Just Watched, how TF did this get any hate?

Just watched this about 5 minutes ago. Held back on seeing it for the crazy amount of hate it got. This is literally capellini.

The only Marvel films that are as good or better than BvS are:
>Winter Soldier
>Iron Man 1
>Avengers
>Incredible Hulk (despite being forgotten)

GoTG is a close runner up to this list but it's so formulaic it hurts despite being pretty funny.

So how and why did this get any hate? I understood the whole plot first time seeing it. The flashbacks and dream sequences made complete sense and added to the film. The Knightmare sequence may have been normie repellent but other than that the whole movie made sense so I do not understand why this movie got a 20% on RT, that is COMPLETELY unwarranted.

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Kek, I intended to type capekino but I like capellini so sorry not sorry

Also... People ripped on Bats killing people when Cap and Tony of the MCU kill people all the time.

Batfleck is a better Batman than Chris Pratt is Starlord, than Hemsworth is Thor and than Scarlett is Black Widow. And that's after he kills 20 plus people

It's a movie composed of moments with filler inbetween, stupid plot devices and a shitload of plot holes

You are literally a dumb person.

It wasn't "fun". That's really it. Also the Martha scene. It was essentially the same type of criticism that MoS got. It took itself way more seriously than the more light-hearted Marvel flicks.

I myself enjoyed it immensely the first time around, and the Ultimate Edition really does fix the pacing issues and fleshes out certain concepts only scratched upon in the Theatrical version. It's not for everyone though, especially those with terrible attention spans or those who use talking scenes as time to check their phones.

Everyone knows Scarlett is a shit Black Widow.

becouse people can't handdle the truth that BvS, wich is shit, is still a step ahead on superhero movies

There was a good film hidden in here.

Should have been about an hour and forty five minutes long. Didn't really need Wonder Woman in there either.

There was hardly any action until the 45 min mark - which is pretty unacceptable for an action movie.

t. i have no opinions of my own

Honestly no studio should green light a 3 hour comic book movie
Plus it's just too earnest for its own good. While it's a bit cynical , Marvels Quips keeps things light and fun.

Also doomsday sucked and was unnecessary.

The ultimate cut is 8/10 flick

I agree, OP. In fact, I think it's one of the most comic-book cape films ever made on top of just really being a visual masterpiece.

marvel quips literally make me stop watching the movie

same

I think the quips help take people out of the film or they will realize that it's all so stupid

It's actually not a bad move

Nu males

Other Marvel films, despite being bad as well, had some spirit, personality, and didn't take themselves too seriously. BvS is a glorified pretentious art film that takes itself way more seriously than it should.

Difference being that Iron Man and Cap have never mad moral quandaries about killing, whereas in pretty much every conceivable medium, Batman has been vocally against it.

>MUH GOLDEN AGE COMICS

I like Batman killing in those comics, but like most relics, it belongs in the past.

Previous movie Batmans have killed. Only difference it was all indirectly. Batfleck would've gotten a pass if he done that too.

It's a launch pad for JLA

I for one watched the Ultimate Edition and really enjoyed it. It seems a lot of the problems people had with coherence were due to the shitty editing of the theatrical release

Snyder and his writers have a pretty firm grasp of the niches these characters occupy in pop culture. The decision to show the Batman so far outside his established code is justifiable both from a lore perspective given the portion of his arc being depicted as well as an allegorical angle, given that he is unquestionably serving as a personification of post-911 western society.

We don't like this Batman's actions. When seeing his embrace of torture and his "warfare," those familiar at all with the character recoil, rejecting this incarnation. What does this tell us about ourselves?

If the overwhelming majority of critics were smart enough to comprehend this, such a seemingly "leftist" message would have earned this movie near-universal praise, but not only are they too dull to see it, they would stop there without ever stopping to consider the following:

If the Batman represents the post-911 West, what does that say about what Superman represents within this context? What about Lex?

Snyder - really makes you think.

Not sure about Lex, but as he does most often I believe Supes stands for what we could be and what we should be in the face of such a chaotic and merciless world.

I really enjoyed the discussion between Clark and Ghost-Pa Kent. It really humanized the film, Clark and the central moral question of how we deal with the consequences of intervention on a global scale. Clark learns to take his love for Lois and use it as a means to drive him to save humanity. His relationship with Lois is proof in his eyes that humanity is worth protecting despite harsh consequences, and that we are all capable of moving beyond violence, anger and hate. Even Bruce is convinced of this by the end of the film when he vows to help humanity improve and stand for what Superman stood for.

