Minimum wage should be raised

Can we all agree that the minimum wage should be raised? Even Trump thinks so.

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>no straw
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Yes but not fucking 15 an hour that's crazy as fuck

>Wearing a body warmer inside

Is McDonalds cheeping out on their heating bill as well?

It should be raised, but not to the point that it destroys jobs.

>McDonalds suit

No, employers should pay employees what they are worth.

>Even Trump thinks so
Trump says that minimum wage should be left up to the states to decide, though he agrees that 7.25 an hour is hard to get by on in most places.

no it should be abolished.

Minimum wage? What's that? The little bottom limit for monthly pay, not being enough to support family, lower than welfare?

Why raising minimum wage, when you can just raise welfare?

You realise Norway doesn't have a minimum wage and we're fine? The problem is the lack of unions who could negotiate better wages, even grocery store clerks have unions here in Norway.

Heck yeah it should that way McDonald's and other fast food places will be replaced by machines and I won't have to deal with those incompetent minimum wage workers that do nothing but mess up my orders

what's funny about this is that all these bernie sanders minions imagine a meeting where some fat jew businessman is taking advantage of poor people and paying them less than they deserve, and the hero government man comes in says stop that, pay them what they deserve! and the jew says oh well i guess i better do as the good man says

in reality what happens is hundreds of thousands of people are either replaced with machines, they lose their job or their job just seizes to exist because the company goes bankrupt overnight and it becomes illegal to hire someone, even if they themselves are willing to work for less than the minimum wage

a reminder to the retarded norwegian that's probably not old enough to vote, we don't have a minimum wage in norway, and we don't need one. if someone offers you less than 15 dollars an hour 99% of people in norway would just say yeah nah would rather just not work

Why change laws then? If you need it you can just found a consumer union, collectively go to fast food, then claim, that your order was messed up by worker, don't pay and dont take the order.

You realise unions were largely responsible for the imposition of wage floors, right user?
They also led the charge for hourly wage rates rather than productivity wage rates. The fact that they're not quite as buttfuck retarded in sovereign wealth fund land doesn't mean they're sane anywhere else

Minimum wage needs to fuck right off, as do hourly wage rates. They're not as harmful to low wage workers as wage compression but they're damn close

He literally says on 12:25 that he wants to see it increase....

youtube.com/watch?v=qe6NcB5eNGY

Like I'm gonna do all that over a cheeseburger. Just let them be replaced by machines. It's not like anyone who works minimum wage is useful in society anyway

>Can we all agree that the minimum wage should be raised?

No we can't you stupid asshole.

It prices people with lower marginal productivity than what the minimum wage is out of the job market, gives an incentive to work under the table and the hiring illegals over native workers, increases prices, saws the bottom rungs off the income ladder, restructures the economy towards unnecessary automation, and the higher you raise it the worse all of these problems become.

Price. Controls. Do. Not. Work.

Trump is right. It should be a state decision. $15 in California means a hell of a lot less than $15 in Alabama. By extension, it also has a bigger impact on all involved.

You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members?
The fact that your unions created wage floors and hourly rates just means your workforce is retarded. I only work part time due to studying but I have a productivity based salary and people will always prefer that method of earning money because it reflects the hard work they put in. This in return means hourly paid jobs need to raise the salaries to actually get someone working for them.

Don't blame unions for the shit system the workforce in your country wanted.

I remember this interview, with the reporter doing his level best to put words into the Don's mouth.

He says he would like to see an increase,
BUT
he would
RATHER
leave it to the states
Nobody is going to say that they wouldn't want to see people make more money, but when it comes down to policy and pushing actual political decisions, he is for the states making that decision.

Is $15 a lot of money in the US?

>unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members
lol no. unions work with government to corner the market and in many cases your forced to join a union

>quads confirm it
oh shit waddup

Raised to meet living costs of the city. Different per city.

Did you watch the video?

>You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members?

And that was true before we had this man named Franklin Roosevelt come along and gift us with the NLRB, which gives politically connected unions tremendous power and the capacity to force membership into unions whether the employees want to or not.

Do you know what the word "rather" means in that context? Can you google it and get back with me on the definition before we continue?

I'm not really concerned since I'm rich as fuck.
I have a Ferrari.

How about instead of raising minimum wage we find ways to lower the cost of living. So this way even basic jobs can support someone and we wouldn't outsource/automate so many things.

Any price floor destroys jobs user.
The minimum wage as an idea was designed from the ground up as a means to destroy lowskilled labor jobs that were predominantly held by lower class blacks to force them out of the market so much more expensive Union labor wouldn't have to compete.>You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members
You realise that if you work in a union field that the majority of States force you by law to join said union or you can't work in that field right?
Unions are just superpacs for the Democratic party who's members cannot choose to be in without completely changing their feild of work and have zero say on what the Union does.

