TFA was shit!

The more I think about Star Wars 7, the more it pisses me off.

It undid literally everything accomplished in the originals.

> There is no longer balance to the force
> The empire has still not been defeated
> There is a new, even better death star so Luke and Lando accomplished nothing longterm
> Leia is not learning to be a Jedi
> Leia and Han are not together
> Han is back to being a somewhat sleazy smuggler
> Luke is still learning to be a Jedi
> The prophecy of the originals was apparently meaningless, because Anakin's redemption apparently accomplished nothing.
> It even undid little things like Luke losing his saber, which was somehow recovered from falling into an abyss

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It's fan service, user. You aren't supposed to think about it.

But there was "balance"
In the prequels when they said anakin was meant to bring balance he did. There were too many Jedis and only two sith. Kills all the Jedi so now there's two Jedi, two sith.
Original trilogy happens blah blah
Then seven happens and there's two sith again (or aspiring to be) kylo and possibly snoke?
And Luke as the Jedi and maybe Mary Sue Rey

you already posted that yesterday and got btfo'd
why keep trying?

By 'balance', do they literally mean equal numbers of jedi and sith?

Jesus Christ, just end it all

is the OT sacred? It's just a visual effects circlejerk with no substance.

I found the acting in the OT to be worse than in the prequels.

I don't think you can say any of them have good acting.

There's always been balance to the force you retard. BALANCE means there's both light AND dark, if everyone was a Jedi there wouldn't be balance

Yes. What else would they have meant.

If you think ''''''balance''''' is equal numbers of jedi and sith, kill yourself.

no they don't, Lucas explained that the dark side is considered a corruption and unbalances the force. The light is the true force, and therefore no sith means that there is balance int he force

Then what is it faggot fucker. Prove me wrong

Harrison ford and Ewan McGregor stood out imo, and Mark hamill had moments, but I agree virtually everyone else wasn't great

No you fucking idiot.
Dark side = unbalance.
No dark side present = balance
The dark side is clearly the balanced force being corrupted

It isn't hard to understand

Dont forget Ian McDiarmid, he was the best part of the whole saga

So if dark side =balance and anakin was supposed to "bring balance to the force" how does killing almost every Jedi and having sith come out on top make that "balanced" unless it's talking about all the way in ep 6 where he kills sidious and sacrifices himself

He was so bad he was awesome.
I have no idea if he's actually a great actor and just jammed it up to 11 for fun, since I haven't seen him in anything else, or is legitimately awful

>everyone being exactly like me means balance
>this is the fascist crap that jeditards actually believe

>It undid literally everything accomplished in the originals

>>There is no longer balance to the force
Prequelshit

>>The empire has still not been defeated
So? It was stupid that they were magically defeated off-screen in RotJ and not in A New Hope. Who gives a shit? The franchise has ironically never been about the actual "Star Wars", it's just a space samurai soap opera. Rebels, Empire, Senate...

>>There is a new, even better death star
Speaking of RotJ...

>>Leia is not learning to be a Jedi
Thank Christ for that. Fucking insufferable character played by an insufferable cunt.

>>Leia and Han are not together
""

>>Han is back to being a somewhat sleazy smuggler
A characters built on one-liners and Western stereotypes has absolutely no character development in a series about VCR noises? Color me fucking surprised.

>>Luke is still learning to be a Jedi
Well, Qui Gon was a Master and his bitch ass died to Darth Plot Device. May as well keep training.

>>The prophecy of the originals
There was no prophecy in the OT you sperg. Prequelshit.

>>It even undid little things like Luke losing his saber, which was somehow recovered from falling into an abyss
There are no less than a thousand ways this could be written off somewhat believably, leaving it up to the viewer was probably better.

"They" tracked the saber's midochlorians, how about that?

Ep. I was shit
Ep. II was shit
Ep. III was shit
Ep. IV was shit
Ep. V was shit
Ep. VI was shit
Ep. VII was shit
Episodes and franchising were a mistake.

So you can have yin without yang??? You really need to readjust your thinking on balance

I said dark side = unbalanced
The prophecy was talking about what happened at the end of Return of the Jedi everything before that is irrelevant., it's supposed to be the end of the sith completely, hence fulfilling the prophecy

Ok that's what I was asking

>Speaking of RotJ...
You mean that half finished thing?