Superman personifies the idolization of power within American Society.

>batman killing
There are so many incarnations and depictions of the Bat that it's hard to tell what he's supposed to do.

He kills in other movies. Batman Begins, he kills Ra's Al Ghul. I don't give a fuck if he said "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you", he purposely crashed the fucking train and left a man in there to die. And earlier dialogue confirms that it was his plan all along. He knew he was going to kill him.

Snyder went for a broken batman, after many years in Gotham, had enough of the shit and decided criminals can go fuck themselves. Which is a-okay, considering the amount of Batman media that does the same.

>the film itself
The theatrical cut was GOOD, nothing more though. But when you throw Batman and Superman into the same film, it better be fucking amazing, and people were disappointed when it was somewhat of a mess.

The ultimate cut fixed a lot of issues, however.

It also relied upon people knowing comic book lore a lot more than the Marvel films, where you could just go into them without any knowledge and have fun. BvS relying on this knowledge of the universe, and being a darker, grittier tone, left many people confused and frustrated.

All in all, 27% is fucking horseshit and being a """"critic"""" once again proves to be one of the most conceptually retarded jobs on the planet. Literally "here, this is what you should like!"

Putting a bomb on a guy is indirect.

Most people I talk to said they stopped caring after the flash gave that message to Bruce. Most of these people didn't even know that was supposed to be the flash.

>how TF did this get any hate

It wasn't -bad- per se, but it was trying too hard to be an edgy Marvel film, and it didn't even live up to that.

>Batman had a rushed origin story even if we all already know it
>Absolutely no character development
>Wonder Woman's Character was forced and had no impact on the plot
>The whole Justice League secret files scene in particular was forced and unnecessary - would have been better as an after credits scene if anything
>MARTHA

The film felt really really forced, and not a natural plot. It tried to be a Marvel movie and that's why it failed.

Remember:
>Marvel had been setting up the MCU for years before we had any crossovers
>We already had a personal connection with every Marvel hero before crossovers happened, and therefore they felt more rewarding

But on the positive side, I liked this Lex Luther

I totally agree, but explore another angle with me briefly, bearing in mind that it in no way contradicts or invalidates the story as viewed from other perspectives.

Batman
>traumatized by an invasive attack on his "home"
>witnesses his tower fall
>resorts to torture and "warfare" in retaliation of these events
>lies about a WMD to justify his "war"(Alfred, the White Portugese, and the dirty bomb)
>vilifies his "enemy" based solely off where he's from and what he *might* do
He is the West.

Superman
>politically polarizing
>constantly associated with bombings and massacres, though blameless
>makes little effort to establish a dialogue with his accusers and unambiguously define himself and what he stands for
>thinks that simply keeping his mouth shut and letting his actions speak for him is all it takes, though slowly comes to realize it's not enough
He is mainstream Islam, the "good Muslim" community.

Lex Luthor
>heavily tied to the government and weapons development
>the driving force behind factional "shadow interventions" in war-torn parts of the world
>the "money" behind privatized paramilitary "civilian contractors"
>seeks to create a "boogeyman" to further his own selfish ends through fear-mongering and the politics of divisiveness
He is the ultra-rich corporate portion of the military-industrial complex.

This

I believe this is 100% coincidental.

>I believe this is 100% coincidental.
If not intentional, that isn't coincidental, that's divine fucking providence.

It's clear Snyder Terrio and Affleck all had big ideas behind the film. Just because you aren't intellectually capable of parsing through such ideas in a film doesn't mean they aren't there.

Or you're a delusional DCuck who is projecting his opinions to a film where Batman hits Superman over the head with a sink.

Out of My Fucking Way Millenial Nu-male Fucking Shits - The Movie
Essesntial Mankino 2016 10/10 would watch again. Thank you Zack Snyder.

>that's divine fucking providence.

No, that's human minds struggling to find meaning in what is a complete and total mess of half-cocked allusion, half-understood references, and shotgun symbolism.

Something snyder is doing with the superman films because its what nolan did in the dark knight.

