M-muh roads

>m-muh roads

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>private utilities
>AKA privitized utilities after using public funds to build all the infrastructure

Who are the people that expect to profit from road construction?

So then it's just taxation without the word taxation.

whoever owns the property and charges a tax/toll to pay for maintenance

Those guys with the STOP/GO signs.

It's never going to happen libertardians.
Embrace the fash, it's the best way

so the state?

If you own a big chunk of land and want to rent it out to businesses and turn a huge profit, it will sell for much more if good road lead through it. And businesses already pay more for better locations. This is the sensable way to do it. There's no need to make everyone pay for a business to make a profit.

Privately owned roads aren't a thing in your country?

>who will deliver the mail
the fucking mail lady that is not directly payed by the govt but by her boss you dumb fuck

if the federal govt dies state takes over as it should

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Wouldn't work:
>live out in middle of nowhere
>got a shop on land you claim is yours
>need road to get customers to come, otherwise they don't know if you exist
>can't leave shop to get customers because theft
>can't afford private security yet
>fucked if bandits find your shop, but at least someone other than you has found it
Better make that shop closer to where there are roads.

It's more efficient to make the government build the roads than having a toll booth every 300 meters.

That doesn't make any fucking sense

Enforce regulations within a market doesn't make the state a participant in that market

Perhaps you Ayn Rand teenagers could look up the interstate highway system and why it was built.

>"The free market will fix it!"
No, it won't. Learn American history before you post your infantile babby's-first-politics garbage.

except if you don't use the roads you don't have to pay

the justice system

>government
>efficient
besides with modern technology you don't need toll "booths"

libertarians don't believe in a non state, but a free state

businesses that want to get people to and from their business

How the fuck are they going to know if you use the roads or not?

Roads can be built the same way fences are.

thats the final argument from this debate, you won't get an answer from him unless he says something retarded like putting an electrified gate every 10 meters everywhere.

We have toll booths and transponders. I get charged two bucks if I use the road, nothing if I don't.

man idk maybe with some sort of patrol or something.

Best argument against Libertarianism is the necessity of an armed forces.

Still modern automatic toll collectors make you lose speed and create jams for those who want to pay with cash.

>toll booths
how the fuck are you gonna make toll booths for the whole downtown area?

Are you saying that in this scenario you own a shop in the middle of a desert that no roads lead to and no people are aware exist, but you also have a bandit problem?

That sounds ridiculous no matter who builds the roads.

Toll booths in my state are non existent, to use toll roads your vehicle has a transponder that is scanned and bills your account. If you don't have a transponder it takes a pic of your license plate and they mail you the bill.

same shit from the urban area that are not suburbs?

Nice, every argument covered except for the only important one: why is being tolled on a road any different from a tax?

How is the broken window fallacy attributed to Krugman?

I don't get this argument because in Canada the government can't even build roads, so I don't know what we lose in a libertarian system

the guy who made this comic hasn't heard of Ontario's 407
>government builds highway to alleviate stress from other roads
>sells it to private company
>401 is now the statistically the busiest road in North America and is literally falling apart because everyone is too fucking cheap to take the 407

How is the land yours when there is no government to enforce your claim?

Enjoy getting claim-jumped by a PMC.

But that's a fucking waste of space for the road.
Just have people chip in for all the roads to be improved, it's easier and doesn't fuck with everything, like taxes.

> Implying that the government doesn't prevent them from building the utilities themselves.

There are already cameras on every fucking traffic light to catch people that run red lights. Just replace them with transponders.
So what you're saying is that the road not falling apart is the one that isn't run by the government?

People should chip in and help their fellow man, they just shouldn't be legally required to.

>doesn't make the state a participant in that market

Don't ever wew me or my wife's lad ever again.

>they just shouldn't be legally required to.
Where did I say it should be enforced?

Yes which is funny as shit since the whole point of the 407 was to keep down construction costs for the 401.

I mean it worked since they never actually work on the 401

they won't be able to monitor everyone since those red light camera are only meant to spot isolated people that are breaking the law not every single vehicle at rush hour.

It was for moving troops left and right in the case that America was attacked, correct? The veins of America.