Jesus it took you this long? this is how I felt when the lights went up. They should have just set it 1000 years in the future and possibly maybe have a force ghost or two from the originals and prequels to bring continuity. The farce awakens is a fan film and all future Starwars films always will be,

It's not yin and yang, why do insist on imposing that model on to the force.

Balance doesn't necessarily mean duality

How can you balance something if you have nothing to weigh it against?

I hate how they put in a new BIGGER AND BETTER AND EVILER DEATH STAR!!11 its such a classic capeshit thing to do, the equivelent to having a new bigger and badder boss in the sequel than the film prior to that one, thinking thats what makes a film worth seeing. And how easily they destroyed it just makes it all so pointless and shit. Im still baffled when people defend it

>destroying that death star was pointless

Idiot

>that guy is about to eat all of those babies! plz stop him
>why there will just be another baby eater some day

I say this in every TFA thread and it just repeats itself over and over again

YOU ARE NOT EVEN DISCUSSING THE MOVIE OR ANY FILMMAKING ELEMENTS OF IT, ONLY "MUH PREQUELS MUH OT MUH CANON NON CANON" LIKE IT IS THE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS

ONLY YOU LOREFANBOIS CARE ABOUT THE CORRECTLY PORTRAYED HISTORY OF A PROP LIGHTSABER OR HOW SHOULD HAIR ON CHEWBACCA LOOK LIKE

JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CAPESHIT THREAD, LITERAL PLEB CONTAINMENT

HAVE FUN ARGUING ABOUR WHAT IS THE CORRECT HELMET SIZE OF A STORMTROOPER WHEN ROGUE ONE COMES OUT IN +300 NEVERENDING POSTS THAT ARE BASICALLY THE SAME EVERY SINGLE DAY LOREFAGS

>prequel teenie bobbers actually believr this despite Georgr himself fucking explaining it so painstakingly slow over the last 30 years, any literal retard could figure it out

Balance means both the dark and the light exist...this has been true in virtually every canonical explanation of what the force fucking IS, kiddo

>its not ying and yang
>the Force is literally based on taoist and buddhist concepts
>literally ying and yang

Is Empire your least favorite film? Do you think The Phantom Menace is kino?

You didn't think about it. You are just rehashing already used arguments to get (you)'s

I always thought the force is just the force. And the darkside is a corruption of it. I hate that they added this light side shit. It makes the force another boring ying yang muh balance element that has been done a thousand times before.

George Lucas himself said that the dark side is an unbalancing influence on the force

every starwars thread gets to this point

I look at the light side as simply the force, that's all it is. That's how George Lucas sees it

No, he literally didnt...

Well considering that it was an assembly line movie with little to no identity of its own, it doesn't really have any redeeming qualities to discuss, so we default to how it relates to the storyline.

In the Special Edition VHS introduction to ANH, he said ''Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

I think most of your points are understandable, but there's no reason to think Luke is still "learning to be a Jedi." I think it's more accurate to say he's trying to figure out the best way to proceed given Kylo Ren's betrayal and the complete destruction of his Jedi academy. I think it's a little boring to once again only have a few Jedi/Force users in the story, though. We already had it in the original trilogy.

My biggest issue with Luke is how Kylo Ren's seduction by Snoke makes Luke look either completely unobservant or just stupid, which goes against the sensitivity he's depicted to have in the original trilogy. This goes for Leia too. If they knew that Snoke had his eyes on Kylo from early on, why the fuck didn't they do anything about it? Why would Luke leave his school completely vulnerable to Kylo? There are details we don't have on this yet, but it feels a little clumsy.

Lucas's original point for the story was that the Dark Side is a corruptive influence. Notice in the original trilogy the Force is never really depicted as a Yin/Yang idea. Bringing balance meant to end the corruptive influence of evil Force users.

Of course, this is a little goofy since as long as people are vulnerable in moral dilemmas and as long as Force users exist there will also always be a "Dark Side," but whatever.

