think too many people look at the short term when making decisions in politics though.
Also younger peiple not getting health insurance is why they started to penalize people who didn't have it.
Because no matter how you word stealing people money to redistribute it to services they may not benefit from at all is immoral and wrong. Benefiting from the sweat of your neighbors brown by force is wrong.
So the entire idea of this repeal is to make it so insurance companies can charge based on individuals? I'm guessing that means at the moment they have to give everyone the same rate?
I guess I could see that being better in the long term and crazy bad in the short term.
But why can't people who can't afford health care just stay on ACA?
>(healthy people get lower rates while old and cancerfags get dicked)
>Long term, it'll pay off greatly.
Bullshit.
This is the OPPOSITE of insurance.
This is how it works WITHOUT insurance.
Insurance works because the people who don't need it pay for the people who will need it.
Otherwise - you're just paying for your own healthcare.
Right, and insurance companies dislike this because they liked tje fact that the government was trying to force everyone to get health care. It means they would have busniess.
Because Obama Care is also crazy expensive. Everyone I know on it pays around $750 a month for them and their family.
Lol why would an insurance company charge someone who is about to die $20 a month (or whatever rate you think is low) when they'll have to end up paying their hospital bills?
>I want the actual logical reason behind it.
No, you don't. You are fact immune and want a fight. Mark Twain said it best "Never get into an argument with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
That's why when an idiot says something, I do nothing but laugh and walk away.
I work as a technologist in a specialized medical lab, and all I can say is since Obama care/aca we have had a huge influx of patients. Many more people actually able to afford some if these specialized medical tests that they could not afford before.
However, since there are so many more patients, people do have to wait longer, and results take longer to come back.
What's better, what's the answer? I have no idea, but something needs to be done, and I hope people can put the politics bullshit behind them to actually work out a good solution. Anyone who thinks we have a good system here in he states has not spent much time in the healthcare system. Unless maybe your a shit doctor who basically gets paid a shit ton just for your fucking signiture after all the work is done for you when it gets to you.
>be me
>be grown up, old enough to be you fucks father
>save up money to live on
>quit employer job, become independent contractor
>life is better
>have to get on ACA Obamacare tho
>average plan, $600/month in my state
>show lower income as contractor
>govt subsidy takes it down to $150/month
>get sick
>go in for out-patient surgical treatment
>get better
>my cost: $0.00
>zero fucking dollars
ACA is great.
Trumpcare would make my lose my subsidy so insurance would become unaffordable as a contractor
I'd have to go back to an employer-based job
I would be less productive and less happy
>the more you know about American healthcare, the better ACA looks
but lets face it, since every other decent country in the world has govt-funded healthcare,
let's admit that the USA is just dumb-fuck stupid.
>Fact immune and want a fight
I just want some insight? I have no plans to argue with what anyone says. I might repeat and break things apart just to understand what people are saying.
Hmmm, then this seems to be the divide.
One guy says it costs upwards $700 but you say it's $150
Does this vary between location?
Is there another factor that dictates the cost?
>Assuming everyone is telling the truth
>logical
TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL KILL MIRANDA COSGROVE IF TRUMP WILL SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#FUCKYOULAWRENCE #FUCKYOUDAVID #FUCKYOUSPENCER #FUCKYOULILA #FUCKYOUCHANTAL #FUCKYOUPATCH #FUCKYOUMIKAELA #FUCKYOUJACOB
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FUCK YOU, LIGHTBEARER CHRISTIAN ACADEMY!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!
I WANT TO MISBEHAVE IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO SHOUT AND YELL AND SCREAM IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO SEE CHILDREN WEARING THEIR UNDERWEAR IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO KICK YOU OR ONE OF YOUR STUDENTS IN THE MOTHERFUCKING ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#FUCKYOULAWRENCE #FUCKYOUDAVID #FUCKYOUSPENCER #FUCKYOULILA #FUCKYOUCHANTAL #FUCKYOUPATCH #FUCKYOUMIKAELA #FUCKYOUJACOB
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Well he said it was initially $600 but with proof of income they lowered it to $150.
I don't have it so I don't know the inner workings of it too much but from what I see majority it $700+ a month
Two major factors:
1. Some states have crippled ACA's influence with their enforcement.
2. A LOT of HMOs and PPOs raised their own rates arbitrarily when ACA was passed to make stupid people think it was the result of ACA.
The other guy is accusing of Sealioning- acting polite but really trolling.