How is it a waste of space? They are just beams of steel over the road.

Well it's a good thing there are employees at companies that get paid phat stacks of cash to figure out how to make this shit work. I'm no engineer.

>make every road a toll road
>it now costs $50 to go to the shops because the road owner changes a bunch of times

Get fucked.

>people who expect to profit from them

hahahahahhaha

>Who would build the roads
>A company
And people should just agree how to connect each other in the grand scheme of things?

>"Well if we had flying engines we wouldn't need roads!!!!"

Because now you gotta spend more money having the damn thing being on, and having it collect money for it.
Plus it clutters the road above for which you can build over the road below. Inefficient, just have people who want the road to pay up, have everyone chip in, and if they don't chip in, they don't get on the road. If they get on the road, the others have every right to strip the man of his car and kicking him off the road.

>Just have people chip in for all the roads to be improved, it's easier and doesn't fuck with everything, like taxes.
>Where did I say it should be enforced?

Fair enough, but "just have the people chip in" and the comparison to taxes seemed to imply it. I agree with you that taxes are more efficient/expedient than tolls.

Roads are sold on lease agreements. Ontario's 407 is owned by a spanish company and it costs on average about a 100/month if you use it 5 days a week. People are just too cheap to use it despite the fact that the alternative highways are falling apart and cause accidents from falling debris every year.

>Fair enough, but "just have the people chip in" and the comparison to taxes seemed to imply it.
It means you want it, you pay for it. You chip in, a penny is better than nothing.

or you could just say the entire Japanese mass transit system is privatized

>roads built between economic sites
>everyone else fucked over
>it only makes sense to build yourself a road to your own home if you make bare cash
>the average bumfuck gains nothing
>roads not built
>poor stay poor
>rich stay rich
>the occasional bumfucks get a road on a contract for some businesses' work and will be kicked off their property if they stop working there

Government roads are pretty great. All of you guys are talking about paying multiple dollars every time you want to use a road, toll booth or otherwise. I pay a 1 cent on the dollar tax for gas that pays for almost all of my state's roads and there are literally zero toll roads here. Shit's great.

You're not as smart as the guys who get paid several hundred thousand dollars a year to develop technology for this exact purpose. Shit, who knows what technology will come out in the next few years that makes this even easier?

thats only transit
they still have shittone of publicly-founded roads in urban area.

That's a single road though. OP is suggesting all roads are privatised, which would all but guarantee different owners along a single trip through the suburbs/city, each wanting to recoup their own costs via tolls.

so for the sake of this debate you are admitting that your solution wouldn't work as of now?

got it!

How's Thailand at the moment are you still being ruled temporarily by a military régime or did things settle down for the time being. Just curious?

>$100/mo to use a road
>why won't people use the road
you are an idiot, leaf.

there is a toll here that is super expensive(like 8$ for cars only to pass once), but it have the best road i've seen. not a single hole. meanwhile on all other roads around here drivers have to avoid all the holes and shittier parts, like pic related(green sober and red is drunk)

Modern toll cameras are crazy

>Those cameras can capture clear license-plate images at highway speeds and far faster – up to 180 mph

raytheon.com/news/feature/electronic_tolling.html

I live in a place where the government does jack shit, you know what happens when people start talking about how shit the roads are?
>The government needs to pay for it.
Nobody wants to, or is going to shell out for it.
That's it, the extremely rare times they have they used concrete instead of asphalt.

>everyone else only builds very limited roads for no particular reason
>completely open market for roads to untapped areas
>capitalize on market
>make mad money
>now people can get everywhere

>projecting and being this smug
I'm saying I don't know how different companies would choose to monetize their private roads in this hypothetical scenario, and we shouldn't pretend like we know better than those who do this kind of thing professionally. For example, what this guy posted

keyword: HIGHWAY
I have been talking about urban area the whole fucking thread.

You need a government because modern societies are extremely complex and its not like running your house. The main reason for governments to exist is to control and oversee things, and yes they will hire companies to do the actual work, however running a country is like running a multi-billion dollar company. You need a CEO and a board of members, a management level and so on. If you dont understand this simple thing you probably shouldnt vote and finish kindergarten.