He then said that one dark side user and one light side user was what actual balance was. The force is not some christfaggy "light is betterer than dark" bullshit. It is literally ying/yang coexistence

What do you think grey jedis are?

George said his influences for the Jedi were Eastern warrior monks and samurais. Who were buddhist or taoist.

>What do you think grey jedis are?
They are Jedi who aren't in the jedi order but they certainly aren't sith or predominantly dark side users

He took influence from these people. That doesn't mean he based everything on that yin yang bullshit, the man himself explained this. The dark side is an corruption of he force

Yes, and the influence of Eastern philosophy permeates the entire idea of the Force. That doesn't have anything to do with my post, though.

"Bringing balance to the Force" meant destroying the evil corruption in it, nothing more or less. After all, as far as we know at the end of Return of the Jedi the only competent Force sensitive we know to exist is Luke. And his alignment is very much traditionally good. That's not very "balanced" if you go off the idea that balance means an equal number of influence on the Force from both sides.

Pretty much this. There's not really a "light side" of the force, people who fall to the "dark side" are merely those who seek to use the force to carry out their will, while users like the Jedi live solely for the force and carry out its will (like all that peace and love crap).

>grey jedis

What a retarded fucking concept.

I didnt write it.

>STOP HOLDING MY HAND

>I'M A STRONG INDEPENDENT FEMALE CHARACTER

>I'M JUST GOOD AT EVERYTHING

>MARY SUE? YOU FUCKING SEXIST PIG

I liked Finn and fucking hated that annoying Harpy rey

We still doing this? She isnt actually a mary sue. Jesus fuck. Can we have more original things to say here?

Yes. Yes she is.For reasons unexplained she has expert level fighting skills, ace piloting skills, and advance force skills. She has advanced engineering skills that are likely not learned from being a scavenger, such as what would stress a hyperdrive.
Add to this that every established character, Han; Chewy; and Leia, take a quick liking to her. Han even offers her a job on the Falcon she's so awesome.
She is the type of overpowered character a fan would write into Star Wars to be a proxy for themselves. It's a symptom of the lazy writing that Force Awakens displays quite often.

>good at everything

-its established that her memories havr been fucked with, she has actual training in some form of combat
-lives on her own for her entire young life, learns skills yo survive
-works with all types of junk craft
-hotwires the space equivalent of a giant junkyard truck
-is force sensitive, which isnt a new concept

Literally nothing she does is just "her being the best at this out of nowhere"

kek literally your whole post undermines any criticism of the post you're replying to.

See
She is not a mary sue, get over it

>wahhh mary sue!
>I'm gonna ignore the gary stu qualities of Luke in ANH because that doesnt fit into my argument
>wahhhh

>For reasons unexplained she has expert level fighting skills, ace piloting skills, and advance force skills.
If you go with the Rey Skywalker theory, piloting and mechanical skills run in the family.
At the end of ANH Luke makes an almost impossible bombing run without any real training whatsoever.
And Anakin builds his own fucking droid when he's like seven.
Her fighting skills can be explained through her strong connection to the force, plus it's highly likely that she had to defend herself many times before in the hostile environment she grew up in.

>such as what would stress a hyperdrive.
She worked on the Falcon before for that fat alien guy.

>Add to this that every established character, Han; Chewy; and Leia, take a quick liking to her
Rey reminds Han of the child he lost.
Rey and Leia just hug once because they're both grieving over Han.

>All this b8 in the thread

It's like I went fishing desu

>-its established that her memories havr been fucked with, she has actual training in some form of combat
Not in lightsaber combat. Kylo Ren was a sith apprentice who murdered all of luke's students, let gets his ass kicked by someone who never used a saber before? that is bs, it's like anakin beating maul in ep1
>-lives on her own for her entire young life, learns skills yo survive
Learning how to use a jedi weapon isn't one of those skills. also, the 3 thieves she beat ups o easily also had rough lives.
>-works with all types of junk craft
Doesn't explain how, on her first time flying the falcon (having never flown a similar ship) she can outmaneuver3 TIE fighters.
>-hotwires the space equivalent of a giant junkyard truck
No, she is able to diagnose the problem with the unique ship before han solo and chewie, who have flown it for over 30 years.
>-is force sensitive, which isnt a new concept
You're right, it's not a new concept. what is a new concept is learning abotu the force and 2 hours later using jedi mind tricks and telekinesis, as well as fighting with a lightsaber (which you need to be very adept at the force to do)

So you didn't even look at the image. Nice.

