Am I the only person who thinks BVS is an underrated masterpiece...

Am I the only person who thinks BVS is an underrated masterpiece? This movie was simultaneously a sequel and a stand alone movie while being a prequel too. It continues the story from MOS while developing Batman/Bruce Wayne in an entirely new way that hasn't been tried on-screen before, New characters were presented for the first time on-screen in a major motion picture in doomsday and wonder woman, not to mention it was a prequel to a stand alone wonder woman movie. This movie delivered. It's a masterpiece.

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trash movie

Yes you are.

How is it trash? That's too generalized. Be specific.

Post this on /co. They'll be more open to a discussion about it.

You have terrible taste.

not even sure if this is bait or pasta, but whatever:

>shit character development
It doesn't work at all as a stand-alone because the rift between the two characters is entirely dependent on Man of Steel (and they work out their deep-seeded differences with a one-line arc that was so bad it became a meme the day the movie was released). Half of the time the movies characters' personality/motivation relies on the audience's general knowledge of the IPs being used and the other half of the time the movie completely ignores history to try to build something new. As this movie shows, it doesn't fucking working when every main character has dual personalities and each of those personalities are being built from two completely different styles. And on top of that fucking Wonder Woman shoehorned into the movie out of fucking nowhere.

Cont.

I don't feel it was a masterpiece but I feel it was no where near as terrible as the mass of people who bashed it. I honestly think it got a bad rap for two reasons.
1. Superman movies are some sort of meme, because people who've created nothing like to bash the creations of others?
2. Ben Afleck was Batman. People hated it from the announcement. Dark Knight fans wanting Bale in the movie.
Suicide Squad was pretty bad, tho.
The villain was witch. A witch? Come the fuck on.

I kinda think people really focused in too much on the shit aspects of it than they should have. Lex Luthor was trash and Jesse Eisenberg was trash in the role. Yes the "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?" was executed terribly and was a terrible way to end the fight between Batman and Superman. But everyone focused in way too much on that and drinking piss.

If everyone were not so busy laughing at the absurdity of Batman letting Superman live because their moms had the same name they would see that that is a moment of realization for Batman that this individual he demonized had humanity and human connections within him and that he had turned into the very monster he feared Superman was in his efforts to off him. Which in itself is an interesting why to cap off Batman's evolution through the show. He begins as someone who has lost such faith in people that he brutally murders criminals. He is a Batman broken by his time wearing the cowl. He is the fulfillment of Harvey Dent's warning in "The Dark Knight" of living long enough to become the villain. Bruce has been doing this for years and has seen friends die. It takes the revelation of Superman's humanity to break him from this path.

But then he goes to the warehouse and kills at least four motherfuckers getting to Martha. So...I guess he still has some rebuilding to do. It was a seriously flawed movie OP. I see where you are coming from but it could have been so much better. It wouldn't even be that hard to pull off. Calling it a masterpiece just shows you have never seen one.

>tl;dr
>waaahh it's not the avengers
>waaahh it's not transformers

I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but I liked the first 3/4 of the movie. Luthor sucked and I have no idea why they even bothered with Doomsday. I thought Afleck was great as Batman, thought the fight with Superman was pretty good, too. Would've been great if they'd just picked one storyline and stuck with it.

I saw it on an airplane, it was an entertaining way to pass 2 hours. If I'd paid money to get popcorn & drinks + tickets for me and my kids, I'd probably feel differently.

How should it have been?
Please give examples of masterpieces so that others can reference and evolve and prove you're not just ending your statement to sound deep, brooding and on a higher plane of perception.

>editing
Fucking TERRIBLE. None of the credited editor's work has ever been considered good editing. Why would you hire a guy for for such a huge, highly-stylized blockbuster whose 25-year resume has never risen above mediocrity? But it can't all be his fault. No fucking way does such a random scene (WW looking at the "justice league" files, clearly meant as an after credit-toe scene) get shoved into the middle of the movie unless a shit ton of decision makers have no concept of editing. And that's just one example.

cont.

