"hip-hop is carrying the torch of viscera and rebellion that rock used to and given up on"

>"hip-hop is carrying the torch of viscera and rebellion that rock used to and given up on"

Is he right Sup Forums?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=z4brqp2Y0Fc
digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/07/most-popular-music-genres-america/
youtube.com/watch?v=DZeu29nOwjw
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

fuck off melon

well rock music sucks now so yes

No because black metal exists.

>questioning the best teeth in the fucking game
plebs

he has a point, extension is going in a similar direction as rock in the 90s

damn he unironically uses the word normie

>implying any music being made today is good

>le best teeth in game maymay
You must be 18 or older to post here

No, go take some fucking rogaine.

Rock was actual rebellion against a social order that was deemed unfair whereas rap and hip hop would collapse without suburban middle class white kids.

There is nothing to rebel against anymore, the values that they want upheld are already institutionalized by now. Neo Nazis are literally closer to counterculture

Not as long as metal is a thing. The people playing 2-minute of blast beats with some fat fuck growling over it is always going to be more rebellious than anything in Hip Hop or rap just because of how inaccessible it is to about 80-90% of the population. Hip Hop is way too accesible (even at its more extreme) to ever be considered rebellious by anyone who isn't racist.

Show me the last time an hip hop album was rebellious enough to make a 20 minutes long song.

Metal hasn't had fresh developments happen to it in years, nor is it accessible enough to truly be an anthem for rebellion for the people, nor has it ever been counterculture (not part of the culture either though.)

Metal just doesn't have that kind of cultural influence since it's about booze, dragon, and satan.

This incredible album from 2016 might change your mind.


youtube.com/watch?v=z4brqp2Y0Fc

Nigga we have had psychedelic sounding Black Metal since goddamn 2001 maybe even earlier.

What are the rap artists of today rebelling against exactly? Gone are the days of Public Enemy and militant hip-hop. Much like punk rock, hip-hop has devolved into a hugely profitable, spiritually bankrupt entertainment industry that celebrates its own excesses and hedonism.

how has it not been counterculture?

idk this still sounds like a pretty unique album to me. and it's also really fucking good

>Rock was actual rebellion against a social order that was deemed unfair
Nostalgia talking

this

Being the "Cool kid in school that claims to be a huge rebel" isn't actually being rebellious.

The real rebels are the nerds who dare to do unpopular things and break social norms

Hip hip is one of the most successful, commercial, and marketed forms of "music" in modern history easily consumed by both the masses and mass media; not to mention exploited. Absolute tripe.

That's just an indictment of the taste and intelligence of modern people.

>nor is it accessible enough to truly be an anthem for rebellion

This is some paradoxical stuff right here. If it's accesible to be recognize by the mainstream then it's not genuinely rebellious. You can't have crossover appeal with Taylor Swiff and Kanye fans and consider yourself truly rebellious. Authentic rebellion is off-putting and an acquired taste. It's true that Metal has gone stale, but it's still completely off-putting the majority of people.

Music was more rebellious back in the 60s, 70s etc because the western population was much younger due to the baby boom. Now, collapsing birth rates have left us with and older and more restrained populace.

Shut up, nerd.

digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/07/most-popular-music-genres-america/

Rock is still more popular than hip-hop. and this chart is from america, the heart of hip-hop land

you are the worst tripfag

I like him
no bully plz

Metal never straight up railed against culture like punk rock or those antiwar 60s/early 70s guys did. Sure you had like Metallica or Megadeth occasionally talk about war n politics n injustice, but it was never such an overt thing that they actively pushed. This is also not even going into how relatively inaccessible metal as a whole has been which also makes it very tough to be a countercultural force because it can't get as many people to its side.
Everything from hip hop traditions to the current government regime to police to unfortunate negative stereotypes related to murder. Not to mention that a lot of things they talk about since the days of Reagan are still there as well though not as bad.
Good record. Very niche though.
But at the same time you can't have a legitimate counterculture if you make your music straight up inaccessible because then there won't be enough people for a counterculture.

>hip-hop
>one of the genres that is mostly used as background music everywhere
>rebellious

Yeah I bet Nickelback fans feel like they can take over the world when they listen to their favorite song by them, yet no one calls them "rebel" because it's actually pretty damn normal. Liking Hip Hop is as rebel as something like being a Nirvana fan in the early 90's.

You mean rock 30 years ago?

Exactly.

Most Hip-Hop is very radio friendly and not rebellious in the slightest.