Let's say you're sincere, user. The facts have been pretty well discussed. The crux of the ACA was the individual mandate (i.e. Making everyone buy in to spread the risk, or how insurance works) and the pre-existing conditions clause.
The AHCA does away with those two things. So it makes it unaffordable, and it makes sudden illness or misfortune almost punitive. And then there's the issue with allowing the insurance firms to define a pre existing condition.
Also the language used to justify the vote has been riddled with language that's demoralizing to those who have been through medical trauma.
The real thing to get angry about? The people who voted yes get to keep their cover per the ACA. it explicitly protects the existing health care for members of congress.
So why not work on this and fix it?
Fix it how? It's all legal to do that.
Well, currently we have hypercapitalist, fascist, anti-American swine who don't give a flying fuck about any Americans controlling the House and Senate, so nothing that SHOULD get done will until we fix that first.
Once sane, competent people are in charge, they'll oust the retarded orangutan and get back to fixing things for the People.
So basically it's going to fuck up people who currently thriving on the system as it is?
If the idea is the long term is better, why not implement something to help ease the massive bad turn out with it being repealed?
>Basically replace it with something short term that gets people off what they're on and onto something just as good
Idk, maybe it shouldn't be?
Yo no ad hominem in here.
Maybe it shouldn't be. Ok. Not sure where that thread goes if you pull on it.
When you say "thriving", you betray your motives and ideology. No-one "thrives". Healthcare isn't a product you can game.
Why does the government just come up with something that motivates people to be healthier?
Then when the bullshit problems get fixed on their own, there's less demand to fix stuff and less expense and then gov' health care won't cost as much.
No body gets taxed as much, no one bitches as much. People actually dieing can get some help.
>If your health condition is because of a poor lifestyle and can't be proven otherwise, you don't qualify
>You're permitted help under the basis it's because of your poor lifestyle but if you show improvements within the next 30 days time period you stay on coverage as long as you keep improving
I mean, it's kind of bullshit anyone should have to pay for some fat fucks medicine because they want to eat 20 McDoubles twice a day.
I'd rather my tax dollars go to help some poor guy with cancer who just managed to start pulling his life together but gets smacked with bad luck.
It's pooled risk, you charge more for people of a higher risk but never more than you would pay out, we need low risk in scheme to help towards pool premiums that are used to cover expenses/payouts and to turn a profit or the whole system goes down, in short either everyone must have it or no one, anything inbetween just fucks premiums as it get weighted to either end of the risk spectrum...i'm an underwriter, this is the sort of shit we deal with on a daily basis.
The only problem with this is that this is not how a society should function. Why should people with pre existing conditions be forced to suffer because they cannot afford it IF the greater soc iety CAN afford to pay for it? Which is what happens now for the most part under the ACA. This is why the ACA had to be put in place. Before this health insurance companies would just drop you if you had cancer etc or just flat out refuse to insure you if you had a pre existing condition like Cerebral Palsy ALS etc.This makes sense from the insurance companies perspective because you are not a risk, you are a guaranteed loss for the company. You would end up with MASSIVE premiums, assuming you could even find a company to insure you. It's representative of one of the kinks in the machinery of capitalism and free markets. While im usually pro freemarket systems (creates competition drives prices down etc etc) the issue is that when something that can be considered a societal need is privatized, citizens usually get the short end of the stick. This is why Electricity companies were forced to become Utilities, and essentially are overseen by the govt (in the US). Because power is seen as a Utility, or a basic human need in American Society. Healthcare works similarly. The Private healthcare system has NO DOUBT produced astounding advances in medical tech and treatment, but at the cost of these companies charging massive amounts of money for treatment etc. We need to fund payment for these treatments as a group and also inflict our will on the insurance companies via government oversight.
Sometimes big govnerement can be bad, but in this case we've ALREADY seen what the insurance companies do when there is no oversight. they fuck people over. And that wouldn't be a big deal here in America if they weren't providing a service that we deem totally necessary for every citizen.
This is also why under the ACA you are REQUIRED to have insurance or you are penalized.
They don't give everyone the same rate. It depends entirely on your tax situation. I was unemployed due to health reasons, but because my wife was still working, it would cost 600 dollars a month for the most basic health plan that there was, despite me being in the "credited" bracket.
Obamacare is shit. Either you want universal healthcare, or private healthcare. Not a hodgepodge of both. Instead we get a system that allows pharma companies not to have to compete with other companies outside of their states of operation.
Hold up I got this.
Deadloacked shit senate and house reps who are more loyal to the lobbyists who write them checks than their consituents.
