What are you listening to and what do you think of it?
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this
>what do i think of it?
Its fucking great, threadgill is just so fucking unique. also in this group he made his drummers tune so between the two of them they had al 12 pitches, makes the band sound huge. Fred Hopkins is an incredible bassist.
this - I saw Lloyd live last year, so no surprises to how this live album sounds
I like some of his playing - especially those breathy runs he does, but overall it's pretty average
The Lester Young - Teddy Wilson Quartet - Pres and Teddy
Never really got into Swing, the rhythm section (Gene Ramey on bass & Jo Jones) sounds incredible, complemented by some great smooth and intricate solos by Lester Young on Tenor, all this accompanied by some masterful playing by Teddy Wilson on Piano manage to create a fluid and gorgeous Swing album.
Gonna need to listen to this one a couple more times, but after the first listen. I'm blown away by the players - especially Lester Young's Tenor. Highly recommend this one.
I like it even more than Today's Opinion due to how much more the African inspired rhythms/percussion/vocal stuff is integrated into the music while still maintaining the fast, varied improvisations of Today's Opinion that I loved so much.
Gonna relisten Paavo - Paavo later, remember it being good, no clue otherwise.
Listened to Blacksheep's self-titled. It's a Japanese jazz band of baritone sax, piano and trombone; there are 3 other albums, but I can't find them, however it was really good and unsame-y or boring for relatively longish pieces.
Anybody like David Kikoski? I've listened to pic related, Presage, Combinations and his new release from this year. The piano playing on all of them is pretty incredible. Anybody have any other favorites of his?
Getting into Joe Henderson. What do people think is his best album? I've heard some people say he was a better sideman than a leader- anybody agree or disagree and what is his best appearance as a sideman?
He had a great streak with the albums he wrote, Page One and Our Thing were always favourites of mine, In 'n Out and Mode for Joe are always stellar albums. As for his best appearance as a sideman, I'd personally go with Andrew Hill - Black Fire or Grant Green - Idle Moments.
I semi-agree that his best appearances are as a sideman, but to say that his albums, when he lead, aren't as good is ridiculous. They are more than worth listening to.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Idle Moments is great but I haven't heard Black Fire so I will add that to my list.
No worries, he has a lot of great albums he appeared on.
The Horace Silver Quintet - Song for My Father
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder
Pete La Roca - Basra
Larry Young - Unity
Just to name a few, he's fantastic on pretty much every release I listed. In general, he could adapt very well to different styles and always managed to perform consistently, he's got some fantastic solos too - my absolute favourite would be this solo youtube.com
I don't have too much old jazz, from him I have only '65's Inner Urge, which was good.
That album is great but I like TO better. I think the compositions are better, probably because he pretty much limits himself to just the acoustic sextet. No gimmicks. Or very few anyway.
Dave is one of the best. Maybe not my favorite pianist but undoubtedly one of the most technically gifted. He does shit in his solos that almost nobody else can really do and makes it sound absolutely effortless.
His albums as a leader are good (check out The Maze if you haven't) but don't sleep on other people's records that he plays on. Specifically Unseen Universe by Conrad Herwig, every single one of Dave's solos on that is a masterpiece as well as some great comping behind the other soloists. Prints or Steppin Zone by Alex Sipiagin are also great as are any of the Opus 5 albums he's done (Progression is the best though)
bumping with some good shit
All his Blue Note albums are pretty great, though they also all have some flaws. Personally I tend to think his best is Mode for Joe. The larger ensemble gives his compositions a little more depth. Multiple is also a great album if you like fusion.
I think you can make the argument that he makes a better sideman than leader, but I think that's more to do with the fact that he played on some incredible records than to do with his records being bad or anything. It's usually a treat to hear him on any Blue Note record. His ones with Andrew Hill are some of the best.
>though they also all have some flaws.
Like what? Thanks for the recs btw
bump
was tipped to this by Sup Forums ... thanks!
this is really good but everytime i post it no one listens to it so bumping with Mal
excellent album
hail Dorham anyway
>What are you listening to and what do you think of it?
Gary Burton's New Vibe Man in Town. I came for the Joe Morello feature, and he doesn't disappoint. I love the feel he has for which part of the kit to use where for a line or accent and the very seamless way his improvisations flow into the beat. His best stuff is with Brubeck for sure, but he does some mean stuff on here, he's an entertaining player to listen to in general for sure.
Gary was pretty great too. I know his later ECM stuff like Crystal Silence well enough, but I'd never heard him doing boppy stuff like this. I had a similar moment funny enough listening to some of Chick's early stuff too actually. Crazy how quickly guys like that changed their sound when fusion and post bop hit properly. It's like they were just entering the scene when the landscape completely shifted like it did when Bird and Diz came around and created the style they started in.