Death Grips are genuinely rebellious though

>But at the same time you can't have a legitimate counterculture if you make your music straight up inaccessible because then there won't be enough people for a counterculture

Metal has millions upon millions of fans. The rock counterculture you're referring to was just mainstream culture, which is always changing. The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stomes, Jimi Hendrix were all mainstream figures propt by big mainstream labels. Nothing really counter about it. Modern metal has about the same following as punk did during the 80-90s more or less with bands like Fugaz.

>Rock is still more popular than hip-hop
Among people who pay for music

Something can be popular and rebellious at the same time. That's how countercultures and giant waves of rebellion are made, you retard. Are Syrian rebels also not rebels because there's a fuck ton of them in Syria and they are everywhere?

Kanye said it first and everyone laughed at him.

In no way OP was talking about accessibility of the music.

To judge "rock" is kind of idiotic because "rock" doesn't exist anymore. Sometime in the 90s it splintered into like 500 different subgenres and adopted traits from 500 other genres. For a while it hung on as a blanket term for "guitar-based pop music that places an emphasis on live performance" but go look at the top tracks on the billboard rock chart now and what do you see? Shit like Imagine Dragons. 21 Pilots, and Gorillaz. Studio-based music that has more to do with electronic and hip hop music than what I just defined as "rock."

Today "rock" is little more than a marketing term for fragments of pop music that are sold as subversive or boundary pushing or "alternative." It has fragmented twenty times over by now, which is a defining trait of modern media

I think hip hop is just entering this stage so it still has a sense of cohesion and identity. It is exciting to watch it separate, like how it was exciting to watch rock separate in the 90s. But when it collapses (and it's already starting) there will be no distinction between hip hop and rock and electronica. It will all just be pop music and innumerable niches of pop

>Are Syrian rebels also not rebels because there's a fuck ton of them in Syria and they are everywhere?

They're only "rebels" cause that's what the government calls them. They could just as well be referred to as terrorist, seperatist, oppositional forces, etc.

>Metal has millions upon millions of fans.
Which are spread across the world and never organized for anything outside their music.
>The rock counterculture you're referring to was just mainstream culture, which is always changing. The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stomes, Jimi Hendrix were all mainstream figures propt by big mainstream labels. Nothing really counter about it.
This is fucking bullshit considering the sheer amount of anti-govt/anti-war stuff all of those guys (maybe except the Stones) did during that period of time. Again, popularity doesn't implicate not being rebellious.

Fantano's getting laughed at too

They are literally an anti-regime force though. Rebels through and through, but also large in number and mainstream.

He's late to the party.

Hip hop used to be that. It's an entirely commercial genre now that has been juxtaposed from it's origins of authenticity.

Hip hop isn't rebelling against anything. Trap is the new pop. It's a genre that has only gained influence because of the increased commercialization and accessibility to a lower denomination of listeners, which is why sheltered white privileged people like Fantano have taken to it in recent years.

There isn't really a genre right now that captures the struggles of the ordinary person very well, and it definitely isn't hip hop anymore.

>considering the sheer amount of anti-govt/anti-war stuff

Literally means nothing. Sinatra had antiwar stuff. Being against the Vietnam War was literally the prevailing sentiment at the time. LBJ didn't run for reelection because of it. The Democratic National convention was overrun because of it and the election stolen. The county was split in half. It's not really a counterculture. It's like today with the Trump and anti-Trump. You're not countercultre for beig anti-Trump.

back to your AC/DC playlists

There's a bif difference between groups like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, And Jimi Hendrix and groups like Mothers of Invention, Captain Beefheart and the Velvet Underground. The former were very popular, mainstream musicians making music that went along with the popular styles and approach of the time and the latter were groups that although influenced by the former were radically different in their approach, aesthetic and style.

the black power movement is the rebellion pr much. too bad all the music that came from it was awful and the movement itself is retarded

>Rock was actual rebellion against a social order that was deemed unfair
punk rock, and even then itd be anarchist or politicized punk

The hip hop people like Fantano think is "cutting edge and rebellious" is listened to mostly by tech bros and sorority girls where I live.

Arguably the biggest name in hip hop right now, Migos, collaborated with Katy Perry. Is that rebellious?

Hip hop represents hedonism, commercialization, pandering to lowest common denominator of listener, and staying with the bounds of what is popular, which is my most hip hop is centered around abusing drugs, self destructive tendencies, capitalistic propaganda, and political propaganda.

