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Is there modern classical music?
Charles Kelly
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Jordan Ross
of course dummy
Jacob Brown
yes. it's overall not that good. classical music took a while to recover from the avante-garde shit of the 50s and 60s.
Brayden Ortiz
Yes. It is incredibly varied. Some is hyper-complex atonal wankery, some is ambient with electronics and tape samples, some is straight up renaissance or baroque period pastiche, some is a hybrid of all of the above.
Its the age of individualism - everyone has their own style.
Aaron Ross
>Its the age of individualism - everyone has their own style.
It's also the age or narcissism - no one gives a fuck.
Ethan Barnes
examples?
Mason Taylor
Jayden Garcia
Ethan Barnes
Michael Gordon is a pretty good composer and he is active.
Eli Ward
johnathanarce.bandcamp.com
Take a look at this and tell me if you think its good modern classical music. The harmonies are more modern, but there is a strong classical foundation. But it also does dabble in avant-garde topics such as using exterior noises.
Michael Perry
I love Avro part he bring classical music back to its roots but in exciting way!
William Collins
thanks for all the recommendations anons!
Michael Butler
If its not originally written in a score, its not classical music.
Dylan Wood
well i disagree. And one of the pieces does have a score (Heartbeat) The rest were improtus. I believe classical music doesn't have to be written in a score. Most of the music bach wrote used improvisation techniques such as figured bass that allowed players to make up their own music. Improvisation has strong roots in classical music and a score doesn't make something classical or not.
Luke Garcia
Most of the modern music which could be called "classical" is made for movies. To back this point, John Williams is considered the most famous modern composer.
Noah Morris
Ludovico Einaudi
Thor Harris (his Thor and Friends album is American Minimalism)
Max Richter
Lawrence English
Benjamin Rodriguez
I'm confused, so ambient is now classical?
Oliver Turner
ambient music began with classical music thanks to people like Erik Satie pleb
Grayson Gray
should have paid attention to your theory lessons, m8
Evan Butler
There is no "age of narcissism." It's a timeless human bane.
Dominic Long
It was discouraged by social control mechanisms that were more or less successfully internalized by individuals, whereas now it's blatantly promoted by mass media non-stop.
Don't let that hinder your self-justification, though.
Ian Sanchez
Please elaborate on said "social control" mechanisms. Today's media is more of a platform that indirectly exacerbates narcissism rather than to promotes it
Josiah Sanders
Yes OP. They're called Movie OST.
Samuel Barnes
I try and write things...
Aiden Reyes
La Buranella by Niccolo Castiglioni
Carson Carter
>50s and 60s
>not modern classical
are you stupid
Jordan Green
>Most of the music Bach wrote used improvisation techniques such as figured bass that allowed players to make up their own music
Improvisation has always been part of a composers arsenal - they use it to generate ideas. Then they write the actual piece with the ideas - putting in the hard work to create a coherent piece from the raw ideas.
Figured bass is more of a shorthand for harmony rather than an encouragement to improvise. Sure, you could improvise, but it wasn't designed that way - it just lets you know which chord you should play when only given a bass note.
The definition of classical is that it is primarily stored in a written score. That's what sets it apart from popular music that is primarily stored in a recording, or traditional music that is stored in the collective memory of a people.
There is more to the definition - it has to be in the classical tradition, intended for the concert hall and have a focus on form and invite detailed deconstruction.
More detailed definitions here, don't take my word for all of this:
en.wikipedia.org
Brody Scott
>concerto for tenor sax drum kit and orchestra
Jesus - I really like some of Psathas work but that sounds fucked...lemme guess...the piece is just a million notes
Kayden Jackson
>classical music took a while to recover from the avante-garde shit of the 50s and 60s.
Are you saying that there shouldn't have been an attempt at innovation at all? Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Webern, Partch - are they all not revered to this day?
Jack Evans
yes much and good and very much
Grisey - Vortex Temporum
youtube.com
Asher Sanchez
Anything that uses an orchestra and classical voice is western art music. Even stuff like Steve Reich is thrown into that category.
Jaxon Carter
do you not know what fucking google is or something?
Cooper Cook
Why are we here talking about anything if we could just google it all?
Jacob Thompson
>classical music took a while to recover from the avante-garde shit of the 50s and 60s.
>50s and 60s
Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Webern
>Stravinsky, using techniques developed in 1921 in the 50's and 60's
>Schoenberg died 1951
>Webern died 1951
What do these people have to do with the avant garde of the 50's and 60's?
Blake Foster
Webern died in 1945, and his mindset was the same of the avant-gardists of the '50s and '60s, bar from teh Darmstadt school.
You're correct on Stravinsky and Schoenberg, they're idealization of music is still extremely close to the one of the Western tradition. For Schoenberg the most important thing about a note is still it's pitch, which would have been seen as a sign of superficiality (if not even stupidity) by the avant-gardists of the '50s. Still, Webern is fully contemporary.
Owen Bailey
Their techniques and principles were user in decades to come? And what exactly is so horrible about classical music in the 50's and 60's? No one bothered to actually expand on that.
Nicholas Parker
The definition of classical is that it is primarily stored in a written score
No it isn't. Can you name any scholars that have this as a primary element of definition for what is and is not classical music? Are you saying that the improvisatory duels that were common in Europe between classical composers was somehow not classical music just because they weren't ever written done even though they follow every single normal practice of classical music?
>There is more to the definition - it has to be in the classical tradition, intended for the concert hall and have a focus on form and invite detailed deconstruction.
> it has to be in the classical tradition
>classical music is defined as that which is within the classical tradition
Who would have thought.
>intended for the concert hall
I guess The Well-Tempered Clavier isn't classical music then.
>and invite detailed deconstruction
I guess that's Steve Reich gone.
