I'm watching Star Trek for the first time and i have one question

I'm watching Star Trek for the first time and i have one question.

What is so bad about VOY and ENT?

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No Tasha

>What is so bad about VOY and ENT?
UPN.

Voyager completely ditches it's premise of being alone fucking far away from home with crew that are supposed to hate eachother. Writing is also inconsistent as hell, to point where you start to suspect that they had two completely different creative teams working on show. In half of episodes Janeway is totally by the book officer... while in other half it's who cares about prime directive.

Enterprises main story line was timetravel mess that undermines it's prequel setting badly. Everything is manipulated from future. It only takes off on it's own at last two seasons. It took time for producers to realize that it's 80's or 90's anymore.

Everything about voyager is a mess

For Enterprise, trying to use an 80s-90s show format for a 2000-era program made it feel dated as soon as it premiered (comfy as fuck though). But its biggest problem was that the producers and writers had basically run out of ideas and didn't know how to make a proper prequel story. They really couldn't help forcing precursors of the the Akira design, the Prime Directive, phasers, photon torpedoes, Borg, Ferengi, Data ancestors, etc. to connect Enterprise to the rest of the franchise.

Rarely did I ever get the feeling that they were from the past roughing it out in a pre-Federation galaxy. Voyager suffered from a similar problem of writer's block. They basically either recycled old TNG plots or dug through the bottom of the "rejected ideas" barrel.

enterprise gets a bad wrap
its to modernized and flashy for some i think

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Both Borg and Ferengi episodes were amazing, fun fan service episodes of sort. Regeneration also connects it nicely to First Contact.

I like ship design on both inside and out.

Also. Suggested refit for ship that was outright rejected by B&B.

B&B just needed to die in a freak office fire.

Agreed. Might have been right guys at right place in early 90's, but they didn't progress with the medium.

What's wrong with design for the B&B accepted version? I find it fitting considering humans are still considered militaristic savages in that time period.

Nothing wrong with Voyager it just simply wasn't as good as the previous treks.

ENT was just a bad idea from the start, never do a prequel if your genre is sci-fi.

As I already said I like it, but overall ship design for ENT goes as following. They tried couple things that looked a lot like original series Enterprise. Because that was too similar.... suits decided out of the blue that they will use pic related design from TNG-era as it fucking was. At this point the part of production crew who gave a fuck about quality of show tried steer 'em into more sensible direction and designed something that looks close enough so suits don't notice.

Same shit happened with Klingon ship. TOS/movie era Klingon cruiser was used because suits considered that new Klingon cruiser had too few windows. Who cares about slight continuity errors like ships appearing hundred years earlier than it's supposed to.

Would you like me to tell you about anything Troi?

>muh dick

I personally liked Enterprise... but the decision to go with time travel as the premise for everything was a bad idea. You need brilliant writers to not overlook all the mistakes that are made with plot using time travel.

If I knew why Voy and Ent were so bad I'd be working at CBS.

As it is, basically just boils down to the fact they're poorly written. The plots come off as stupid or techno-babbly and the characters are rarely sympathetic.

That said, Voyager isn't that bad. Enterprise is unwatchable.

How is ENT unwatchable?
I'm almost done watching the 1st season and while it may be a little basic at times it's still good.

>Enterprise is unwatchable.

Last two seasons are good, especially the last one with different showrunner. The mini-arch format where almost every episode is two or three part story is a good compromise between modern running story show and episodic series. First two seasons also have bunch of good episodes.

>"Two Vulcans stroll into a bar, hustle a few games of pool and walk out with an armload of TV dinners. Sounds like an old episode of The Twilight Zone!"
>- Tucker

Its ok on the second season now.The murrica fuck yeah opening is kinda annoying.Trek is supposed to be about world unity.

I'd watch a human supremacy star trek series.

It's been a long road, getting from there to here...

Even the song will grow on you.

Okay. How about three part episode herr Paxton?

I like the song, couldn't they put some Russian space shit in there?

ISS is there, that has couple Russian modules and couple Soyuz capsules in it.

NASA has lot more good quality film footage on their free to use stocks as Soviet Union was pretty secretive in many ways about their space exploits, I would have used a snapshot of Gagarin in orbit TV-footage in credits. There is actually episode that revolves around Sputnik.

>Even the song will grow on you.
It did... and then season 3 opening song came along.

Shit, wrong gif.