>If you go with the Rey Skywalker theory, piloting and mechanical skills run in the family.
Anakin had been racing pods for his childhood and was a general and pilot and in the clone wars. Rey instantly knows how to fly and outmaneouvre 3 TIE fighters in a ship she never flew before.
>At the end of ANH Luke makes an almost impossible bombing run without any real training whatsoever.
Thanks to the guidance of Kenobi.And he did have training, it was established earlier. Luke had been taking flight lessons because he wanted to be an imperial fighter pilot.
>And Anakin builds his own fucking droid when he's like seven.
Kids that age can build computers irl, droids aren't much different in the SW universe i imagine

Word count is nearly up but your other points are refutable

>She worked on the Falcon before for that fat alien guy.
Han and Chewie flew the ship for 30 years, they should have been able to diagnose the problem before her
>Rey and Leia just hug once because they're both grieving over Han.
She completely ignores Chewbacca who just lost his best friend, who he owed a life debt to. Leia decides instead to console a girl she met earlier that day for about 10 minutes

>Anakin had been racing pods for his childhood and was a general and pilot and in the clone wars
Yeah he was an ace pod pilot as a little kid, and even joined a space battle. He even know good tricks like spinning. Makes total sense.
>Luke had been taking flight lessons because he wanted to be an imperial fighter pilot.
That's not in the movie.
Plus why would he learn how to pilot an X-Wing in an Imperial flight school?

>Kids that age can build computers irl, droids aren't much different in the SW universe i imagine
So building droids or maintaining a pod racer is like Lego but maintaining a ship requires an expert?
Why don't you stop pulling shit out of your ass?

>Han and Chewie flew the ship for 30 years, they should have been able to diagnose the problem before her
The problem was due to the later modifications.
Rey was already familiar with them because she helped making them in the first place.

>She completely ignores Chewbacca who just lost his best friend,
She's a woman, she sees a crying girl in need of consoling and hugs her.
Nothing weird about that.

>Yeah he was an ace pod pilot as a little kid, and even joined a space battle. He even know good tricks like spinning. Makes total sense.
Did you watch the movie? It's made clear that the ship is on auto pilot and R2 is the one flying it for most of the time. AS soon as anakin puts it on manual control, he crash lands

>That's not in the movie.
Yes it is,Luke mentions it. And it's established that the X-wing has a similar design to Luke's T-16, which he 'used to bullseye womp rats' with. So it's established he's a good shot/pilot
>So building droids or maintaining a pod racer is like Lego but maintaining a ship requires an expert?
Protocol droids were mass produced and relatively simple droids (in the SW universe). It is established they are like Lego when Anakin gives Threepio vision by plugging in the eye, so simply. The Millennium Falcon is a unique design and a ship that is capable of going into hyperspace without one of those rings. It is more complicated.

Irl I can build computers, I can't repair 747s.

>She's a woman, she sees a crying girl in need of consoling and hugs her.
>Nothing weird about that.
It is weird. She should go to her friend Chewie instead of a stranger.
>Rey was already familiar with them because she helped making them in the first place.
She already told Han about the compressor, he should have been the one to fix it

>The Millennium Falcon is a unique design
It isn't. It's a standard freighter with heavy modifications.
And Rey was already familiar with the ship, and worked on it.

>It is established they are like Lego when Anakin gives Threepio vision by plugging in the eye, so simply.
Most of Reys work on the Falcon was also just plugging and unplugging shit and hitting some switches.
And there's a world of difference of reconnecting a lost limb and building a robot from scratch.

>It's made clear that the ship is on auto pilot and R2 is the one flying it for most of the time. AS soon as anakin puts it on manual control, he crash lands
He still does extremely well considering he's a little kid and he never flew a space ship before

>Yes it is,Luke mentions it.
No, he wanted to go but he was never allowed to.

>And it's established that the X-wing has a similar design to Luke's T-16
It isn't even a space ship, just the controls are similar.