It is even worse for public Unions

increasing salaries in a verge of a crisis is not a good idea. it will increase inflation.

Holy shit, just read up on NLRB. So basically the president and the senate gets to choose who controls the unions? That seriously fucked up
Why is it even needed and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?

everyone on miniuuim wage is on welfare n way, gotta raise one.

Enabling states to raise the minimum wage? Basically a green light? He said he wants to see it go up.

>MFW I was talking to a coworker yesterday and she also thinks it screws people making just above $15 and probably results in inflated prices for everything
>MFW she's also Jewish

>Why is it even needed
Because leftism and the slow progression towards Socialism. It serves as a means to allow government to control more of the nation's economy. What do you think progressivism stands for in America?
> and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?
The government

Minimum wage won't be as much of an issue when there arw a surplus of jobs. Pretty sad so many people have grown accustomed to minimum wage slavery that they don't strive beyond it.

nope

>"The states will decide what the minimum wage will be"
>"Oh so he's enabling states to raise it yes!"
Might want to google the word "egocentric" while you're at it, Norway. I'm done biting now.

The minimum wage should be abolished and Trump can go fuck himself.

This

>Why is it even needed and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?

It's "needed" by the Democratic party, as they and the unions have a symbiotic membership. The Democrats force everyone to join the union, and in turn the union will donate hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to Democratic candidates with the money they collect from their mandatory "union dues".

Unions in the united states are essentially an extension of the Democratic party, and they usually fuck over their members (read: serfs) hard.

>Basically a green light?
No because Constitutionally the Federal government has no authority to impose a minimum wage but the States do independently and depending on their own individual Constitutions.

Not that the Federal government cares about what power it is legally appointed

Friendly reminder

First off, raising the minimum wage is a stopgap measure that temporarily helps poor people.

His idea of getting companies to manufacture in America again will not only create lower paying jobs for the average American but it will also create jobs for professionals.

If there are more stable jobs for people to have then the wealth of the average person goes up.
With more wealth comes more buying power and
more buying power means more demand
which means increased supply
which means cheaper goods in the long run.

Unions and the Democratic party(in major cities NYC Chicago Detroit Philly Baltimore Etc) is just an extension of the Mafia as well

He literally said in the video that he wants to raise the minimum wage.

Let those poor fast-food and walmart employees make $15 an hour.

Should increase to $8.50

That's more than enough. $15 is too much

By itself not really but it's insane to give $15/hr to someone flipping burgers. The current minimum wage is $7.25, $15 is over double increase

>wage is a stopgap measure that temporarily helps poor people.
Not really
It very short and narrow terms helps the poor people who don't lose their jobs/aren't able to enter the work force thanks to this price floor.
On a net basis even short term harms the poor.
Saying that is like looking at a small yellow speck on a yuge blue wall through a high powered magnifying glass and saying the wall is yellow

Only if cost of living is mandatorily increased. Why be a cop or firefighter if fast food workers who are bad at their jobs are being paid only a dollar or two less?

>$15/hr
I would work for $15 a day.

>tfw im a recepcionist.
>useless college degree + spanish, english and french
>mfw im a minimum wage slave.

Kids, dont follow your dreams, just be engineers.

Sure.

But it's a token move.

Our minimum wage in Australia is higher.

And we pay fucking tons more for everything except food (I don't know why food is so expensive in America).

But that doesn't even matter since like 8/10's of our paycheck go towards housing.

No because if it's raised then I'll be making minimum wage and I'll be dammed if I make the same as some high school burger flipper. This is simply matter of pride.

>It's time for a little bump
If you actually account for purchasing power the minimum wage hasn't been much different than its relative purchasing power since the mid 60s.
When you see numbers from say the huffpo claiming "it would be like 20$ if it had kept up with inflation".
Well no that isn't true because this number that they used to determine this was cherrypicked from one year where there was an abnormal spike in purchasing power leading to the minimum wage of that one year being a few dollars more than what it was years before and ever since.

They're going to be replaced by machines minimum wage or not.

Just like unions are irrelevant when discussing manufacturing as no American can compete with offshore labor prices.

That's just life.

I don't know what to tell people who rely on those jobs...It's just the way the labor market has changed.

I should add
The purchasing power of the current min wage is more than what it was in the early 90s during a period of great economic growth.

The only people who work for below minimum wage here are illegal immigrants and workers, and the businesses don't do it to stay afloat, they do it to make an absolute killing.

Are you saying the rent is too damn high?

I work minimum wage at mcdonalds and i dont want a higher minimum wage. Its hard enough to find entry level jobs that your parents didnt help you into as it is. Plus anyone who thinks working at mcdonalds is hard is a fucking retard.