>executed terribly
I honestly think it was the best scene in the movie.

While the story isn't deep by any stretch, it's a lot more layered than any of the Marvel superhero movies that've come so far.

Watch this scene:

youtube.com/watch?v=zJfIg8fXM-w

Batman has been planning the death of Superman for two years (all as a part of Luthor's plan btw). He's factored in every event and possible outcome to the point where Superman was never ever going to win. Bats had won before the fight had even started.

And it all comes crashing down around Bats the moment Supes says "Martha". You even see the double-take at around 34s in the youtube link I posted.

BvS is a great movie. I genuinely think so. I really don't understand why people hated it so much.

What editing work do you have to your credit?

The movie made no sense on any level. Where the cities were, why Batman is pissed and how superman couldn't destroy Batman instantly. Stupid and gay.

Just a heaping load of shit to shovel over to Asia and make about a billion.

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Ok then answer this. Why did supes have to kryptonite spear dd and kill himself? Why not give it to ww who is strong enough to use it also but with no side effects?

And then at around 1:40 when Lois says "it's his mother's name" is the exact moment when Bats realizes that Supes isn't some 1% enemy alien, but an actual person and B has been wrong all along.

Fucking love that movie.

Because it would've taken far too long to save Lois THEN give Wondy the spear. Besides, he didn't understand who she was. All he understood that is that she was strong at that point.

If doomsday iced superman he would have squashed wonder woman. Superman has to die because it had never been done before on screen and it was very much what I wanted and expected to see. Superman has to be killed. There just was no way around that.

The story explains why he is pissed and it's his normal personality to always be pissed. What it failed to explain is what pushed bats into becoming a stone cold killer.

Did you actually watch the movie? There doesn't need to be a half hour exposition detailing it. There's a LOT of scenes that just show things; no talking needed.

>story
The production was so blatantly desperate to find something that would work. TWO (three) heroes (who were all antagonists and/or protagonists at one point or another); TWO villains (one of those villains being two of his own villains, also ditto on pro/antagonist); a love interest who is also the everyman AND the voice of reason AND the damsel in distress. Every scene included a culture clash, class clash, AND generational clash.
At the end of the movie nothing is gained or lost. The villain that started dead is dead again, the hero that started alive then died is really still alive, etc, etc.
Holy fuck, they just threw everything on the page/screen in the hopes that something would stick.

I'm also in the minority when it comes to Lex. I like the Eisenberg take on the troubled genius. The campy 70's version of an old man real estate (?!) mogul would've been garbage.

Yeah I watched the movie plenty of times. A half hour exposition of what exactly? Of why he's pissed? Of why he dislikes superman? Even the scenes just showing things still helped the movie and at no point was I like "what the fuck is going on?"

>What editing work do you have to your credit?
Several years of professional (salary, expected to produce work at, or above industry standard on a daily/weekly basis) video journalism. Helped on some friends' amateur projects for shits and giggles. Worked mostly with Avid at the time, fuck Avid.

Lex was the shit in this movie. Eisenberg did great but may have had too much screen time.

Go back to sleep then kiddo.


It fits the time of a .com/technology geek genius.

Look I'm not saying it was perfection. I'm saying for it's undertaking, for what it dared to achieve, this movie was a masterpiece.

What didn't you get about the movie that needs some explaination for you? If disbelief can be suspended for any other movie, why doesn't this movie get the same fair shake?

cont.

>color palette
Grim & Dark can be a color palette; Bright & Light can be a color palette; Colorful & Loud can be a color palette; Quirky & Contrasting can be a color palette; and so on....
But you can not try to combine them all into one movie and have it look like a passable color palette. It ends ups looking like a Taco Bell taco that was stepped on by a boot (or like BvS).

dared to achieve? this movie is just cool looking but in the end the story is pretty shit, lex luthor is hilariously bad and doomsday is fucking awful

Wrong post yo. I'm the one arguing that the exposition was enough without lengthy monologues.