Gerrymandered county and electoral lines that unfairly skew the elections in one way or another (depending on your region, sorry lib-cucks u do it too)
Mostly it boils down to a lack of citizen activism and participation in their government couple with their representatives lack of fear of their voter base.
Basically senators house reps etc etc don't GAF about their voters and their voters apparently don't give a fuck becuase
cnn.com
voter turnout was a 20 year low in 2016.
Solution: Motivate people to get involved either involved peacefully or violently. I honestly think the latter is whats going to happen, but I'd like to just see some peacful reform. Doubt it tho,
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>While im usually pro freemarket systems (creates competition drives prices down etc etc) the issue is that when something that can be considered a societal need is privatized, citizens usually get the short end of the stick.
Most intelligent statement in the thread.
Almost everything you use in your life can best be obtained through the free market.
Health care is not one of those things.
Because if you get fucked over, it's not like you can walk down the street to the next shop.
You'll be dead.
Lmao.
Back up just in case you stupid might be contagious.
Pretty much this. People have been ignored for far too long and our primary parties won't put up decent candidates, and actively demonize people for voting one way or the other, or blame 3rd party candidates for losing.
>I think too many people look at the short term when making decisions in politics though.
Count yourself among them buddy.
Don't lose your job then.
It should either be completely subsidized, and taken out through taxes, without all the bullshit and be a flat rate, or it needs to be privatized. Obamacare is neither, nor is whatever the fuck the GOP bill is.
This!
The real reason why the USA will never have gov't healthcare?
The current insurance market is welfare for middle-man paper pushers.
With govt healthcare, hundreds of thousands of (useless) people will become unemployed.
Claims adjusters, actuarial analysts, the bosses and secretaries that support them, etc.
These are not useful skills. They are middlemen between the patient and the medial provider.
But the USA will not throw so many people out of work, so we are stuck with insurance.
The ACA/Obamacare plan was the best balance between having a private-insurance system with the benefits of full govt coverage.
The Trumpcare AHCA plan is just a tax cut.
Literally.
That's why they only need 51 votes to pass it in the Senate.
>Obamacare was the best balance between having a private insurance system with the benefits of the full govt coverage
Pretty sure that's medicare, bud.
define "good thing"
in my opinion anything that lowers the cost of health care to make it accessible to actual working, productive, non-piece-of-shit americans is a good thing
let the lazy poor rot for all I care. obamacare was so expensive i had to cancel my insurance. I work my ass off and get nothing meanwhile bums and hobos and shit get all the healthcare they need. goddamn bullshit.
lmao, you're a moron and that post is 100% correct. How do you take it as anything less?
>I WILL KILL MIRANDA COSGROVE IF TRUMP WILL SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wtf just read
>Pretty sure that's medicare, bud.
If everyone in the USA is on medicare,
then most (all?) insurance employees will be out of work.
Medicare for all is basically the USA plan for all-govt healthcare.
Since the USA will never throw that many people off of work,
ACA/Obamacare is the best we can do.
most don't understand that the system was working before the ACA. also that the ACA fucked over a lot of small businesses that had full time employees. I has to cut my employees back to 30 hours or less.
>A LOT of HMOs and PPOs raised their own rates arbitrarily when ACA was passed to make stupid people think it was the result of ACA.
So they did in fact raise their rates because of the ACA?
Once fat people start feeling shame and offing themselves we wont even need the health care
>inb4spontaniouscancerpatients
You know to some degree you agree with me.
We really should have prioritized that rather then enlisting the youth for the war on lack-of-insurence
I don't want health insurance. Got hit for $1,400 in tax penalties this year.
Obama is the most effective mugging nigger of all time.
OP here, proud of you faggots.
I know I'm ruining it, but I'm proud we made it this far without breaking out the memes. Pretty good read so far, seeing what people actually think rather than thinking a cluster fuck of fat idiots all drooling at the key board arguing "Republicans vs Democrats"
But if you got hurt, the rest of us would be paying for your broke ass because you'd go bankrupt instead of paying the hospital bill
The Obamacare penalty helps save the rest of us from your irresponsible ass.
>So they did in fact raise their rates because of the ACA?
>rates raised after ACA passed
>rates raised EVERY year, just like home values, etc
>rates raised LESS percentage-wise because of Obamacare
...
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I would just pay cash, not that I care very much. And I'm not a retard that would do something to get hurt in the first place.
What was user even trying to say then?