>picard never had to wrestle the rock

I only ever watched voyager high late at night on sci-fi channel I thought it was decent.

Voyager was a fucking mess of just bad writing. Enterprise fixed it but only in season 3. Problem is they could only fix so much, they started with terrible ideas for characters. Reed was made to be the most boring character ever and that isn't a way to make a good character. The Boomer had potential but they didn't know what to do with him and The Coms lady was stuck in perpetual "oh I'm scared of everything" space.

no, it didn't. I love the show but hated that theme ever fucking time.

this

at first I didn't like it, but after a while I actually never skipped the intro and then came this other shitty version

>What's wrong with design for the B&B accepted version?

It was just an Akira ripoff and makes the evolution of the saucer hull design look really inconsistent.

>mfw you and your rape-gang will never get her

The NX class only looked good at certain angles.

Forward/Aft/Ventral/Dorsal all looked retarded.

>warp factor 6.3 for 8 hours
What? I thought they achieved warp 4+ much later.

Proof. It looks like a frog.

It's the kind of vessel I would assign to an alien of the week.

They had almost 5 from the start.

>What is so bad about VOY and ENT?

Voyager is REALLY poorly written. Like holy shit bad. Terrible execution of it's interesting premise, bad episodic stories, terrible characters. Just awful in all ways, for seven whole years. No final payoff, either.

Enterprise is super boring. Immediately wastes it's also interesting premise by doing the exact same episodic Star Trek stuff, except now it's like a third generation photocopy, shitty and degraded because it's so formulaic. After it's first two seasons, when they could see how they were failing, they rolled the dice and completely shook things up. The third season is a serial story arc. The fourth seasons is fanservice prequel++. They throw what good will those experimental seasons generated by making the series finale one of the all time worst and most insulting series finales you'll ever see, for anything.

It's interesting though. Voyager is objectively worse, but it's badness at least is interesting? You can point and laugh at a lot of it, or have fun talking about the ways it sucked. Those bad seasons of Enterprise on the other hand are just boring slogs with almost nothing of value good or bad.

Pretty much these.

B&B had run out of ideas and couldn't think outside their own box anymore. Everything was played super safe and they didn't know how to capture the essence of their premises.

>doing the exact same episodic Star Trek stuff
I don't know, i started watching ENT right after i finished DS9 and i liked it a lot mostly because the last 2 season of DS9 was all about the war and almost nothing else, i got tired of that. And yes ENT started episodic but it was about exploration finally.

To be honest I'm not a fan of the federation starship design to begin with.

>use random star trek episode generator
>two in a row Garak Episodes

I feel like I won the lottery!

...

I'm happy they rejected that, way too retro.

I'm watching this exact episode now, very comfy.

Yeah, I think that concept looks dorky in the bad way.

I just wish they'd had that NX-01 Refit version as the original, that thing looks fine and gets rid of the "it's a flipped Akira" aspect

>DS9 was all about the war and almost nothing else
DS9 was all about the characters and almost nothing else. Right up until the end, they were still finding ways to develop and grow their characters, from the main cast all the way down to minor supporting characters like Nog and Damar.

I wish Enterprise could have been a little more like that. Characters like Mayweather and Hoshi went four years without a story arc. Reed had one story arc in four years (season 3), but I don't think it was very good. Enterprise squandered its opportunities to properly utilize its characters.

Voyager is fine. It missed some opportunities but it's pretty good.
Enterprise is good but its seasons are pretty disparate. Its characters can also be lacking.
All Treks have their problems though, and I think some people just get sick of Stat Trek when they watch Voyager or Enterprise because they're the last series.
DS9 is cool, and the political intrigue is awesome, but it's really a soap opera in space.
TNG is arguably the best series, but it suffers from a slow start and an ensemble cast with the only standouts in Captain Picard and Commander Riker.
The Original Series is fine, but its attitude is different and it's pretty campy. There are plenty of episodes that have become unwatchable, and a few that were unwatchable when they aired.

>standout
your forgot Data. A lot of the time he was a plot device but when there was a character driven episode about him it would shine

That's a fair point.
Data episodes featuring him as a real character are quite good, and he does shine on those occasions. Like I said, I quite like TNG, but in my mind when the best character is a recurring feature character (Q) then the ensemble cast is like a choir, sort of working well together but with very few soloists.