I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but it's not bad. The critics tore it apart for no reason.

That's like, your opinion.

Those two movies are absolute shit

It's not Marvel/It's the in thing to bash DC.

Shit movie. Editing was horrible. Superman barely got any character development and you fucking kill him on his second movie

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just watch the dark knight returns to realize how good this movie could have been but ended up being just entretaining at most, i actually like the movie because it does some things right like the action scenes and batfleck but the story is still pretty shit

>for what it dared to achieve
Trying to climb every mountain simultaneously doesn't make someone look like an obsessive overachiever, it makes them look like either a clown or a dumbass.

The movie was definitely going for an overall serious tone, which rules out clown, so...

The story is good, but they could've made two movies out it easier.

Not op but can you tell me the 1 liiner meme

The whole Martha thing. I thought it was perfect.

Less DKR and more All Star Superman next time. Hopefully Snyder will keep away from Superman from now on. Dude raped him.

The ending clearly showed the grave dirt rising the same way the rocks did when superman "rose" for his first flight. Having him actually die (or at least not tease his "resurrection") would have been much more impactful.

MoS was the best Superman movie to date. Brandon Routh got a raw deal. He was good, script was shit. Reeves a tubby over actor.

Love the Parademons dream sequence.

lol the story is not good. superman was a retard/pussy for most of the movie wonder woman was there for some reason, jessie e. is a terrible lex luthor (could have been a good riddler) lex is supposed to be serious not a awkward, they killed superman out of nowhere and at the same time shitting in one of the most iconic superman villians pretty much snyder took a big shit in the source material and just made a michael bay style movie

If everyone is bitching now just guess how much bitching would have been done if they did a kill Bill vol 1 & 2 kind of thing.

Like I said. Flesh it out into two movies.

>BVS

They would've bitched, no matter what. The Dark Knight Rises is a lot better than people give it credit for. Hardy was a perfect Bane.

It would have been perfect in a movie that wasn't trying to take itself so seriously.
It was like an alcoholic giving sage health food tips while in the middle of a bender. That shit is out of place and nobody is in the mood to listen anyway.

Well technically he was lex Luther son not lex Luther

>your opinion

Yeah I love him as bane and dkr was good too

It gave them a common goal. Bruce had a chance to save Martha for once. Are you really this dense?

It was a mirror-image of the transition from old world mythology to the superhero myth that we know and love today. It plays heavily on the Arthurian legend. Batman plays the dynamic of King Arthur (an honorbound member of the elite who assembles all the best heroes in the land, JL = Knights of the Round Table), while Superman is a hybrid Arthur/Lancelot (The undisputed best hero in the land, begins at odds with Batman/Arthur). Lex Luthor is the Morgan Le Fay allegory (Power hungry to the point of madness, creates Supe's horrid abomination child Doomsday/Mordred) while Lois Lane is a merger of Guinevere and the Lady of the Lake (why do you think she was in a bathtub, or swimming to try and emerge the spear from the water?)

When Bruce and his parents leave the theater, they're coming out of seeing Excalibur. When Supes and Doomsday clash at the end, it mirrors the same embrace of steel that Arthur and Mordred have in that film.

This is filmmaking 101, people. I'm sorry it didn't have enough bright colors and empty witticisms for your liking, but don't go calling it a bad movie just because your attention-deficit ass completely glossed over it to begin with.

Prove me wrong then ann

I like the nuttiness and the heavy implication that he was abused coupled with his unchecked genius.

you just have shit taste mate, it happens if you enjoy the movie go for it but dont go around saying is a good movie there are tons of youtube videos going in depth why this movie is awful

>Doomsday, supermans ultimate rival
>created on a planet far away with the ability of regeneration
>dies thousands of times on that planet fighting countless creatures until it's grown so powerful that it is the only thing left alive
>travels the cosmos seeking stronger foes, it's only goal complete destruction

Actually no, it's some big spooky monster made from zods DNA or whatever, fuck it. Also lex luthor created him because everybody knows who that is kind of. You know, the huge, buff, bald, intimidating business tycoon? Actually fuck that it's Jewsse eisenberg doing a lol random xD joker impression whatever, pay 25 dollars to see it in 3d faggots.