>pulls piece off the ship while in the middle of hyperspace
>hurr durr I bypassed the compressor

>There is no longer balance to the force
there never has and never will be it's always a shifting balance, never an equilibrium because force users are organics that die.

If you are poisoned then your body is thrown out of balance. Restoring the balance means eliminating the dark side.

the prophesy said he would destroy the sith yet another one pops up after 30 years?

Technically Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith, though they might as well be.

Sith don't go around telling everyone that they're Sith. If Snoke had told Kylo that he was a Sith there's no way he would've taken him for a mentor.

I think he means like put 1 tank in a room versus 100 unarmed me? who wins? other then that this is all to retarded for me to grasp

Balance is idealism eg. Like economic equilibrium. It is never met just worked towards. Balance is theoretical in every sense. Every action summed will "balance" but at any point there is no balance. Economics is the force

But what was the point of the prophesy then? Anakin was the chosen one yet the balance only lasted 30 years? TFA should have been st like 500 years after Ep6 IMO

>Kylo Ren gets his ass kicked

I dont know what movie you fucking watched, but Finn nearly died, Rey was nearly emotionally broken and just waving a lightsaber around at a dude who was just shot in the goddamn groin ten minutes ago by a wookie bowcaster.

Rey can use stick like handheld weapons, its really not that surprising that shes good with waving a saber around

Maybe if you are an autist, these are problems for you

Yes, Finn nearly died. However, it's stupid that an untrained space janitor managed to wound Ren. And Rey defeated Ren , a trained sith apprentice, having never used a lightsaber before. And bashing around a stick isn't the same as a lightsaber lmao, it's not even the same shape or size

Ep 8 will explain it all

Depends on the definition of balance, force, dark side, light side etc. If the force is neutral, then there must be dark and light. If the force is light, then there also must be dark. Unless balanced is defined differently in star wars, destroying the Sith is not balancing the force. Or if the Sith existence tip the scale in favor of the dark side as opposed to the once thousands of Jedi and destroying the Sith brings the dark side back to natural levels whereas all the Jedi don't affect the scale at all in terms of force/light.

>If Snoke had told Kylo that he was a Sith there's no way he would've taken him for a mentor.
I mean, Sheev did the exact same thing to Anakin and he came around, albeit only after Sheev lured him with false info about how to "save" Padme. I didn't like Kylo's portrayal but I'm interested to see where his story arc leads in VIII and IX.

Except she has used a lightsaber before, in a deus ex machina all her training came back to her during her fight. So her training plus finns wound plus the bowcaster wound helped her defeat Kylo

>Except she has used a lightsaber before
That's speculation, it is never directly implied

A lightsaber is literally just a handheld sword...are you sperging this hard that Rey (being already proficient in handheld weapons) can use the force and get lucky on a poorly trained, heavily wounded sith-wannabe?

Kylo isnt a sith apprentice. Hes more a dark jedi who uses the dark side. He is not a sith.

> Episode VII: Everything's Really Great Now
> The Empire has been defeated
> There's no threat to the New Republic
> Leia is a Jedi Master who sips tea with Luke at a galactic assisted care facility
> Han has gone legit, and Action Blasting Han Solo action figures made by Lando are the most popular toy in the galaxy
> A self taught Jedi with an eight grade education knows everything about the Force
> The phrase "The prophecy from the Prequel Trilogy is complete" is said verbatim at least three times
> Maz Kanata collects Christmas lights instead of lightsabers

Your movie sucks, user.

until this day i still don't get how and why TFA is not OFFICIALLY called "Star Wars Episode VII".

its official title is just "Star Wars: The Force Awakens", its weird.