Where else to go for people that did like, an increased focus on composition eg. Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Wadada Leo Smith, and Henry Threadgill? I heard of the Muhal Richard Abrams guy, where do I start with him? Anyone else?
Check out Gunther Schuller and John Lewis' Jazz Abstractions. Not exactly in the style of any of the guys you listed (though Ornette himself is on two tracks) but it's a brilliantly composed and performed work with some top jazz guys essentially playing free works composed sort of like classical music. You'll never hear Jim Hall and Bill Evans playing anything remotely like this anywhere else either....
More like this? It's so mesmerising
Well I forget where I read this, but someone once wrote that if you take the individual tracks from all of Henderson's Blue Note records and re-group them, you could end up with one amazing hard bop album, one amazing Latin jazz album, and like two amazing post-bop/modal jazz albums. I thought that was pretty insightful.
I think you could argue that he went for variety on his albums, exploring many of his different interests, rather than the consistency and continuity which, arguably, makes for a better album- like some of Wayne Shorter's best albums for example. Also I think on most of his albums there's usually one or two tunes that aren't quite as strong as the rest of the pieces on the record. It's been a while since I listened to any of them all the way through so I don't really remember specifics- but like I think there's just kind of an average sounding blues on "Our Thing" that everyone sounds kind of uninspired on.
Chico Hamilton
Jimmy Giuffre
Andrew Hill
Steve Lacy
George Lewis
Anthony Braxton
Pierre Dorge
David Murray
David Binney
Yosvany Terry
Dave Douglas
David Virelles
...
Rec me albums with only piano, drum and double bass familia
Emphasis on the drums if possible, especially if using brushes.
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Oleg Butman - Passion, he's the drummer so there's most emphasis there; there's a trumpeter, though.
This
bump with an upcoming release that looks like it will be good
>Vijay Iyer
>looks good
Just look at the lineup
>Graham Haynes
>Steve Lehman
>Mark Shim
>Stephan Crump
>Tyshawn Sorey
Probably going to be his best album yet
Also new Tim Berne snakeoil album out in the fall
Will jazz ever move on beyond horn, keys, upright bass, and a drumset? I feel that if it accommodated for more timbre through more instruments/effects akin to post-ww2 classical, it would expand so much further.
I think part of the problem is that form and content are two sides of the same coin. That is to say, the referent of the signifier "jazz" is equally inseparable from both its sonic/instrumental and music-theoretical characteristics.
>Iyers best album yet
still not interested, sorey and lehman should just make a duo album and make Iyer watch.
As you point out, timbral exploration has already been done to death. I'm much more interested in what a jazz composer can do with in a small, bare-bones ensemble. It's easy to create interesting sounds when you've got 65 instruments at your disposal, but it's pretty cool when you can do it with just 5.
Anyway, you're forgetting about trombone, guitar, vibraphone, clarinet and many other instruments that are still widely used in jazz.
Don't sleep on Shim. He's for real.
David Virelles also has a new album coming out in the Fall called Gnosis. Haven't seen cover art for it yet though.
You all need the real book. That is how you learn jazz, you sit and follow along on YouTube and thats how you learn how to sight read and how the flow of jazz works.
>timbral exploration has already been done to death
I don't think so. Sure you had a group of guys who did fusion that added some rock music and world music sounds, but that's it. Even then, a whole of that also kinda watered down jazz and we didn't get to hear people do weird cool shit like we have with instruments like trumpet/sax in jazz. There's very little done electronically to the extent where most of what's considered "jazz" in the electronic realm isn't really even jazz at all, and follow a more simplistic popular electronic music structure.
>I'm much more interested in what a jazz composer can do with in a small, bare-bones ensemble.
And this hasn't been done before? Jazz has been mostly this since bebop.
>I don't think so.
No I'm talking about how it's already been done in classical music.
Anyway my point is that sure you can combine a bunch of odd instruments to get weird sounds that might sound funny in a jazz context but those are just cheap tricks if the underlying composition isn't good.
Besides, most jazz musicians like to play their music live and be flexible about their music. It's going to be really difficult to play more than a couple live shows if you need a huge, rotating combination of various instrumentalists to play each piece. It makes much more sense to a jazz musician to write a piece that can be played on the fly by a trio, quartet, quintet, or sextet depending on who's available for the gig that night.
In the end, relying too much on timbre to make your music interesting is a crutch.
But wouldn't it be something totally different in the realm of jazz? A lot of instruments jazz brought new sounds out of had existed/been used in classical forever. Sure, timbre reliance can be a crutch for those that are stuck onto gimmicks. But it can also be a way to expand one's improvisational language. One of the things that got me into jazz was Coltrane playing something so abrasive on the sax that it sounded like a person crying or screaming; I was a former sax player at the time and I didn't even know that was possible, and it works in his stuff so well every time he does do that.