Dude, that's awesome. I did not catch it. Srs bzns

Batman v Superman has some serious flaws but overall I loved it. For me, it did what it set out to do better than Civil War.

I too love Eisenberg as Lex. It was a very different choice but they nailed the pathos of the character and the core concepts of his hatred for Superman.

>YouTube videos

kek

For what it's worth, whatever hack at WB that decided the theatrical cut was good needs to be launched out of a fucking cannon and into the sun.

I actually think Snyder's done an incredible job with his literary allusions and what not. It's a bit to go into but there's also a lot of connections between Man of Steel and Plato's Republic. What hurt both films was Goyer's involvement in the script. He's not a terrible idea guy but he's a shit writer.

I felt like it showed his little man syndrome to the letter. Superman shows up and he's no longer the biggest thing in town.

Nobody was ever arguing the impact the event would have on the character. The issue has always been, even discussed in comments you're referencing, with how the dialogue, delivery, and overall story was handled.
>Are you really this dense?

So...just check with the experts on youtube, right?

Like I keep saying, I think the Martha bit was on point. Both men have hella mommy issues and Martha has always been there like low hanging fruit.

Would you like it better if they discussed Martha over covefe?

I'd rather eat pussy. youtu.be/SaxFyrw5JhM

Weird. I happen to be watching this movies and it's at this scene atm. The action scenes are great. Especially Batmans fights. The movie is cool if you watch the extended version in 4 sittings and tell yourself it's a hbo mini series.

"Martha" echoes of 'mother'.
The graffiti in that scene is often hard to follow, but there's a whole lot of 'J's that flutter across the pillars up until the "Martha" moment. The next article of graffiti seen boasts a big capital 'M'. This is Snyder trying to get across that up until that moment, Batman was still gripped by the damage the Joker had done. And it took realizing that even this alien had a mother to snap him out of it. The film utilizes its visuals to help tell the story, the same way a comic book would.

Just blew up the Capitol where I'm at.

I've never paid too much attention to the graffiti. Nice subtlty
Just saw the bit where he ninja drops the guard at LexCorp. Niiiiice...

This is what they WANTED to accomplish. This is not what really happened. Instead of seamlessly combining a (somewhat) well-known myth with fresh characters they buttfucked a very well known, sensible mythos with Excalibur.
Which brings me back to my earlier post
stop trying to jam more character traits on top of characters that have already been honed over 70-something consecutive years. Just make a new fucking IP or wipe their established personalities clean on day one of preproduction, you can't have both and make it work.

Agreed. The theatrical cut fundamentally doesn't work as a film. There are too many gaps in the narrative and unexplained leaps and motivations that it's quite horrible. It also feels quite longer than the Director's Cut because of it strangely enough.

In the comics, Luthor's hate for Superman comes from him being this god/savior type alien who comes to Earth to save people. Luthor believes that for it to mean anything humanity must save itself. He believes that Superman's existence is a detriment to the progress of humanity, because why save ourselves when Superman can do it.

The movie goes a different route but still gets at the core of the character. His father's abuse led to a seething hatred of God, because if God was all good and all powerful then wouldn't he have saved him from his father? Despite the controversy around Superman he was hailed by many as a messianic/god-like figure which Lex can't help but despise. The idea that Superman is some savior who will save everyone is something Lex just doesn't believe can exist. It's completely against his core beliefs and it's turned into obsession. His plan was to drive a Man into battle against a God. If Man kills God then he's not all powerful, if God kills the man he's not all good. He wants to destroy the idea of Superman. I think it's an incredibly well written motivation that stays true to the comics, even if Luthor's personality is different.