I agree, and TNG managed the ensamble better than the rest. OG was the Kirk, Spock and Bones show, and it did good with that. TNG was no one character's show and I loved that. Voyager was Seven and Doctor's show cause they seemed to not know how to do anything interesting with anyone else...and those two were the best actors, besides Kate, but there was major friction there. DS9 was Sisko and....ok that one was good too for balance but it didn't seem like character plots it was more characters in an over arching story, which did great for that show. and Enterprise relied entirely upon the captain and tripp to make the show and it failed that hard

did you seriously just name supreme voyager and that fanfilm shit enterprise in the same. sentence you miserable millennial? kys

Originally it was first warp 5 capable ship, that is refit version.

>Voyager is REALLY poorly written.

It's more like inconsistently written, it has it's good and bad parts.

>bad episodic stories

Voyager has plenty of good and very good episodes.

>They throw what good will those experimental seasons generated by making the series finale one of the all time worst and most insulting series finales you'll ever see, for anything.

Fourth season showrunner was Manny Coto.... except for series finale that was done by B&B.

The problem in both shows is the fact that Trek had been rolling from mid 80's without break on tv and it had become just a job for production team and it didn't evolve with medium.

>I wish Enterprise could have been a little more like that. Characters like Mayweather and Hoshi went four years without a story arc. Reed had one story arc in four years (season 3), but I don't think it was very good. Enterprise squandered its opportunities to properly utilize its characters.

I agree on underutilization of supporting characters.

I hope the new show will focus on smaller group of main characters so they all can be used better.

why are federation ships so bad? they get fucked up by everything

>why are federation ships so bad? they get fucked up by everything

Not more than other ships. Generally space combat in Trek is pretty random and lasts as long as story pacing and effects budget allows.

Posting a screenshot from Jason in space. Come on

...

Well they are space communists.
And one of their main villian's ships are giant space dicks.

wew

that kids fuckin great, love his series.

>giant space dicks
You call that a giant space dick?

Unlike the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Cardassians and pretty much every other major faction in the galaxy, the Federation isn't on a constant war economy/footing and they don't even make warships for the most part.

>Watch
TOS
The Wrath of Khan
The Search for Spock
The Voyage Home
"09"
Into Darkness
Beyond

>Don't watch
Everything else

t. born in 1975

>"09"
>Into Darkness
>Beyond

KYS.

mad 80's/90's babby detected
would you rather watch picard sipping tea and discussing liberal cuck philosophy? LOL

Ent gets alot more hate then it deserves, the Xindi arc is GOAT and Phlox saves the series

did absolute nothing wrong

Tone it down if you want anyone to take the bait.

The rejected one looks like a projector

Then why don't these other factions keep grabbing territory from the federation without resistance? Romulans are clearly superior technology wise. Is it plot armor that keeps federation space safe?

>Then why don't these other factions keep grabbing territory from the federation without resistance?

Because the Federation keep them at bay without going full-blown war on their asses.

Now imagine what they'd actually do if they were warlike and if all those thousands of species that were part of the Federation were united in their desire to conquer and rule others.

They literally could not be stopped.

>Romulans are clearly superior technology wise.

What gave you that idea? Cloaking? Nah. Federation would have had that a long time ago if it wasn't for some treaty they signed with the Romulans when the Neutral Zone was established.

>Is it plot armor that keeps federation space safe?

Up to a certain point.

>Now imagine what they'd actually do if they were warlike and if all those thousands of species that were part of the Federation were united in their desire to conquer and rule others.
Don't need to imagine. You just described the Dominion.

Nah, Federation is even bigger than the Dominion.

And far more versatile.

Founders relied solely on the Jem'Hadar as their army, whereas the Federation could conscript from any number of species.

...

Just started watching ENT and have been pleasantly surprised through episode 4. The CG is awful and the premier was horrifically directed and edited but I was expecting even worse.

>ywn see a Star Trek from a non-extreme Terran Empire's perspective

I don't care if this is bait, these are the only star treks worth watching imo. Good taste user.

That comes with heavy implication that space hippies and Spocks Brain are better than TNG is at it's best in episodes like Yesterday's Enterprise, Cause and Effect, Pegasus, Parallels, Tapestry or Chain of Command.

Reasonable answer would be picking up Fan Collective DVD collections. Almost all of best episodes of all shows are found in those, misses few, has some overlapping and couple WTF selections.

JJ movies are shallow generic action movies. Fast and Furious sequels tier.