People on the fringes of society who are breaking new ground aren't listening to the same hip hop that Fantano is reviewing. People on the streets listen to local artists who you can only hear on third party websites and through social media in niche internal networks. The culture that hip hop promotes is rapidly becoming obsolete.

>I think shitty music is actually good

>Literally means nothing.
Wrong everywhere. Sinatra had antiwar stuff, but it's the same example as the one I gave of Metallica where it didn't mean anything. The anti-Vietnam stuff was NOT the prevailing sentiment until years into the war. Till the end of 67 you still had a whopping 48% that agreed with the war.

>The county was split in half.
You mean like Syria is split into many pieces of large factions? Like fuck dude I gave the Syrian rebels example for this reason exactly.

>It's like today with the Trump and anti-Trump. Republican majority within political structure.

maybe rage against the machine will get back together now that chris cornell is never going to reunite audioslave

back to listening to meme rappers off of youtube

Yes, but the former rallied people for causes that were countercultural at the time, the latter had nowhere near that kind of cultural effect. It's impossible to have an effective movement of rebellion or counterculture if you aren't popular.

I can name artists that would be considered far more rebellious than stuff like TVU or Beefheart from that time because those guys are nowhere near the most experimental guys, but while those people were musically rebellious, none created giant waves of rebellion and counterculture.

Of half the country is either for or against something it's jot really rebellion as much as it's opposing ideas. It's not rebellious to disagree with the government unless it's marginal. Example, it's not rebllious to say that Marijuana ahould be legal. That's a highky supported position even if maybe not the majority position. However, it's very rebellious to say that heroin should be legal; this is a fringe position that the overwhelming majority are against.

Those movement occured entirely without them. They just propogated them and rode them. The beatles were making doodlely love songs by the time the war was well on it's way. The sentiment grew without them and eventually caught up to them.

of he means niggers dressing in drag and singing in autotune then yes

>Hip hop represents hedonism, commercialization, pandering to lowest common denominator of listener, and staying with the bounds of what is popular, which is my most hip hop is centered around abusing drugs, self destructive tendencies, capitalistic propaganda, and political propaganda.

Come on, all the "rebellious" shit of rock goes around the "drugs, sex and rock and roll" motto.

You rock-tards need to remember that all the big rock acts of the past were as hedonistic as hip hop is today, but, of course, in a time where society weren't as open.

That's what killed rock, and that's what's killing hip hop. It went commercial and got popular, which is exactly what's happening to hip hop.

Hip hop is for white people who want to seem hard but haven't struggled a day in their life. It's just glorified party music now.

>Of half the country is either for or against something it's jot really rebellion as much as it's opposing ideas.
It is when all sorts of protests and movements rise up from it. The "alt right" can be considered this to an extent as well.
>It's not rebellious to disagree with the government unless it's marginal.
This statement makes no sense. Might wanna look up what marginal means.
>Example, it's not rebllious to say that Marijuana ahould be legal.
It still is in most places since the establishment still has harsh punishments for it. But not as rebellious as it once used to be.
>That's a highky supported position even if maybe not the majority position.
Again, you aren't getting it. Things that are highly supported can be rebellious. Anything from US gaining independence from UK to Syrian rebels fighting off Asad's regime and ISIS to the Boxer rebellion.

More like dip-hop, because everyone that listens to it is a dipshit

He's right, but it's not exactly a damning conclusion to come to...

The summer of love along with other moments in 1967 were literally when war sentiments started going downwards with I think the first majority of people being antiwar happening around that time based on polls. Anyone that isn't Scaruffi will admit to how influential Sgt. Peppers was around this time.

>long song = good song

nice meme

go back to listening to Swans nerd

>Jazz at 2%
Last time I checked, it wasn't even at 1%
Is it coming back boys???

It's hilarious how hip hop went from the most authentic and woke genre to the corniest and fakest shit.

I blame white people.

youtube.com/watch?v=DZeu29nOwjw

You know that hip hop has had long tracks before, right? Rapper's Delight is 14 minutes long for example.

white power is the only true counterculture of our age

>from the most authentic and woke genre
They were over-exaggeration as far back as those NWA days, my man. Most of those west coast guys used to over-exaggerate. For what it's worth we have "real" guys these days. Shmurda is still in jail for his murder. Mane just got out. Kevin Gates is finally getting mainstream praise after being out of jail long enough to finally release a real LP. Kendrick's anything but fake, too for someone that wasn't directly involved with such stuff.