Hillary has the best approach: moderate raise pre-announced, then a staged series of hikes over time. You have to boil the frog and allow small business to adapt.

I would also add in the carrot of lowering the corporate tax rate on smaller businesses in order to pay for this.

The more people making more than poverty wages, the less need for dem programz. We can roll these programs back to the same degree we are lowering the small business tax rate, ending small business welfare and getting government out of the way.

6% more or less of the work force works on minimum wage. I don't understand why the wage of 6% of the workers is so important to liberals. Most people don't spend very long in those shitty jobs anyway.

>they do it to make an absolute killing.
Fun fact
In California the times they actually cracked down on illegals in agriculture deporting them and making sure farmers didn't hire new ones these farmers(and farmers are multimillionaires in this country) left their crops in the feild to rot because it would have resulted in less of a financial loss than hiring expensive American labor.

Most of the people who use illegal labor do so because their margins are so thin that the jobs the illegals are doing wouldn't be able to exist if the labor cost were higer.

Not to defend them, but why is their cost of production outside paying Rogelio so high?

This is a largely pointless discussion.

The only way to raise wages on unskilled labor is to limit the labor pool.

This is a truth no one on the left seems to be able to accept.

The arguments on the right are equally as stupid;

>Muh Automation
>Muh Scientific Management
>Muh Offshoring

All of these will occur regardless of wage increases or decreases. A business will always seek to be more efficient and profitable, and automation, taylorism and knowledge transfer will always occur. If you're society is at a point where you can compete with third world labor costs, you've lost.

If they want higher wages, they need to decrease the labor surplus.

The first step would be limiting unskilled migration.

None of them want to do this, and thus, none of them will ever see a meaningful wage raise. Any mandated wage raise by the government without a control on the labor surplus will just result in other areas of the government or economy subsidizing these increases via inflation.

Am I wrong?

youtube.com/watch?v=AXDR6YX801g

That guy actually has a good understanding of why the NYC rent is to damn high which is mostly centered around government rent control laws


rentistoodamnhigh.org/issues.html?m

kek.

Rent is actually not THAT high in relation to property prices.

Because the government here subsidizes property investment.

If you tenant's rent doesn't cover your mortgage payments, the government covers the gap. So that keeps rent down a TINY BIT to ensure never-empty investment properties.

>it's too hard to get entry level jobs
>the costs of goods and services is too high for poor people to afford
>better raise the minimum wage

Imagine a world where there was no minimum wage so people could compete to get entry level work. Imagine also that this means prices go down. Poor people now able to pay one another for their work and goods rather than being priced out from the start.

Yeah, sounds horrible. Minimum wage shills are ignorant or elitists or both.

As an aside, a leftist would want them to pay more taxes over bumping the min wage, it's where you want all of your money to go anyway.

Raising min wage will not affect much as the artificial prices of your whole economy will just rise with it. your talking about a majority and the economy will simply react to that.

You need to focus on what is too expensive not on helping, say, the property industry keep their prices high while getting maccyD's to foot the bill. This just makes you more of a bitch to them as if you lose your job you are even MORE fucked.

Ultimately you want the community (town/state/nation) to own its own environment/economy.

Most of the people using illegals here are large corporations making insane profits by decreasing their labor costs.

Our agricultural sector is heavily policed.

And our food is cheaper than in the U.S.

Those businesses shouldn't exist, and should be left to rot. If they are only capable of existing by breaking the law, then they aren't really a profitable business to begin with.

Because of the mentality of "I'm to good for this work"
I'm completely serious.
Some illegals actually make more than minimum wage but entitled Americans won't do these jobs period without extremely high wages that cannot actually be paid out

That also just sounds like they are using illegal to shear some extra profits from otherwise unprofitable businesses. They don't really seem to be of any value since they don't provide any value to Americans.

I guess the businesses that service illegals were probably unhappy though.

>it's too hard to get entry level jobs
>the costs of goods and services is too high for poor people to afford

We have a high minimum wage and none of those things apply here.

Here illegals take low paying jobs because it's too risky to hire Australians and risk discovery of your operation.

They mostly take jobs regular Australians would work or still work just in different more heavily monitored companies.

Fuck no.

Bernie Sanders's entire campaign exemplifies why. Since he's failing miserably, and pays the people who work for him $12 an hour, he decided to fire most of his staff to concentrate on California. A big idiot.

Also, it devalues the careers of actual educated folk who have jobs that not many people can do.

>And our food is cheaper than in the U.S.
Your food is also much more heavily subsidized
> If they are only capable of existing by breaking the law, then they aren't really a profitable business to begin with.
This is why big businesses are pushing for the minimum wage because their small business competition will be forced out of the market.