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VOY had a lesbian captain and no lesbian make out scenes

Waste o a show

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youtube.com/watch?v=lVIGhYMwRgs

What the hell?

Bad back or no, that's just gratuitous

What I like from every ST shows are the very different tone and moral behind it, through the captains:

> TOS
Space is a dangerous place but if you follow your guts and never fear adversity, you will triumph (and get colored girls)

> TNG
Space is actually much more complicated than previously stated, you should be careful and actually think before you act. The truth is always relative and we should always reconsider while staying true to our (kinda vague) principles.

> DS9
Space is pain and anger. Space is diverse and weird. Space is a mess. You need to take a stand and make it clear how things should be even if it means using violence.

> Voyager
Space is comfy when you have an autodoc and holochambers. Space is also fucking huge. And people are sometimes assholes to eachother. Expect if they consider you family. So you should consider all your crew family and it will be ok.

> Enterprise
Wow, space looks like fun ! Can we go there ? Oh we can ! Oh, look at those angry space smurfs ! What ? Timetravel ? Where ? I mean "When" ? I mean... oh fuck this, just look at my cute dog.

MINER RAPE GANGS

I think Enterprise is kinda underrated myself.

It captures the spirit of Star Trek quite a bit better than even TOS, in that they are exploring the universe, being surprised the hell out of by every other thing they run into, and best of all, really, barely have any idea of what they are doing. Yet they still represent, for the most part, a morally upstanding lot and present a positive view of the future.

On the other hand, the casting was really bad, the insert of the Seven-of-Nine vulcan was bad (even if her character isn't horrible, she's clearly pocket ranger bait), and then there's the temporal wars and Nazi arc. (I mean even TOS kept their Nazi theme park to a single episode).

Still better than Voyager, which was just trash all around. Janeway is practically mirror universe material, and you can literally feel what an awful time everyone was having making that beast as you watch it. No one wanted to be there.

TOS and TNG are better of course. I'm not even sure if I wanna include DS9 in a comparison of Star Trek series, as it's barely Star Trek, taking place on a station and centering around an episodic war format - but even that's still better than fucking Voyager. But, Enterprise just deserves more love than it gets.

P. much this. While we can disregard TOS, the NX01 still looks way too fucking modern for the timeperiod when it was supposed to happen. Think of the ISS with warp coils and less giblets, that's about what we should have gotten.

I had blocked that from my memory for good reason.

Actually, all their ships are warships. Fully serious, before a certain lorepoint, they were classed as cruisers and such, with the Enterprise E model being considered a battleship.

But due to being PC, all warships were called 'escort ships'. While the combat does look pretty weird and made to fit the scenario, it never really was a pivotal point, even when ships were exploding from a few photon blasts when in other circumstances their shields would have held up to multiple proton torpedo salvoes.

But eh, trek, it never really had consistent laws of combat, especially if you add in technobabble.

VOY isn't bad at all. Overall much better than DS9.

It's cool that his acting permeated the character. Riker was always pretty chill and swanky. His chairsit in particular.

Meh, I liked it... It looks clunky and not particularly imposing, and they were fairly consistent in making the aesthetic theme of most of the human tech match.

The fully-white washed Enterprise from TOS is so majestic it looks like something some super-tech aliens would bring forth while raining down threats to incinerate your cities. (Which, in the Mirror Universe, it actually does.) The all-white classic smooth design looks too perfect and seamless, like something from an invincible apex civilization.

Meanwhile, the final product in Enterprise thing looks like what it is - a science vessel from a starter civilization, expecting some trouble, and thus packing some heat, but far, far from the baddest mother fucker in the Valley of Death.

It doesn't make sense that this design would result in the design seen in NCC-1701 such a short time later, but it fits the theme of the show it's in perfectly.

Depends who you ask, some may like the character developments of DS9, others the more action-packed Voyager. Both had their shitty times. From wormhole aliens to ... /that/ particular Voyager episode which is the worst episode ever made which was branded as Star Trek.

How can I subscribe to your blog?

Eva Habermann was the best Zev. Then they killed her off and replaced her with that silicone freak with fish lips.

Odo, Quark, and Dukat carry the show in terms of character. And Dukat is completely ruined by the end of it.

voyager is great, enterprise was shit

I'm a different user. But yeah, I honestly would rather watch Picard talk about philosophy while sipping tea. Way better than watching "Anamorphic Lens Flare: The Movie"