WE

>Crime = real
You are the problem.

Hip hop in its origin was good because it represented overcoming an overwhelmingly hostile environment through their own force of will. I could give a fuck about how much you fucked your life up over stupid shit. That doesn't make anyone cool, and it nobody outside of high school thinks that shit is cool.

You k

>to the corniest and fakest shit
we wuz comic book characters n shieeet

>rock
>rebellion

Hey dad I'm growing my hair long and singing about the devil I'm so a rebel

You think that there weren't rock groups in it for the money using rebellion just as an image and that weren't supported by suburban middle class white kids? You don't think that there are hip hop artists today that rap about legitimate issues that many people are facing?
Your post could use a little bit more nuance.

hip hop is pop culture entertainment, not music (with exceptions). it's not visceral or rebellious, it's audio reality tv and the most corporate/establishment genre out there

I agree that rock is mostly dead, but there's much better electronic music than hip hop

>Hip hop in its origin was good because it represented overcoming an overwhelmingly hostile environment through their own force of will.
So...like Kendrick Lamar? Killer Mike? El-P? Danny Brown? Lil Ugly Mane? Are you fucking kidding me, dude? Not to mention that the most popular shit back then wasn't even the people that did this, but those that took a cinematic overthetop take on the stuff like NWA, Tupac, Snoop, etc.

>whereas rap and hip hop would collapse without suburban middle class white kids.
The fuck do you think people in the ghettos listen to? Free jazz? NSBM?

>the values that they want upheld are already institutionalized by now
That's why the values themselves have changed. It's how progressive thinking goes.

Kek this is worse than saying "Social networks are carrying the torch of viscera and rebellion that TV used to and given up on"

It's the same shit in different color made to cater to as much people possible, just because people think that meaningless garbage that "potrays real life just liek it is" is the same as actually making a controversial statement doesn't mean something is rebellious. Funny how most of the time music that doesn't even have anything to do with issues of [the current year] is the one that changes a generation the most, since, this may come as shocking, most people listen to music for escapism. Most self proclaimed political or conscious artists are garbage anyway.

>Most self proclaimed political or conscious artists are garbage anyway.
some notable exceptions:
simon & garfunkel
bob dylan
neil young

Hip hop as an artistic and cultural vehicle is dying.

Hip hop as a commercial enterprise is thriving.

None of you can convince me otherwise.

>Social networks are carrying the torch of viscera and rebellion that TV used to and given up on
tv was never seen as a rebellious viceral outlet, always as a means of escapism and entertainment. I get your point but you could make the argument that rap and rock are rebellious

is trap music hip hops hair metal?

>rap and hip hop would collapse without suburban middle class white kids.
this

>The fuck do you think people in the ghettos listen to? Free jazz? NSBM?

>people in ghettos pay for music
just stop lying, user. you know that is not true

You tell me.

>rap and hip hop would collapse without suburban middle class white kids

Unironically this. Most concerts like Kendrick and 'Trappers' are filled with guilt-ridden young White adults and the West-coast scene only thrives due to bored White suburban teenagers buying their albums to listen and experience the narrative of a 'gangbanger'.

By far, Blacks should thank us Whites for bringing their shitty culture into the mainstream, economic-wise is important but I guess it is racist to tell these.

>people in the ghettos pay for music
Nobody pays for music these days.

White people ruined hip hop.

what will be hip hop's grunge?

would hip hop have lasted as long as it has without white people

>Jews ruined hip hop

Fixed it for you.

That's like asking if the native americans would still be alive without white people

>muh strawman

Wrong

>if the native americans would still be alive without white people
not the same thing because WITHOUT whites, natives would still be here. But in the case of hip hop if not for whites, it wouldn't have survived for so long.

It's the same thing. Without whites native americans wouldn't be an alcoholic gambling addicted mess of a minority.

>Without whites native americans wouldn't be an alcoholic gambling addicted mess of a minority
alright so whites ruin everything? nice moving goalposts btw since you wrote in the original strawman that they would be ALIVE if not for whites and now you're saying they're alcoholics because of whites.

Now back to my original point, would hip hop have survived so long if not for whites. I dont think so personally

You really think everyone on the planet would stop listening to a genre just because white people stopped partying to it?

People still listen to disco. People still listen to tibetan throat singing.

Being on the radio =/= alive

normie white suburban teens do

this

lol, what an awful analogy

samefag