I like the movie and man of steel a lot. They arent perfect but they are fun to watch.

I liked wonder woman in bvs and was a little excited to see her stand alone movie. Saw her movie and thought it was shit. Action scenes were OK, everything else was shit. Was playing on my phone most of the time and left before it ended as soon as she stopped the bad guy at the end.

Anyone else see wonder woman and think it was shit?

>Are you really this dense?

I don't think it's a masterpiece, but I'd give it an easy 8/10. I throughly enjoyed it.

I just realized that Lex's time in the Kryptonian ship is what ultimately drove him over the final edge.

I'm with you dude! It is an absolute masterpiece. Gold spun to celluloid

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OP here. I also think MOS is phenomenal. My problem with it (and I admit there are as few) was that it wasn't as violent as I wanted it to be. I loved the chaos and destruction, but the lack of human death disappointed me. Zod should have been literally ripping hearts out of men's chest and squeezing peoples heads until they popped like zits. MOS was violent but the lack of blood and visible loss of life wasn't on par with the destruction taking place. Synder greatly toned down the violence in BVS just to placate the whinners. I was disappointed in the lack of violence in BVS.

Remember Logan and Deadpool hadn't happened yet. Bet the Dark Knight movie gets either a hard PG13 or R. It's time to show The Bat cracking skulls a whole movie long like in the warehouse fight sequence.

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His time in the Kryptonian ship DID leave him with greater knowledge of things to come and that Darkseid is out there. What drives Luthor over the edge is his desperation to cling to and hold together his personal beliefs. Up until the end of the movie Superman rebuts Luthor's belief that God can't be all good and all powerful and in a final act of desperation he creates Doomsday to kill him to prove he's right. A nice tie to that is Luthor mentioned how if God was both he'd have stopped his father's fist. When he creates Doomsday it strikes at him and Superman is there to stop it. Ultimately Superman may not have been all powerful (if he died, how could he be?) but he did at least prove himself to be all good.

>I was disappointed in the lack of violence in BVS
Superman broke Zod's neck in the previous movie and comic nerds had a shit-fit online, which was probably a huge factor.

The screaming fit at the end "he's coming!" was perfect. He's crazy, but right. Bats don't care, he's here to lol at his dumb ass.

I'm not into deadpool. I haven't seen Logan or wonder woman or avengers 2. I like marvel and dc but marvel is disney and disney is for kids. DC is more adult oriented.Until disney is ready to show a bit of blood I can wait. I do want to see Spider-Man for the first time since Raimi.

Yes I know. The fight wasn't long enough or violent enough.

Deadpool and Logan are afuckingmazing. I'm not a DC or Marvel only fanboi, I like movies from both.

>buttfucked a very well known, sensible mythos

This is why fanboys are never satisfied. You guys can't give a straight answer on what proportions of creative liberty you're willing to handle.
They made Lex Luthor interesting (for once) and you condemn Eisenberg for it.
They made Superman reckless, and made Batman a (murderous) hypocrite, and instead of examining their flaws, you call the writing flawed for not making them flawless.

Now, to the points worth conceding.

Lois didn't need to be in this movie. At all.
The shot of floating dirt specks was a real cop-out.
The Flashpoint scene was overindulgent, and really interrupts the tone set by the parademon dream sequence.

I'm a fanboi of both. It's just DC is darker. I don't think justice league will be dark enough now that synder is gone. A lot of the violence will probably disappear to and I don't like that.

It's still Snyder's film. Whedon is only handling some reshoots and additional scenes. Snyder brought Whedon in to write some additional scenes for the film, and because they worked closely together on them he felt Whedon was the only person who would be able to film them how he wanted

OP again. Also let's be honest: superman would kill Batman in a heartbeat. It's a ridiculous notion that Batman could beat superman period, or somehow manage to have his boot on the man of steel's symbol of hope, possibly about to drive a poison spear through his skull...