Oh yeah right, everything would work so well without the government!
>people who expect to profit from them
Like fucking who? If people had enough money to pay for all those roads they wouldn't fucking bother and just fly a heli everywhere,
It's fucking retarded to think anything would work without government, look at the 3th world countries that don't have it/have government that doesn't do shit.
The fuck is U.S. Virgin islands?
Also don't worry mate, at least you got trips.

Municipal privately owned roads wouldn't work because of the infrastructure problems that come with so many private companies in a single area.

Highways and border roads could work but it depends on how competent the government is.

In Ontario's case, our provincial government is completely retarded when it comes to road spending. Last year we had huge stretches of razed roads with no signs or anything. I ended up having to get my suspension replaced because it eventually completely fucked up my car.

You know how they hang the stop light over the road to tell you to stop? You could just put a fucking camera right next to it, you fucking retard.

The answer is either
A) the people who want the roads there or
B) The area is so urban that cars aren't needed

It shaves off on average 30 minutes from commute times. You'll save more from gas money by taking the 407 than you will by not taking it.

Fuck you!

>Libertarians want the whole world to be worse than Brazil, with a tiny percentage of territory paved with streets of literal gold while everything else is dirt paths
NO. Fuck you, libertarians. Get out.

>You need a government to run things
Name 5 things that you need a government for, just 5

>he doesn't support the idea of charity and giving your money to help pay for the community to build roads

>Everything will just work out if we give the rich everything and just use profit as the main motive for all existence
Why don't libertarians know that the 1800s was already a thing?

you,re the fuckign retard if you can't understand the fact that cars in urban area are moving much more close to each other rendering the spying much more difficult. A car the is skipping a red light moves by itself thus much more easier to identify

Urban areas are sometimes the whole agglomeration of the city. If people are into an urban area and ride all the way downtown they don't necessarily have to be on the highway.

>Libertarians are dumb because a bunch of these Social Darwinist and Anarcho-Capitalist authors don't meet my arbitrary criteria.

Oh man I sure am blown the fuck out.

If you want a stake or say in society, grow up and pay your taxes. Fuck your high times shit and your "oh nothing technically says I have to pay income tax!". You cant bitch about broken/damaged infrastructure and tell your government to coddle you while trying to avoid taxes.

Man, you people are fucking dumb.

Someone care to explain that pic?

making and upholding laws
diplomacy
fighting wars
liberal democracy
protecting people who cannot protect themselves
border security
police
international treaties
food and other safety standards
having a military which is under the control of law


I could do this all day.

Now imagine any of these are in the hands of a group like yourself. You'd send the military to kill negros because you can and there's nothing to stop you.

And what happens if a negro sends his military to kill you, because there's no one to stop him?

Well then you get something like Somalia.

Where did I say that? Where in the fuck did I say that? Are you against charity, the rich aren't going to help so it must be the middle class/lower class to ask, to demand that they give money to help the community.
>libertarians
lel, I'm not a faggot.

fug u i jus wand do liv in an anargo-gapitalisd society free marget fixs evrything :DD

The same people who profited from laying down railroads.

A good army
A police force
Making laws
Deporting non-citizens
[spoiler] reasonably priced utilities [/spoiler]

>Live in Libertarian land.
>Notice that a wealthy region has a lack of roads.
>Build massive ringroad around wealthy region and charge $500 to use it.
>Wealthy folk can either pay up or stay trapped inside.
Hey guys, I think I just resurrected banditry and the highwayman lifestyle.

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So, do spoiler tags not work on Sup Forums anymore? This is the second time I have typed them correctly and they have not worked.

>building things

why not just

>knock on wealthy guy's door
>hold gun in his face
>demand $500
>he pays
>you hire another guy from the money
>you come back next day

its called the mafia I guess.

Dear god, learn the nuanced need for government intervention in naturalised monopoles

It's a red board, meaning it doesn't work.

An army isn't necessarily the government's responsibility entirely. Israel uses a lot of contract mercenaries from out of the country. Of course, if you actually want to win wars you need a government funded army but for general security purposes, mercenaries can work just fine.

>anymore

I imagine they'd just call the police. Libertarians aren't ancaps.