First, prove to me that universal healthcare is a good thing
Protip: you cant
>And I'm not a retard that would do something to get hurt in the first place.
>I would never get in a car accident
>I would never get mugged by a criminal
>I would never have anything happen to me as a result of someone else
idiots
it's a right that most civilized societies recognize you thundering moron. The rich have convinced morons like you otherwise since they want a tax break.
Its estimated that 27 percent of people under 65 have a pre-existing condition under this. I have a hard time believing you don't have a mom or dad, brother or sister or uncle...I mean someone that you love that won't get fucked over by this.
And that number gets higher when you consider people over 65. But hey, I guess these people don't care about their grandparents. Cut their healthcare, cut their social security. You get to pay 1500 less in taxes.
Victory right?
businessinsider.com
Take a fucking look around.
Here we are in a world overpopulated and plagued by fucks who should rightfully be dead. There is no good reason to keep anybody alive. If anything our efforts should be to kill each other.
>I would never get in a car accident
I drive a tank of a pickup and have driven for work for decades, nothing is going to catch me off guard
>I would never get mugged by a criminal
Grew up in the city and got stuck in karate class by my mom for 5 years. 6'2" 155, bitch, try to mug me
>I would never have anything happen to me as a result of someone else
I'm always aware of who's around me
Fuck niggercare and fuck welfare and fuck you
BTW, this is just proof that the heads of the GOP aren't racist like the crybaby feminist crowd likes this think.
The GOP heads only see money and their self interests. They will completely fuck you and millions of other poor and middle class Americans over for 6 figure checks.
They will cut funding to rural Americans.
They will slash social security for the elderly(who are disproportionately white).
They will cut aid to opiod adicts(again, disproportionately white).
And the sad part is that the people who vote these assholes in are old white people who are cutting down their lifespan.
>this is what a lack of fresh air and sunlight does to a kid
It isn't a good thing.
Both sides working together hasnt happened since Clinton...
Both sides work together when big business begs for money.
I mean on something useful
>i am a perfect person who never makes a mistake and is beloved by all of mankind, I will live forever
idiots
posting itt: idiots pretending young children never get sick
>nothing is going to catch me off guard
Im sorry, sir. You have cancer.
my cousin dies at 16 from bone cancer. Guess he should have driven a tank of a pickup?
>Im sorry, sir. You have cancer.
Can't you read?
He's going to karate chop cancer.
And his tears cure all disease.
Too bad he's never cried.
...
Are you 12? Because most people realize they're mortal before they're teenagers. I really hope you're just pretending to be this dense.
Fuck your bitch ass cousin, you pay for his problems.
42
Oh to be young and invincible. I understand your feeling. I felt the same way ... But boy does it suck that one day life comes along and kicks you in the nuts. Testicular cancer here at the age of 32.
wew lad
confirmed for underage. Doesn't yet know anyone who died from cancer.
Hopefully he wisens up before he's old enough to vote.
Okay, so just stupid then.
>42
Oh, then, excuse me, Rep. Paul Ryan.
Thanks for explaining your health care philosophy to us.
lol we asked YOUR age, not your dad's age.
Just not a bitch to the government.
Loved Willow
I don't know all the details. I think the big deal is that it doesn't force people to buy insurance they can't afford. There is still the risk of medical bankruptcy, but what is the point of high premiums and high deductibles? That is not a practical protection
if you're worried about being someone's bitch, I got bad news for ya kiddo
Its hilarious, I see all of these threads on Sup Forums about net neutrality, and this healthcare bill, and the majority of people here hate it. Has Sup Forums turned left wing?
Or are you all smarter than the boomer dumbass Republicans who mindlessly suck their presidents dick.
Kinda like the "SUPPORT THE IRAQ WAR OR YOURE UNPATRIOTIC FREEDOM FRIES" crowd?
net neutrality you say?
Moderate, both sides are owned by the 1%, so I ignore both.
The CBO hasn't commented on this bill yet
If you're not just baiting I want you to know you might literally be retarded. Like, not being a dick, if you are so disconnected from reality that you think nothing bad can possibly happen to you, there is a good chance you have mental health problems. Which ironically you should probably see a doctor about.
shallow thinkers easily become disillusioned with politics such that they start thinking all the candidates are the same, so voting doesn’t matter. Meanwhile, the far-right gets its voters out, takes power, and starts stripping society for parts.
Remember how its the Obamacare of the internet?
How does anyone who isn't making 200k a year or more keep getting conned into voting for these assholes.
Don't give a shit
all signs point to their response confirming garbage quality.
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