Well sure timbral creativity on your instrument can add a lot of possibilities to improvisation. That's really not related to your original point though. Plenty of players have explored the limits of pretty much all the typical jazz instruments ever since Coltrane's time. And they still do.
Even then, that can be a crutch. There are certain European saxophonists who have become quite well-known for making goofy sounds on their horn despite the fact that they've seemingly never played an interesting idea in their life.
>That's really not related to your original point though. Plenty of players have explored the limits of pretty much all the typical jazz instruments ever since Coltrane's time. And they still do.
That's why I said try something like that outside the typical jazz instruments. Electronics for example allow a player to be far more serial with their sound, which widely opens up the range of improvisation possible.
>Even then, that can be a crutch. There are certain European saxophonists who have become quite well-known for making goofy sounds on their horn despite the fact that they've seemingly never played an interesting idea in their life.
Sure, but any/all ideas can be used like shit. This one's a big reason why I can't do European free jazz.
>That's why I said try something like that outside the typical jazz instruments.
Like what? Probably someone somewhere is doing it. Then again, once you get to a certain point of instrumentalists using extended techniques with instruments that are not typically "jazz instruments" and then what makes it jazz at that point?
>Electronics for example allow a player to be far more serial with their sound, which widely opens up the range of improvisation possible.
Lots of jazz players are experimenting with electronics. It's really nothing new either. In my opinion actually, too many players are starting to use electronics as a crutch or a gimmick.
haha oh shit, i looked at his wikipedia and hes from my hometown so i guess i gotta check him out. any reccs?
This is now a Jake Paul general
All haters of Jake Paul and Team 10 will be furiously dabbed on
Oh I had no idea he lived in Richmond. He recorded some records for Blue Note in the 90's one with Geri Allen. Other than that he's sick on Luis Perdomo's "Infancia Project." My favorite.
>Like what?
Idk, and that's why I am wondering to begin with.
>Then again, once you get to a certain point of instrumentalists using extended techniques with instruments that are not typically "jazz instruments" and then what makes it jazz at that point?
Since when did the instruments determine whether it's jazz or not? Like, this is the dumbest shit; it's not like you call a pop song jazz because it has a trumpet based hook.
>Lots of jazz players are experimenting with electronics. It's really nothing new either. In my opinion actually, too many players are starting to use electronics as a crutch or a gimmick.
You got those guys like Escreet and Sipiagin who are adding electro acoustic sounds, but those are more of an aside to their main stuff which is still pretty standard jazz affair. Then there's something like that record Tigran Hamasyan was on last year (Atmospheres) where all the sampling manipulation led to was just drone ambient made by trumpet/guitar/piano. There's the nu-jazz/jazz-hop/whatever it's called that not really even jazz just hip hop sounding beats with horns and occasional jazz inspired phrases. None of these actually take it to the next level in terms of integrating into jazz. What about surrounding soloists with mics each with different settings which are under the control of the player itself that can create spatial delay effects? Something like that can further expand a Coltrane sheets of sound style playing for example, among other things as well.
yeah, apperently he did the same high school program as me. i feel superior now. thanks a lot man, ill check this out! but yeah he went to VCU, i guess when Ellis Marsalis was still the department head. Ive heard many a tales of those good ol days.
Have you heard this? im liking it so far.
>Since when did the instruments determine whether it's jazz or not? Like, this is the dumbest shit
Like it or not, that's part of what makes jazz. Take a saxophone, a trumpet, an upright bass, and drums and tell the players to just make as much noise as possible and pretty much agree to call it free jazz. Take a French horn, a viola, a ukulele, and a pair of Taiko drums and tell them to make as much noise as possible and most people probably wouldn't associate that with jazz.
David Binney is doing some of that kind of stuff with electronics. I'm not sure how exactly it works but on his latest album there's a section where the players can all trigger some kind of electronic effects with their instruments and improvising together in that way. It's interesting I suppose though the end result is just sort of a mess. Probably others are doing it too but I don't know that much about it.
Yeah it's good but I remember liking the one with that Geri Allen is on better. I always liked Shim's sound though. It's surprising to me that he hasn't done more as a sideman.
>and pretty much agree to call it free jazz.
*and pretty much everybody will agree to call it free jazz
man, speaking of Geri Allen. What a shame she passed on recently. she was a beautiful musician. rest in power.
Yeah. I have never really listened to her all that much but I'm always impressed when I hear her on someone's record. I saw her at the Vanguard several years ago with Ravi Coltrane and that was fantastic.
ah man, im sad ill never get to see her. Have you heard the Charlie Haden record Etudes? thats a good one with her.
Yeah that's the record of hers that I'm the most familiar with by far. Fantastic album.
anytime charlie and paul get together i love it.