No and this is I will never vote dem.

Look at these two posts and try again.

SPBP

>That also just sounds like they are using illegal to shear some extra profits from otherwise unprofitable businesses
No

Minimum wage was never meant for lazy faggots. It was meant for high-schoolers and college students. But illegal immigrants, inflation, and lazy faggots fucked that up. Standards will surely lower in the US if the minimum wage increases.

It called not buying iphones and air Jordan's for your 7 kids from 4 different baby mamas

We need a true quality wage increase, where the money we already receive is worth more. Not some artificial inflationary wage increase. You can raise the minimum wage to whatever the fuck you want to, any arbitrary number, but if the money isn't worth anything, and cost of living just rises to match the faux wage increase then what was the point? Just because the number is bigger doesn't always mean you are actually making more money.

Stupid lefties don't understand economics and want unemployment to be raised. I thought more of Sup Forums

crackas dont understand thiugh i gotta give muh tithes to dah church tho shieeeet

You are retarded, minimum wage is meant to imply the minimum livable wage you faggot, it's only more recently that it has become worth shit all, a few decades ago, someone could work minimum wage and actually support themselves. There are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case anymore, but just saying "Lazy faggots and immigrants" is fucking autistic.

Our food isn't heavily subsidized. The opposite actually. Much less subsidized then the U.S.

But that actually goes to this guys point - Australian farmers are often criticized for selling to large multi-national corporations (the Chinese being a particularly favored target of populist politicians).

But the fact is that only these large corporations, by virtue of owning large lots of multiple farms, can withstand the extremely tight margins on production, which individually owned private farmers can't. Sort of like the Corner Store vs. The Supermarket Chain.

>Small businesses/illegal

Partially true. The most frequent culprits are businesses that contract to large corporations (cleaning) or franchise owners (7/11, Dominoes etc). But large businesses here are stringently opposed to minimum wage laws too.

You say no, but then you also admit the businesses aren't profitable without illegal labor and that the owners are millionaires. It doesn't add up.

>is meant to imply the minimum livable wage you faggot
See
Minimum wage was thought of in America for the same reason it was later adopted in apartheid South Africa

Which is only going to be achieved by doing this This is true going back hundreds of years.

It's what brought Britain out of serfdom.

yep

if people struggle to find ends meet then crime rises

>but then you also admit the businesses aren't profitable without illegal labor and that the owners are millionaires
"Illegal labor"
X party(employee) want to work for a wage that y party(employer) is able to pay.
Party z (government) then tells x and y that "no you can't do that because reasons"
> and that the owners are millionaires.
The vast majority of a farmers wealth is in hard assets such as land and tractors.
Their profits tend to be extremely thin.
> It doesn't add up.
Yes it very easily adds up if you actually take the time to look at the numbers which is why farmers throughout California litteraly left perfectly good crops to rot in the ground instead of paying much higer wages to harvest them because the money simply wasn't there

>m-muh minimum wage jobs will be destroyed by automation if you raise the minimum wage.


Those jobs will be automated wether you have to pay 7.25 a hour or 15 a hour or even 1 dollar a hour. Because buying a Ipad to take orders will be much cheaper then paying wages, wether it's just cents a hour

it amounts to $29000 a year, which is a pretty comfy salary for a young single male

I already make almost this much doing warehouse work.

>But large businesses here are stringently opposed to minimum wage laws too.

To provide more information on this; John Howard (who ruled for 16 years) actually lost the election on this point.

His government wanted to introduce a system allowing employers to negotiate individual contracts with employees. He even tried the last minute compromise of allowing it to only pertain to small business, but it was too late and people wouldn't stand for it.

Yea, except for fast food workers. Those guys are fucking dumb

If the profit is there without having to import illegal labor, than it really wasn't there.

This is like Chinese farmers claiming that to be profitable they need to cut milk with rat poison. If you can't run it at a profit without breaking the law, then it isn't really a profitable business.

We aren't talking about minor corner cutting either. You're literally talking about importing foreign, unregistered illegal aliens to operate the business.

This is just undercutting business that operate legally and is the only reason your unprofitable enterprise exists.

Just like a Chinese grocer selling illegally imported cigarettes and avoiding tax.

I should add the caveat;

We do it without illegal labor in Australia.

And as I said, the result has been private farmers unable to sustain themselves on margins this thin - which has resulted in large amounts of agricultural land falling under the control of other nations (Germany, Switzerland, Korea and China).

Your alternative sees the agricultural land and operations remaining in the U.S., but your land being occupied by illegal immigrants.

I guess you have to decide what is more important.

(many ask why Australian companies don't fulfill these roles - but many of these foreign corporations can sustain lower margins because they own and operate agricultural operations globally, not just in Australia, allowing for even lower margins).