No it's not. At least according to George Lucas (you know, the creator of star wars)

The movie should have been set hundreds of years after ep6 . There was no reason to revisit these old characters other than nostalgia

Homage I guess to how ANH wasnt titled "star wars, IV" in theaters during initial release. It was just " star wars", THEN ANH

I took the Kylo/Finn part of the duel as Kylo fucking with Finn, and when Finn landed a lucky blow on Kylo he straight up rekt him soon after. It mirrors the Cloud City duel where Luke is on the run from Vader most of the time, then taps him on the shoulder and proceeds to get his hand sliced off. For Rey's part, both she and Kylo are emotional wrecks, her with fear and maybe some anger, him with having to kill his dad (more on that in a bit) and getting shot. Kylo clearly has the upper hand until he baits Rey into thinking about joining him and learning from him. It triggers a sort of "oh wait, the Force" moment in Rey, where she is able to compose herself and fight back decently. Yes, a lightsaber's weight and design is different from a quarterstaff, but Rey's past is super vague enough that you could BS an argument about her having combat training at Luke's academy before getting her mind messes with and sent to Jakku. Additionally, Rey probably heard stories about the Force/Luke/Jedi and their powers while on Jakku, which does give her some idea of what the Force can help you do. That's why she earnestly asks Han about all those legends she heard. To a lonely junk rat scavenger on a hostile desert world, those stories are an escape and sort of hope she can find solace in.
With Kylo killing Han, I don't see a way out of that. I don't think Kylo will get rully redeemed since patricide is a huge no-no in many cultures, with the outcome usually being a curse by the gods/supernatural elements laid on you. I think he'll continue with his internal struggle of trying to be a Sith but it's all gonna go south for him by the end of the trilogy. Thoughts on that?

Please explain to me how they are not just plasma swords "rarely" used in actual combat (given the word for word lore ofnthe OT trilogy, and from Lucas's own mouth), and why Rey, a person who USES HANDHELD WEAPONS, somehow has to go full fucking retard just to please your autism?

youtube.com/watch?v=3ViKvHkNyqE

I pretty much agree 100

>There was no reason to revisit these old characters other than nostalgia

You're either a moron or autistic. Either way, you don't know how peoples' emotions work.

not an argument.

None of this is. Its opinions dumbfuck

not an argument

It's shit speculation at that. Rey was dropped on Jakku at age 5. She never held a lightsaber or trained even at that young age, because she never fucking interacted with Luke. We now know that shit didn't go down until just 6 years before TFA, and Rey was on Jakku long before that. For what reason would Luke let his daughter/padawan get abandoned on a shit planet when nothing had gone wrong yet?

Former padawan Rey and Rey Skywalker are pretty much dead and buried. The narrative would have to bend over backwards, sideways, and all the way around to make it make sense now.

Agreed. JJ really put Rian Johnson in a shit situation.

Because that's exactly what happened. He destroyed Finn, and Finn got in a single lucky hit. People like to complain, but everything about Rey's win and Kylo's defeat was perfectly explained and in character. Just because someone doesn't like the explanation, doesn't mean it's not there.

As for Kylo's redemption, I think it's pretty much guaranteed. The whole story is way too dark otherwise. Han died for nothing, Leia and Luke are miserable. Why would they do that to them, in this series with redemption and good triumphs over all at its heart?

And on top of that, there's no interesting story in "Kylo gets darker". Especially since he already did the worst thing he could possibly do in the very first fucking movie, and he STILL didn't go full yellow-eyed dark side. We could see him blow up the whole damn galaxy and it still wouldn't have the same effect Han's death did, on him or the audience.

There's really nowhere to go but up for his character if they want his storyline to be compelling. The only question is whether he dies at the end, or they let him live on for future media to differentiate him more from Vader.

It's not that, it's that Rey Skywalker was never supposed to be a thing. Her not being a Skywalker is a twist in itself, because they definitely knew that most people would assume she was.

>Han died for nothing, Leia and Luke are miserable. Why would they do that to them, in this series with redemption and good triumphs over all at its heart?
Because they needed Harrison Ford back for the movie and the only way he was going to agree was if they killed him off, lord knows he sure as hell wasn't coming back for 2 more movies. They need that "shocking" event that would get people talking about the movie and all the pieces fell into place. As for its significance from a story point it gives Rey an actual personal reason to hate Kylo and the bad guys because she latched onto Han as a surrogate father-figure almost immediately, whereas before she really didn't have any ties to the main conflict.

Also they've still got 2 movies and Luke wasn't even really in this one, so we've still got lots to learn about the current state of the galaxy and characters, something which TFA seemed to go out of its way to avoid talking about.