If the Nazis hadn't killed him would he have gone on to become one of the greats?
James Wood
I like Les Savauges and you can't call me a pleb because it was a hit among literal patricians in those days.
Lucas Nguyen
Reminder to listen to Bartok
Anybody read this book? It's pretty interesting, Bartok makes use of the golden section a lot in his intervals and the structure of the piece, and his tonal theory is cool. I don't pretend to understand it all, it's pretty high level compositional stuff and I'm not a composer, but it's a nice insight into the complexity of his methods
Carter James
why arent you studying all seven volumes of the treatise on rythm, color and ornithology right now?
Janacek's super good too but they're not mutually exclusive you fucking mongoloid alien
Dylan Gutierrez
What do I study if I want to be a composer
I know really basic music theory, can (slowly and laboriously) read notation for bass and treble clef, and I've been going through some Berklee book for voice leading chords and some other harmonic stuff...legit don't know where to go from here
Jayden Jones
Just noticed the mega file in the OP for composition books, I'm retarded. Have a bump and some Bach instead. youtube.com/watch?v=zO8i5D2uz84
Nolan Adams
Can someone tell me what I am allowed to do in terms of harmonizing a tone row? I'm sort of just getting into composing as a hobby and I thought an interesting exercise would be to write something in 12-tone while having it sound more or less consonant. But now I don't know what to do next because the melodic line is using all the notes.
Is there atonal/dissonant/avant garde stuff that doesn't sound "depressing"? Or is it the entire POINT that I'm supposed to disassociate "dissonance" and "depressing," in my mind, so that I can hear it as something new?
I feel like that's the point, right? Like, the fact that I go "oh, this sounds depressing" is a product of my brain being trained to associate "happiness" with "traditional tonal resolution."
Or am I half-right, half-wrong, here? I really like the idea of "sound poems," I want to follow a Stravinsky score like the bustling streets of Moscow, or imagine bucolic processions when I listen to Mahler, I want atonal music to open new vistas and forms of imagery in my mind, but I so often hear it as just BLEAK DEPRESSING SAD BLEHHHHH
tldr: Does anyone have any good examples of atonal/similar music that is something other than "bleak" sounding? Doesn't have to be HAPPY, either. Or do I just need to further retrain my pleb ears?
Try Alban Berg's Chamber Concerto or Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht
Charles Wood
he's referencing a famous sci fi book called "rendezvous with rama"
Kayden James
>Verklarte Nacht >atonal u wot
Jordan Johnson
See, it must just be me, because Berg's concerto is making me picture a gangly rapist with one leg awkwardly longer than the other, stalking a woman in the park. And the Krenek is making me picture shit falling onto the floor and breaking.
Dominic Hughes
I figured he needed to ease himself into atonality from romanticism.
Hudson Sanders
Facco youtube.com/watch?v=Bg0Q0wbo-Uc One thing Facco didn't get right is how sometimes the soloist becomes more continuo than the continuo. It's kind of anticlimactic.
havent really made a list but mostly rosbaud, mitropoulos, scherchen, kondrashin, early klemperer. and some individual stuff by mengelberg, bour, maderna (and that keilberth das lied). any conductor to my ears that doesnt waste time.
theres still a lot i dislike about some of the works but mostly positive feelings now
Owen Morris
>Listen to Mahler's 5th >this is the most physically offensive music I have ever heard >Listen to Mahler's 1st >wtf I'm enjoying this >okay just the 1st that's it >Listen to Mahler's 4th >Damn this aint bad either >WTF NOW I LIKE MAHLER'S 7th
I now support the idea of an autonomous Jewish state!
Jose Peterson
I haven't really explored too much of the Bour stuff just yet, but I generally like him as a conductor. It's a bit of a shame that the far superior performance of Maderna's 5th (the Philadelphia one) is in such scrappy sound.
Evan Ward
>k l e m p e r e r
Anthony Diaz
It's a bit of both. Yes you have been trained to hear dissonance as ugly or depressing. At the same time, tonality does sound so grandly beautiful because of the human structure and how it perceives the overtone series etc. Some of Bernstein's lectures (especially the first iirc) touch on this in great depth. So you have to approach atonal music with that in mind. It is purposefully diverting what is innately beautiful but that by no means makes it all ugly.