Cap is a soldier who killed hundred of nazis already and Tony is a badass while Batman made an oath not to kill

this is why people hate these movies, Supes is just floating up there instead of quickly saving those people and the only reason is because Snyder though it would look "cool"

My reading of the Batman thing, on top of the obvious post 9/11 parallel with him literally quoting Cheney, is that in every adaptation up until that point Batman had killed. Because he was alone, without Superman. Now that Superman, and the larger DC Universe is here, he has to change, he has to be not just a vigilante but a superhero.


Batman has been alone in the movies for so long, just like Batfleck was lone. There were attempts at bringing Robin into the movies, but it didn't work, so Robin died in pop culture. We turned Batman into this lone killer with no Robin, and now Superman is saving him.

Or, even better, using some of his superpowers to staunch the flood.

But I guess if superman was remotely intelligent in the snyderverse, the justice league would be all the more laughable.

>they introduce the flash

... fuck

Batman isn't real. There is no oath. He's a fictional character with many interpretations

it had the same problem as iron man 2 , muddy focus due to studio shoehorning of MUH CINEMATIC UNIVERSE
that said its really not that bad a movie , more of a raw diamond that needed to be cut to beauty

probably one of the few modern cape flicks id watch again.

at least its better than Civil War

I guess that makes Zod the militant Muslim? Religiously fixated on imposing his way of life on others who he considers to be lesser.

Not only is BvS too smart for the casual movie goer, but even Man of Steel is literally too sophisticated for the average comic book fan (go look at the thread on that board right now and weep at the dearth of intelligence on display, it's resoundingly pathetic)

I liked it up until Lex Luthor showed up. It was own hill from there.

How did Snyder make a decent fight between Superman and Zod in a mediocre movie turn around and make a laughable fight between the title characters in BvsS?

> Martha
> Being released in the same decade as Civil War kino

I wonder if anyone actually likes Civil War...not that it was bad but I wonder if anyone would say "yea its great"

I'd probably say it was 7/10 film but someone must love it, right? Felt like it could have been a decent movie before disney got their mitts on it and forced it to be a super mega avengers cross over.

No one's in immediate danger, and you're missing the point of that entire montage. That's the moment when he realizes what's happening and exactly how people are seeing him. He's becoming a god in their eyes. Just as a refresher, pic-related are how things looked from his view. "HELP" would have done just fine. Instead they drew a magic symbol on the roof of their house and waited on the "man in the sky" to save them. His symbol of hope is turning into the centerpiece of ritual.

Also, one of the running subtexts that carries forward from Man of Steel is how easy it would be for Superman to overstep, to do too much. Go back and watch the bus scene from Man of Steel.

youtube.com/watch?v=qBII6aJ1RSM

Notice how we're given a shot of the bus's "Stop" sign swinging out before it hits the water. As a kid who rode the bus to school, I can tell you that that only happens when the driver opens the door. If you notice, the bus's front door is already open when the bus reaches the river bank. It's subtle and it's fast, but there's a message there:

Clark could have gently ushered the kids out either the front exit or the emergency exit he himself retained the presence of mind to open. Instead, he overstepped. He did too much, and pushed the entire bus clear of the water and risked exposing himself decades before he was ready for that sort of responsibility.

Compare that message to the quick scene in the Ultimate Cut's bombing aftermath. He drops off a bombing victim to a waiting EMT who tells him, "Thanks. I, uh, need a little room to work here." This comes after we're treated to not only the heroic montage, but also Wally's wall of newspaper clips detailing just exactly all the things Superman's been up to in the two years he's been around.

He's doing too much and not saying nearly enough. You can't allow actions alone to define you, as doing so allows others to paint in whatever political skew they want in the absence of a dialogue.

That's a very insightful interpretation. Thanks for sharing that.

That's not much of a stretch, really. Zod's definitely an extremist. It's easy to see how he and Kryptonian society had come to enshrine science as their true religion as embodied in their fiercely deterministic genetics program.

When Jor tells him they've had a natural child and his response is "Heresy!" that pretty much says it all.

This fucker gets it

Like, damn, I thought it was just me, but to me the characterization of Batfleck feels very much like a deconstruction of Batman within popular culture

Only saw ultimate version. It was pretty decent with the exception of Amazon bitch entry/fighting/music.

I just watched
Captain America Winter Soldier
and
BvS was a lot better than that steaming pile of ass.