Even your source for the information (which is only a Wikipedia article) doesn't even back you up. You say that part of the definition of classical music is that it is notated. This is what the article actually says.
" In Western practice, art music is considered primarily a written musical tradition,[10] preserved in some form of music notation rather than being transmitted orally, by rote, or in recordings, as popular and traditional music usually are."
Primarily a written musical tradition doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. The very article you link to even talks about the difficulty in defining these things.
Landon Murphy
>Still, Webern is fully contemporary.
>died 1945
>when we are talking about composers of the 50's and 60's
You could have said he was a near contemporary but to call him a full contemporary is a lie.
He was also writing music in a system that was invented over 20 years before his death. He has nothing on Stockhausen or Cage. Had he continued to compose in the same idiom as when he died he would not have been at the forefront of the musical avant garde.
>Their techniques and principles were user in decades to come?
And the techniques of Bach have been in use for over 200 years now, that doesn't make them avant garde. Stravinsky and Schoenberg were not avant garde figures anymore during the 50's and 60's. Just because you were avant garde once doesn't mean you always will be. Just look at Strauss.
That was my first post in the thread. I have never said music from the 50's and 60's is bad.
Blake Anderson
>He was also writing music in a system that was invented over 20 years before his death.
This is beyond the point, for it was the approach that was important in Webern: in his music there is no trace of ANY of the implied logics and mechanisms of Western tradition. It was a full break from both classical and modern tradition.
The avant-gards of the '50s and '60s were modeled around his new forms of organizations and his new approach.
>He has nothing on Stockhausen or Cage.
No one prior to Cage has anything of Cage, who is by the way still a niche in contemporary academia.
Everything that is related to organization in Stockhausen is directly extracted by Webern's music. The technological approach is obviously something else, but to deny these influences is laughable.
>Had he continued to compose in the same idiom as when he died he would not have been at the forefront of the musical avant garde.
Webern treatment of form would have been considered avant-garde for decades after his death. His limitations, which was due to the times he was living in, would be in terms of sonic approach. The grasp of concepts such as timbre and duration in Webern are still somewhat superficial, but we should also not forget that the more sophisticated istances of these concepts were directly derived from Webern's work.
To say that Webern is not contemporary is like saying that Haydn is still baroque music because he used counterpoint.
Adrian Baker
Its actually great. Somewhere between traditional greek music, a romantic-era concerto and a late night squawk-fest at a smoky underground jazz club.
Even has a drum solo!
This is my favorite version as you can see what's going on:
youtube.com
Psathas has to be one of my favorite contemporary composers, and this piece the best sax concerto ever written imo.
Ryan Sanders
>Who would have thought.
You seem dense enough I have to spell these things out
>I guess The Well-Tempered Clavier isn't classical music then.
"Intended for the concert hall" is just one of the facets that could make up classical music. Who says WTC wasn't intended to be performed?
>I guess that's Steve Reich gone.
I guess you should actually look at a Steve Reich score instead of assuming all he does is repeat things. He uses very subtle dynamic changes and phasing is his big 'thing' - his scores do invite detailed deconstruction if you know what to look for (It appears you don't)
Primarily a written tradition means it is primarily written down. Not sure what other meaning you can get from this.
Feel free to provide other examples of what makes classical classical, if you think I'm so incorrect.
Isaiah Kelly
Anything in the 20th century is "modern". Anything after that, as of now, is "contemporary". It's not hard guys.
James Martinez
Actually yeah it's pretty good - Psyzygysm is another cool concerto by him.
Carson Richardson
The tags ''modern'' and ''contemporary'' are linked to the musical outlook, rather than mere cronology. There many ''contemporary'' composer who compose in a perfectly modern, if not romantic style. Calling them ''contemporary composers'' is just being pedantic.
The ''modern'' tag will probably stick, the ''contemporary'' one has to be replaced with another term, for it will become immediatly nonsensical as soon as we'll find another way of thinking about music. I guess the nomenclature will refer to the term ''avant gard'', for there is really no use for it nowadays, since now all academic music has to be avant gardistic in nature. It made sense when academia was about modulations and counterpoint, but now it's merely a synonym.
Owen Gomez
I've always hated the term classical music. Its a really dumb way to organize music. Originally "classical music" meant the music from Bach to Beethoven yet now its grown to encompass people like Reich and Webern that have nothing to do with each other. Its a shitty way to really organize music and it promotes this type of musical elitism. I think we should just call it music and if we want to specify we use the genre sch as minimalism impressionism contemporary, modern,post modern ect.
Regarding the many points made:
Classical music is written: Well technically any and all music can be written down and that would instantly make any work that was transcribed into "classical".
It is music intended for concert halls: Well then Chopin preludes and all his piano solo works are not classical music cuz they were intended for private home events.
It has to be in the classical tradition: So composers that used techniques meant to break the classical tradition such as Prokofiev Webern Debussy Bartok Schoenberg Shostakovitch etc are not classical composers?
The label classical music is confusing and i understand that when you say classical music a certain stereotypical picture comes up and thats what we base it off of. But it also creates of picture of non-accessible music. That you need to have certain knowledge to listen and enjoy it. Like i said again we should just call it music and put the genre accordingly because maybe more people will be inclined to listen to it without worry of some pretentious person telling them they aren't smart enough for it
Julian Moore
the only people who ever cared about classical music were the people studying it or pretentious aristocrats
regular people had their own music
Blake Parker
>Originally "classical music" meant the music from Bach to Beethoven
that's "common practice" music.
Classical period is Beethoven, Haydn and Mozart's period. 1750 to ~1820
If you don't like the term "classical" you can use "art music" instead.
Aiden Sanchez
Modern should really be modernism but it gets shortened for ease which causes problems. Shostakovitch was mostly late romantic despite working after many of the modernists.