I agree that Debussy is beautiful and unconventionally tonal, Bartok I would say is in the same realm of unconventionality, but still accessible. His string quartets are haunting. youtube.com/watch?v=8petL3nJYB4
To break further from tonality, Schnittke wrote a choir concerto. Much of his music is incredibly atonal and is indeed bleak as you would describe it. However this choir concerto is one of the most gorgeous pieces I've ever heard. The fourth movement is the most tonal, with some acceptably dissonant moments, and the rest are a little more out there. Perhaps you'll find that it (mainly in the preceding 3 movements) goes between moments of pretty tonality and depressing, grating atonality, but maybe hearing the two all in one can help bridge the gap for you and prove them to not be exclusive. youtube.com/watch?v=ykuF8h7sFwI
And now Schoenberg. I will not convince you that 12-tone is innately happy or rewarding like tonal music. However there is a different beauty to it that can be found with a different approach. This septet is playful and light. It is nicknamed the "dance suite" so listen not to the "bleak" dissonances but instead to the way it moves. There's a flow to it that hopefully you will find fits the criteria "not necessarily happy but not depressing" youtube.com/watch?v=lxlw40Cqd30
Enjoy and let me know your thoughts
Zachary Richardson
>Yes you have been trained to hear dissonance as ugly or depressing Thanks, horror movies
David Bennett
(12) looks closest in other reproductions of this bach-diagram
you'll want to learn to read fast in both treble and bass clefs. alto clef is a meme
find pozzoli books and berkowitz solfege books and study them for sight reading
for composition, learn your circle of fifths, study the major and (the 3) minor scales (natural minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor) and the chords that form on each scale degree (I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim for major and i, ii dim, III, iv, v, VI, VII for natural minor, so forth)
read about the tonal relationship of first chord with fifth and basically about tension and release
study bach chorales and SATB harmony, every classical work up to the modern period is basically based on 4 voice harmony and voice leading
after that i guess you could study the modes and other stuffs like forms
you'll need a lot of books, there should be some courses online that should guide you into these topics
good luck user
Dominic Fisher
12 tone stuff will never sound consonant if you don't establish a cycle of tension-release
Well there I just found four note chords that sounded consonant together and arpeggiated them into melodic cells that I strung together. That would seem fairly orthodox. I'm just wondering what the full extent of what is allowed to be done with the other voices.
Andrew Bell
Noooooo stahp id!
Xavier Edwards
its not so bad, and i quite like rosbaud and mitropoulos too in the 5th anyway.
Andrew Fisher
If you're serious, go to university or college. Study music, major in composition. You will study harmony, counterpoint, form, music history, orchestration and a few others, as well as contemporary techniques.
Carter Green
Not that guy but what if its just a hobby?
Jaxon Long
oh... you posted the one i immediately thought of... i've always had a secret fantasy to make a movie about wagner and king ludwig of bavaria ii
Mason Rogers
today i missed a great piano gig with a korean pianist. she was going to play some bach, debussy and schubert. i arrived on time and tickets were already sold out. any classical pieces for this feel?
Jose Perez
That depends, did you want to give her the D?
Cameron Watson
midi files transformed into scores with score software. not all of them are 100% good, but most are pretty ok.
Austin Morris
5 days in September, 24 preludes for a fugue, Amadeus, Immortal Beloved, The unreal world of Alfred Schnittke, Mahler
Tous le Matins du Monde. The ending always destroys me.
Levi Sanchez
>you will never hear Chopin improvise on his favorite Pleyel piano >you will never witness the piano battle between Liszt and Thalberg >you will never hear the music of a young Mendelssohn and be astounded at his virtuosity
Colton Foster
>you will never witness the piano battle between Liszt and Thalberg i was there, thalberg totally destroyed that dude
Matthew Martinez
>you will never witness the piano battle between Liszt and Thalberg i was there, thalberg totally destroyed that dude
Thalberg said something like if he had one tenth the talent of Liszt he would be a very skilled pianist
Wyatt Phillips
he was a modest dude
Dylan Jenkins
>Yes you have been trained to hear dissonance as ugly or depressing but thats wrong and an ugly, jewish lie.
dissonance is biologically, structurally, evolutively displeasing. thats a fact, and no amount "look at these new brave 52 genders" will change that.
you need to acknowledge things for what they are, and that is, that atonal/contemporary music is extremely niche, its cultural nonsense championed by elitist faggots that need to feel special about them eating glass shards and grinning back in pretended enjoyment. its all posture, and no one should feel out of it or unspecial or dumb because these posturers invented a way to alienate people even more.
composers writing unplayable stupidity explained by the sole fact that they never ever held a violin in their hands is proof on itself about the quality of these "composers".
Michael Carter
Atonal "music" is so damn awful. I can't believe this was mainstream a few decades ago. No wonder why contemporary classical music died.
